<div>Richard,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Thank you for your well stated comments. Hopefully, we all stand by those</div>
<div>who are abused. I have enjoyed much of this thread and found the varying</div>
<div>opinions important to be aware of since this is a sensitive issue.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I do want to add that, not unlike the Mormons you mentioned,</div>
<div>Dr. Dirk Elzinga has dedicated much of his professional life to Indigenous </div>
<div>communities and has accomplished a great deal for Indigenous languages. </div>
<div>The community members I know who have worked with him have the highest </div>
<div>regard for the care and professionalism he consistently demonstrates and are </div>
<div>appreciative of the fact that he does not push his religion at them.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I do not support the policies of many Christian churches, and other religiions as</div>
<div>well, which condon and contribute to the opression of Indigenous people and which, in turn, </div>
<div>thus contribute heavily to language decline. -- much of this is still going on worldwide and we should all </div>
<div>be open to discussions that raise awareness about this issue.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>All of this points to the complexities and hard work demanded of language revitalization -- all the way from </div>
<div>the real daily work of language teaching, to the more complicated and deeply ingrained conflicting </div>
<div>ideologies which drive or detract from these efforts.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Susan</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br><br> </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Richard Smith <<a href="mailto:rzs@wildblue.net">rzs@wildblue.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Hi Mia,<br>thanks for the comments and for your view on these things.<br>Its not easy but i've been trying my hardest to NOT see things as "good and<br>
bad" but trying to understand what happens when different ideologies and<br>different beliefs strike sparks against one another.<br><br>I've seen "ugly" there on the Navajo Rez too, and in Bluff and Blanding.<br>
But i've also known Mormons like Bruce McGee who<br>grew up around Pinion and Keams Canyon, his father fluent in Navajo<br>as a trader. Bruce( a bishop) has dedicated his life to helping Native<br>Artists get recognition to make a living as artists and he works now at the<br>
Heard Museum in Phoenix. Also Leroy Garcia (a bishop) of Santa Fe who<br>own and operate Blue Rain Gallery, who spends his life promoting<br>us artists sparing no expense and always celebrating native cultures.<br><br>So i'm choosing to view the "sparks" that fly ...carefully<br>
But I WILL stand alongside people I see being abused.<br>I've had to do a little "calm mediation" between strangers when i see<br>women being mistreated by "boyfriends"....several times.<br>My experience is that a calm-strong stand by a womans side can unnerve<br>
a verbal abuser , allowing him to hear how foolish he sounds<br>when he is "the sound of only one voice yelling"<br><br>Calm can do amazing things in volatile situations<br>(actually I was calmly prepared to kick out the guys knee)<br>
When we look into paths of rebuilding,rekindling....and revitalization,<br>we can choose to look at a ruin as a sad wreck or a monument.<br><br>But whatever, rebuilding is still hard work!<br><br>Richard Zane Smith<br>Wyandotte, Oklahoma<br>
<br><br><br><br><br>On 2/25/08 2:51 PM, "Mia Kalish" <<a href="mailto:MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US">MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US</a>> wrote:<br><br>> Wow. Have we posted a count lately on how many versions of the bible we have<br>
> written in different languages?<br>> Have we counted how many Hawaiians and Polynesians - and American Indians<br>> for that matter - died because missionaries had entirely the wrong idea<br>> about clothing, associating it with some constructed view of morality rather<br>
> than the need to maintain a comfortable and safe body temperature?<br>> Have we counted how many people, especially women, have been made to feel<br>> "less than" because they had a child out of wedlock, or because they didn't<br>
> want to dominated by their husbands?<br>> Religion has always, always, always contributed to social and linguistic<br>> hegemony, whether people - Dr?/Mr? Elzinga included - want to admit it.<br>> And speaking specifically of Mormons? I am here on Navajo, and I can't count<br>
> the number of people who don't know who they are socially, culturally,<br>> historically and linguistically because they were taken away as children and<br>> placed - Specifically - in Mormon homes.<br>> And I might add, from personal experience, these are some of the nastiest<br>
> and cruelest people I have ever met. Is it a function of Mormon - where I<br>> have been told educated MEN have the most power, especially over women (so<br>> you can guess how I think and feel about that!) - I don't know. I think it<br>
> is a matter of proselytizing justifying its behaviors to the hurt of others.<br>><br>> So Dirk Mr/Dr Elzinga, I am sure there are a lot of lists where people talk<br>> about how great the idea of changing language and culture by immersion of<br>
> white religious ideas into the bibles was and still is. But they aren't this<br>> one.<br>> By the way, I'm Jewish, and my idea of Christ doesn't even come close to<br>> what the white mythics constructed in the name of power, destruction and<br>
> often just pure meanness.<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> Mia<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:<a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a>]<br>
</div>
<div class="Ih2E3d">> On Behalf Of Dirk Elzinga<br>> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:05 AM<br>> To: <a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a><br>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<br>
><br></div>> Oh, for Pete's sake.<br>><br>> I signed on to this list to listen to, and engage in discussion about<br>> indigenous languages and techonology (that is the list name, after<br>> all). A discussion of my religious beliefs (I am a member of the<br>
> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the religion whose name<br>> you seem to be stepping around) isn't appropriate in this context,<br>> nor does it contribute to the list's purpose. There are any number of<br>
> Mormon-bashing blogs and websites you can visit if that's your thing.<br>><br>> Dirk Elzinga<br>> --<br>> Department of Linguistics and English Language<br>> Brigham Young University<br>> 4043 JFSB<br>
> Provo, UT 84602<br>> 801.422.2117<br>> <a href="mailto:Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu">Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu</a><br>><br>> On Feb 16, 2008, at 10:29 AM, MJ Hardman wrote:<br>><br>>> "Assimilation" is a mild way to say it. And as to Republican<br>
>> candidates --<br>>> the drop-out -- that religion does indeed hold as a dogma that the<br>>> US was<br>>> founded in order for the true church to be reestablished & thus,<br>>> yes, the US<br>
>> belongs to white people, who have come to bring the Native<br>>> Americans back<br>>> into the fold, after they transgressed (explained in one of their<br>>> sacred<br>>> books) and thus were made dark -- the fold of the white folks, of<br>
>> course.<br>>> The Native Americans aren't as dark as blacks, whose transgression was<br>>> worse, being descendants of Cain, though they have now been<br>>> forgiven and can<br>>> be brought into the fold. Since Native Americans are all from the<br>
>> lost<br>>> tribes of Israel, they have been rapidly welcomed into the fold,<br>>> including<br>>> by adoptions whenever possible.<br>>><br>>> And if what I wrote above sounds psychotic -- well, Mia, it's what<br>
>> they do<br>>> indeed believe. They soft-pedal a lot of it for outsiders, they<br>>> are *very*<br>>> concerned about 'image' -- they are, after all, selling a<br>>> religion. It was<br>
>> scary. And what scares me now is the vice-presidency.<br>>><br>>> MJ<br>>><br>>> On 2/14/08 3:08 PM, "Mia Kalish" <<a href="mailto:MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US">MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>>><br>>>> There IS a tradition of "assimilation," usually no matter what it<br>>>> takes to<br>>>> get there. There was a story . . . Carolyn, Harrington's ex-wife,<br>
>>> found<br>>>> papers in California that demonstrated the Indians were being<br>>>> "baptized" by<br>>>> 1st, clubbing them over the head until they were senseless and<br>>>> couldn't<br>
>>> protest, and 2nd, being carried to the baptismal ceremony by their<br>>>> guards,<br>>>> who also functioned as the witnesses or whatever they call them.<br>>>> The whole purpose of the boarding schools was to take children<br>
>>> away from the<br>>>> influence of their families and cultures so they would grow up<br>>>> "white."<br>>>> I think the fact that they wrote this is very Freudian: People are<br>
>>> admitting, albeit subconsciously, that they are deliberately<br>>>> interfering<br>>>> with the lives of others.<br>>>><br>>>> I heard a speech the other day by one of those Republicans who<br>
>>> dropped out<br>>>> of the presidential race, and he actually seemed to believe that this<br>>>> country "belongs" to white people. He had no understanding or<br>>>> recognition of<br>
>>> the fact that colonizers engaged in active and sustained genocide<br>>>> to kill<br>>>> the people who were living here originally. And by the way, he had<br>>>> all these<br>>>> statistics of the number of "out of wedlock" births by people of<br>
>>> color.<br>>>> Implicit in this is the cultural moré that womens' only function<br>>>> in life is<br>>>> to take care of men. (NOT.)<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>>><br>>>> Mia<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>>>> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology<br>>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a>]<br>
</div>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>>> On Behalf Of Richard Smith<br>>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:40 PM<br>>>> To: <a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a><br>>>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<br>
>>><br></div>>>> yeah,<br>>>> did you catch that....? "a Tradition of Assimilation"<br>>>> wow...amazing... we have traditionalists in office!<br>>>> By the way...who's "tradition of assimilation?"<br>
>>><br>>>> richard zane smith<br>>>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> On 2/11/08 8:55 AM, "phil cash cash" <<a href="mailto:cashcash@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU">cashcash@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>>> Momentum Building for Oklahoma Official English Bill<br>>>>><br>>>> <a href="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/" target="_blank">http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/</a><br>
>>> story/02-11<br>>>> -2<br>>>>> 008/0004753576&EDATE=<br>>>>><br>>>>> ~~~<br>>>>><br>>>>> While there seems to be respect for Native American languages,<br>
>>>> these are<br>>>> the<br>>>>> words of legislators behind the English-only bill in the Oklahoma<br>>>>> state<br>>>>> legislature:<br>>>>><br>>>>> "...maintain a tradition of assimilation through our<br>
>>>> common language of English."<br>>>>><br>>>>> It seems hard to reconcile this position with Native American<br>>>>> language<br>>>>> preservation. Though I imagine the architects of such<br>
>>>> legislation view NA<br>>>>> languages as "preservation at a distance".<br>>>>><br>>>>> l8ter,<br>>>>><br>>>>> Phil<br>>>>> UofA<br>
>>><br>>><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>____________________________________________________________<br>Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.<br><br>Department of English (Primary) <br>American Indian Language Development Institute (AILDI)<br>
Second Language Acquisition & Teaching Ph.D. Program (SLAT)<br>Department of Language,Reading and Culture<br>Department of Linguistics<br>The Southwest Center (Research)<br>Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836<br><br><br>
"Every language is an old-growth forest of the mind, a watershed of thought, an ecosystem of spiritual possibilities." <br> <br> Wade Davis...(on a Starbucks cup...)