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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'>
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'> Is it
true that Mormans believe we natives are the lost children of Israel and if we
are converted to mormanism, It elevates the converter to a more special or
higer place in heaven? Also will the converter
be placed higher than the lost child. If so I think it is a selfish practice
that needs to be abandoned, to look at someone elses beliefs as less than your
own is selfish, especially if it is thought to elevate oneself in Creator's
eyes. Wow! This discussion is pertinent to this site because I do believe if it
were not for religion we would not be scrambling to help our languages flourish.
</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'> When an
oppressive religion takes over, native languages become fragmented, once
converted to an oppressors language or religion, what once was a part of the
native language becomes set aside, thought of as evil, not passed on, something
to fear, what makes a language beautiful and special is its deep conection to its
own unique way of describing its beliefs about its own culture its own world
view its own spirituality. </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'> Language
is the paint creator gave to our soul to depict the world around us, and if
another thinks I may need more colors on my pallet I would say he must be color
blind, creator gave me all the paint I need, we call it nslxcin.</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'>xwistsmxikn</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'>Ted
Moomaw</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face="Lucida Sans Unicode"><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans Unicode";color:black'> </span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Indigenous Languages and
Technology [mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Susan Penfield<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, February 26, 2008
9:44 AM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [ILAT] traditions of
assimilation...</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Richard,</span></font></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Thank you for your well stated comments. Hopefully, we
all stand by those</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>who are abused. I have enjoyed much of this thread and
found the varying</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>opinions important to be aware of since this is a
sensitive issue.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I do want to add that, not unlike the Mormons you
mentioned,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Dr. Dirk Elzinga has dedicated much of his
professional life to Indigenous </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>communities and has accomplished a great deal for
Indigenous languages. </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>The community members I know who have worked with him
have the highest </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>regard for the care and professionalism he
consistently demonstrates and are </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>appreciative of the fact that he does not push his
religion at them.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I do not support the policies of many Christian
churches, and other religiions as</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>well, which condon and contribute to the
opression of Indigenous people and which, in turn, </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>thus contribute heavily to language
decline. -- much of this is still going on worldwide and we should all </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>be open to discussions that raise awareness about this
issue.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>All of this points to the complexities and hard
work demanded of language revitalization -- all the way from </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>the real daily work of language teaching, to the more
complicated and deeply ingrained conflicting </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>ideologies which drive or detract from these efforts.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Susan</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Richard Smith <<a
href="mailto:rzs@wildblue.net">rzs@wildblue.net</a>> wrote:</span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Hi Mia,<br>
thanks for the comments and for your view on these things.<br>
Its not easy but i've been trying my hardest to NOT see things as "good
and<br>
bad" but trying to understand what happens when different ideologies and<br>
different beliefs strike sparks against one another.<br>
<br>
I've seen "ugly" there on the Navajo Rez too, and in Bluff and
Blanding.<br>
But i've also known Mormons like Bruce McGee who<br>
grew up around Pinion and Keams Canyon, his father fluent in Navajo<br>
as a trader. Bruce( a bishop) has dedicated his life to helping Native<br>
Artists get recognition to make a living as artists and he works now at the<br>
Heard Museum in Phoenix. Also Leroy Garcia (a bishop) of Santa Fe who<br>
own and operate Blue Rain Gallery, who spends his life promoting<br>
us artists sparing no expense and always celebrating native cultures.<br>
<br>
So i'm choosing to view the "sparks" that fly ...carefully<br>
But I WILL stand alongside people I see being abused.<br>
I've had to do a little "calm mediation" between strangers when i see<br>
women being mistreated by "boyfriends"....several times.<br>
My experience is that a calm-strong stand by a womans side can unnerve<br>
a verbal abuser , allowing him to hear how foolish he sounds<br>
when he is "the sound of only one voice yelling"<br>
<br>
Calm can do amazing things in volatile situations<br>
(actually I was calmly prepared to kick out the guys knee)<br>
When we look into paths of rebuilding,rekindling....and revitalization,<br>
we can choose to look at a ruin as a sad wreck or a monument.<br>
<br>
But whatever, rebuilding is still hard work!<br>
<br>
Richard Zane Smith<br>
Wyandotte, Oklahoma<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/25/08 2:51 PM, "Mia Kalish" <<a
href="mailto:MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US">MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
> Wow. Have we posted a count lately on how many versions of the bible we
have<br>
> written in different languages?<br>
> Have we counted how many Hawaiians and Polynesians - and American Indians<br>
> for that matter - died because missionaries had entirely the wrong idea<br>
> about clothing, associating it with some constructed view of morality
rather<br>
> than the need to maintain a comfortable and safe body temperature?<br>
> Have we counted how many people, especially women, have been made to feel<br>
> "less than" because they had a child out of wedlock, or because
they didn't<br>
> want to dominated by their husbands?<br>
> Religion has always, always, always contributed to social and linguistic<br>
> hegemony, whether people - Dr?/Mr? Elzinga included - want to admit it.<br>
> And speaking specifically of Mormons? I am here on Navajo, and I can't
count<br>
> the number of people who don't know who they are socially, culturally,<br>
> historically and linguistically because they were taken away as children
and<br>
> placed - Specifically - in Mormon homes.<br>
> And I might add, from personal experience, these are some of the nastiest<br>
> and cruelest people I have ever met. Is it a function of Mormon - where I<br>
> have been told educated MEN have the most power, especially over women (so<br>
> you can guess how I think and feel about that!) - I don't know. I think it<br>
> is a matter of proselytizing justifying its behaviors to the hurt of
others.<br>
><br>
> So Dirk Mr/Dr Elzinga, I am sure there are a lot of lists where people
talk<br>
> about how great the idea of changing language and culture by immersion of<br>
> white religious ideas into the bibles was and still is. But they aren't
this<br>
> one.<br>
> By the way, I'm Jewish, and my idea of Christ doesn't even come close to<br>
> what the white mythics constructed in the name of power, destruction and<br>
> often just pure meanness.</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>> Mia<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:<a
href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a>]</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>> On Behalf Of Dirk Elzinga<br>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:05 AM<br>
> To: <a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<br>
></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>> Oh, for Pete's sake.<br>
><br>
> I signed on to this list to listen to, and engage in discussion about<br>
> indigenous languages and techonology (that is the list name, after<br>
> all). A discussion of my religious beliefs (I am a member of the<br>
> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the religion whose name<br>
> you seem to be stepping around) isn't appropriate in this context,<br>
> nor does it contribute to the list's purpose. There are any number of<br>
> Mormon-bashing blogs and websites you can visit if that's your thing.<br>
><br>
> Dirk Elzinga<br>
> --<br>
> Department of Linguistics and English Language<br>
> Brigham Young University<br>
> 4043 JFSB<br>
> Provo, UT 84602<br>
> 801.422.2117<br>
> <a href="mailto:Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu">Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu</a><br>
><br>
> On Feb 16, 2008, at 10:29 AM, MJ Hardman wrote:<br>
><br>
>> "Assimilation" is a mild way to say it. And as to
Republican<br>
>> candidates --<br>
>> the drop-out -- that religion does indeed hold as a dogma that the<br>
>> US was<br>
>> founded in order for the true church to be reestablished & thus,<br>
>> yes, the US<br>
>> belongs to white people, who have come to bring the Native<br>
>> Americans back<br>
>> into the fold, after they transgressed (explained in one of their<br>
>> sacred<br>
>> books) and thus were made dark -- the fold of the white folks, of<br>
>> course.<br>
>> The Native Americans aren't as dark as blacks, whose transgression was<br>
>> worse, being descendants of Cain, though they have now been<br>
>> forgiven and can<br>
>> be brought into the fold. Since Native Americans are all from
the<br>
>> lost<br>
>> tribes of Israel, they have been rapidly welcomed into the fold,<br>
>> including<br>
>> by adoptions whenever possible.<br>
>><br>
>> And if what I wrote above sounds psychotic -- well, Mia, it's what<br>
>> they do<br>
>> indeed believe. They soft-pedal a lot of it for outsiders, they<br>
>> are *very*<br>
>> concerned about 'image' -- they are, after all, selling a<br>
>> religion. It was<br>
>> scary. And what scares me now is the vice-presidency.<br>
>><br>
>> MJ<br>
>><br>
>> On 2/14/08 3:08 PM, "Mia Kalish" <<a
href="mailto:MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US">MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> There IS a tradition of "assimilation," usually no
matter what it<br>
>>> takes to<br>
>>> get there. There was a story . . . Carolyn, Harrington's ex-wife,<br>
>>> found<br>
>>> papers in California that demonstrated the Indians were being<br>
>>> "baptized" by<br>
>>> 1st, clubbing them over the head until they were senseless and<br>
>>> couldn't<br>
>>> protest, and 2nd, being carried to the baptismal ceremony by their<br>
>>> guards,<br>
>>> who also functioned as the witnesses or whatever they call them.<br>
>>> The whole purpose of the boarding schools was to take children<br>
>>> away from the<br>
>>> influence of their families and cultures so they would grow up<br>
>>> "white."<br>
>>> I think the fact that they wrote this is very Freudian: People are<br>
>>> admitting, albeit subconsciously, that they are deliberately<br>
>>> interfering<br>
>>> with the lives of others.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I heard a speech the other day by one of those Republicans who<br>
>>> dropped out<br>
>>> of the presidential race, and he actually seemed to believe that
this<br>
>>> country "belongs" to white people. He had no
understanding or<br>
>>> recognition of<br>
>>> the fact that colonizers engaged in active and sustained genocide<br>
>>> to kill<br>
>>> the people who were living here originally. And by the way, he had<br>
>>> all these<br>
>>> statistics of the number of "out of wedlock" births by
people of<br>
>>> color.<br>
>>> Implicit in this is the cultural moré that womens' only function<br>
>>> in life is<br>
>>> to take care of men. (NOT.)</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>>>><br>
>>> Mia<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology<br>
>>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a>]</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>>>> On Behalf Of Richard Smith<br>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:40 PM<br>
>>> To: <a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</a><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<br>
>>></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>>>> yeah,<br>
>>> did you catch that....? "a Tradition of
Assimilation"<br>
>>> wow...amazing... we have traditionalists in office!<br>
>>> By the way...who's "tradition of assimilation?"<br>
>>><br>
>>> richard zane smith<br>
>>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 2/11/08 8:55 AM, "phil cash cash" <<a
href="mailto:cashcash@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU">cashcash@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Momentum Building for Oklahoma Official English Bill<br>
>>>><br>
>>> <a
href="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/"
target="_blank">http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/</a><br>
>>> story/02-11<br>
>>> -2<br>
>>>> 008/0004753576&EDATE=<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ~~~<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> While there seems to be respect for Native American
languages,<br>
>>>> these are<br>
>>> the<br>
>>>> words of legislators behind the English-only bill in the
Oklahoma<br>
>>>> state<br>
>>>> legislature:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> "...maintain a tradition of assimilation through our<br>
>>>> common language of English."<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> It seems hard to reconcile this position with Native American<br>
>>>> language<br>
>>>> preservation. Though I imagine the architects of such<br>
>>>> legislation view NA<br>
>>>> languages as "preservation at a distance".<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> l8ter,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Phil<br>
>>>> UofA<br>
>>><br>
>></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.<br>
<br>
Department of English (Primary) <br>
American Indian Language Development Institute (AILDI)<br>
Second Language Acquisition & Teaching Ph.D. Program (SLAT)<br>
Department of Language,Reading and Culture<br>
Department of Linguistics<br>
The Southwest Center (Research)<br>
Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836<br>
<br>
<br>
"Every language is an old-growth forest of the mind, a watershed of
thought, an ecosystem of spiritual possibilities." <br>
<br>
Wade Davis...(on a Starbucks
cup...) </span></font></p>
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