<div>We have strayed a bit from discussions of technology and language. But most of this is good.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Once again I will add my opinion.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The Amskapi Pikuni, the south Piegan, of the past were just as human as ethnic (and religious) groups are today. So if you look at our community history you will see that in many instances WE were the aggressors and oppressors in our relations with other groups. We had our own victims (and slaves!) who experienced ethnocentric behavior -- ours.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Interestingly, because of our own ethnocentric behavior we have with us today some very good Blackfeet language materials that were developed by traders and missionaries. These materials were created initially, not to assimilate the Blackfeet, but to communicate with the Blackfeet because they refused to speak anything but Blackfeet. (We even made the tribes who lived around us speak our language.) The first traders materials are these great sentence/answer lists that look like modern day travel books with "Where is the bathroom?" type questions. The missionary materials are much more complex texts, attempting to translate philosophical ideas into Blackfeet. The first priests here were Italian and the U.S. govt. agents were upset that these priests could not speak English and the priests learned to speak Blackfeet first (some never did learn to speak English).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Anyway, my point is that our history is much more complex than is often understood. And because of this complexity we have a wide variety of language materials available for us to use in language revitalization work -- the only missing element we have in our community is people who want to learn the language. But perhaps, with technology, we can leave behind a good enough record there will those in the future who will want to learn.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Rosalyn LaPier</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Ted Moomaw <ted.moomaw@COLVILLETRIBES.COM><br>
To: ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<br>
Sent: Tue, 26 Feb 2008 1:21 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<br>
<br>
</div>
<div id=AOLMsgPart_2_d9200ede-7755-4778-8c68-c40806f99530>
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<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'"> Is it true that Mormans believe we natives are the lost children of Israel and if we are converted to mormanism, It elevates the converter to a more special or higer place in heaven? Also will the converter be placed higher than the lost child. If so I think it is a selfish practice that needs to be abandoned, to look at someone elses beliefs as less than your own is selfish, especially if it is thought to elevate oneself in Creator's eyes. Wow! This discussion is pertinent to this site because I do believe if it were not for religion we would not be scrambling to help our languages flourish. </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'"> When an oppressive religion takes over, native languages become fragmented, once converted to an oppressors language or religion, what once was a part of the native language becomes set aside, thought of as evil, not passed on, something to fear, what makes a language beautiful and special is its deep conection to its own unique way of describing its beliefs about its own culture its own world view its own spirituality. </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'"> Language is the paint creator gave to our soul to depict the world around us, and if another thinks I may need more colors on my pallet I would say he must be color blind, creator gave me all the paint I need, we call it nslxcin.</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'">xwistsmxikn</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'">Ted Moomaw</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Lucida Sans Unicode" color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans Unicode'"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Indigenous Languages and Technology [<A href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU?">mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A>] <B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of </SPAN></B>Susan Penfield<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:44 AM<br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> <A href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A><br>
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Richard,</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thank you for your well stated comments. Hopefully, we all stand by those</SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">who are abused. I have enjoyed much of this thread and found the varying</SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">opinions important to be aware of since this is a sensitive issue.</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I do want to add that, not unlike the Mormons you mentioned,</SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dr. Dirk Elzinga has dedicated much of his professional life to Indigenous </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">communities and has accomplished a great deal for Indigenous languages. </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The community members I know who have worked with him have the highest </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">regard for the care and professionalism he consistently demonstrates and are </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">appreciative of the fact that he does not push his religion at them.</SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> </SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">I do not support the policies of many Christian churches, and other religiions as</SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">well, which condon and contribute to the opression of Indigenous people and which, in turn, </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">thus contribute heavily to language decline. -- much of this is still going on worldwide and we should all </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">be open to discussions that raise awareness about this issue.</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">All of this points to the complexities and hard work demanded of language revitalization -- all the way from </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">the real daily work of language teaching, to the more complicated and deeply ingrained conflicting </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">ideologies which drive or detract from these efforts.</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Susan</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<br>
</SPAN></FONT></div>
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<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Richard Smith <<A href="mailto:rzs@wildblue.net">rzs@wildblue.net</A>> wrote:</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hi Mia,<br>
thanks for the comments and for your view on these things.<br>
Its not easy but i've been trying my hardest to NOT see things as "good and<br>
bad" but trying to understand what happens when different ideologies and<br>
different beliefs strike sparks against one another.<br>
<br>
I've seen "ugly" there on the Navajo Rez too, and in Bluff and Blanding.<br>
But i've also known Mormons like Bruce McGee who<br>
grew up around Pinion and Keams Canyon, his father fluent in Navajo<br>
as a trader. Bruce( a bishop) has dedicated his life to helping Native<br>
Artists get recognition to make a living as artists and he works now at the<br>
Heard Museum in Phoenix. Also Leroy Garcia (a bishop) of Santa Fe who<br>
own and operate Blue Rain Gallery, who spends his life promoting<br>
us artists sparing no expense and always celebrating native cultures.<br>
<br>
So i'm choosing to view the "sparks" that fly ...carefully<br>
But I WILL stand alongside people I see being abused.<br>
I've had to do a little "calm mediation" between strangers when i see<br>
women being mistreated by "boyfriends"....several times.<br>
My experience is that a calm-strong stand by a womans side can unnerve<br>
a verbal abuser , allowing him to hear how foolish he sounds<br>
when he is "the sound of only one voice yelling"<br>
<br>
Calm can do amazing things in volatile situations<br>
(actually I was calmly prepared to kick out the guys knee)<br>
When we look into paths of rebuilding,rekindling....and revitalization,<br>
we can choose to look at a ruin as a sad wreck or a monument.<br>
<br>
But whatever, rebuilding is still hard work!<br>
<br>
Richard Zane Smith<br>
Wyandotte, Oklahoma<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2/25/08 2:51 PM, "Mia Kalish" <<A href="mailto:MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US">MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US</A>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> Wow. Have we posted a count lately on how many versions of the bible we have<br>
> written in different languages?<br>
> Have we counted how many Hawaiians and Polynesians - and American Indians<br>
> for that matter - died because missionaries had entirely the wrong idea<br>
> about clothing, associating it with some constructed view of morality rather<br>
> than the need to maintain a comfortable and safe body temperature?<br>
> Have we counted how many people, especially women, have been made to feel<br>
> "less than" because they had a child out of wedlock, or because they didn't<br>
> want to dominated by their husbands?<br>
> Religion has always, always, always contributed to social and linguistic<br>
> hegemony, whether people - Dr?/Mr? Elzinga included - want to admit it.<br>
> And speaking specifically of Mormons? I am here on Navajo, and I can't count<br>
> the number of people who don't know who they are socially, culturally,<br>
> historically and linguistically because they were taken away as children and<br>
> placed - Specifically - in Mormon homes.<br>
> And I might add, from personal experience, these are some of the nastiest<br>
> and cruelest people I have ever met. Is it a function of Mormon - where I<br>
> have been told educated MEN have the most power, especially over women (so<br>
> you can guess how I think and feel about that!) - I don't know. I think it<br>
> is a matter of proselytizing justifying its behaviors to the hurt of others.<br>
><br>
> So Dirk Mr/Dr Elzinga, I am sure there are a lot of lists where people talk<br>
> about how great the idea of changing language and culture by immersion of<br>
> white religious ideas into the bibles was and still is. But they aren't this<br>
> one.<br>
> By the way, I'm Jewish, and my idea of Christ doesn't even come close to<br>
> what the white mythics constructed in the name of power, destruction and<br>
> often just pure meanness.</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">> Mia<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [mailto:<A href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A>]</SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">> On Behalf Of Dirk Elzinga<br>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:05 AM<br>
> To: <A href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A><br>
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<br>
></SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">> Oh, for Pete's sake.<br>
><br>
> I signed on to this list to listen to, and engage in discussion about<br>
> indigenous languages and techonology (that is the list name, after<br>
> all). A discussion of my religious beliefs (I am a member of the<br>
> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the religion whose name<br>
> you seem to be stepping around) isn't appropriate in this context,<br>
> nor does it contribute to the list's purpose. There are any number of<br>
> Mormon-bashing blogs and websites you can visit if that's your thing.<br>
><br>
> Dirk Elzinga<br>
> --<br>
> Department of Linguistics and English Language<br>
> Brigham Young University<br>
> 4043 JFSB<br>
> Provo, UT 84602<br>
> 801.422.2117<br>
> <A href="mailto:Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu">Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu</A><br>
><br>
> On Feb 16, 2008, at 10:29 AM, MJ Hardman wrote:<br>
><br>
>> "Assimilation" is a mild way to say it. And as to Republican<br>
>> candidates --<br>
>> the drop-out -- that religion does indeed hold as a dogma that the<br>
>> US was<br>
>> founded in order for the true church to be reestablished & thus,<br>
>> yes, the US<br>
>> belongs to white people, who have come to bring the Native<br>
>> Americans back<br>
>> into the fold, after they transgressed (explained in one of their<br>
>> sacred<br>
>> books) and thus were made dark -- the fold of the white folks, of<br>
>> course.<br>
>> The Native Americans aren't as dark as blacks, whose transgression was<br>
>> worse, being descendants of Cain, though they have now been<br>
>> forgiven and can<br>
>> be brought into the fold. Since Native Americans are all from the<br>
>> lost<br>
>> tribes of Israel, they have been rapidly welcomed into the fold,<br>
>> including<br>
>> by adoptions whenever possible.<br>
>><br>
>> And if what I wrote above sounds psychotic -- well, Mia, it's what<br>
>> they do<br>
>> indeed believe. They soft-pedal a lot of it for outsiders, they<br>
>> are *very*<br>
>> concerned about 'image' -- they are, after all, selling a<br>
>> religion. It was<br>
>> scary. And what scares me now is the vice-presidency.<br>
>><br>
>> MJ<br>
>><br>
>> On 2/14/08 3:08 PM, "Mia Kalish" <<A href="mailto:MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US">MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US</A>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> There IS a tradition of "assimilation," usually no matter what it<br>
>>> takes to<br>
>>> get there. There was a story . . . Carolyn, Harrington's ex-wife,<br>
>>> found<br>
>>> papers in California that demonstrated the Indians were being<br>
>>> "baptized" by<br>
>>> 1st, clubbing them over the head until they were senseless and<br>
>>> couldn't<br>
>>> protest, and 2nd, being carried to the baptismal ceremony by their<br>
>>> guards,<br>
>>> who also functioned as the witnesses or whatever they call them.<br>
>>> The whole purpose of the boarding schools was to take children<br>
>>> away from the<br>
>>> influence of their families and cultures so they would grow up<br>
>>> "white."<br>
>>> I think the fact that they wrote this is very Freudian: People are<br>
>>> admitting, albeit subconsciously, that they are deliberately<br>
>>> interfering<br>
>>> with the lives of others.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I heard a speech the other day by one of those Republicans who<br>
>>> dropped out<br>
>>> of the presidential race, and he actually seemed to believe that this<br>
>>> country "belongs" to white people. He had no understanding or<br>
>>> recognition of<br>
>>> the fact that colonizers engaged in active and sustained genocide<br>
>>> to kill<br>
>>> the people who were living here originally. And by the way, he had<br>
>>> all these<br>
>>> statistics of the number of "out of wedlock" births by people of<br>
>>> color.<br>
>>> Implicit in this is the cultural moré that womens' only function<br>
>>> in life is<br>
>>> to take care of men. (NOT.)</SPAN></FONT></div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">>>><br>
>>> Mia<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology<br>
>>> [mailto:<A href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A>]</SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">>>> On Behalf Of Richard Smith<br>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:40 PM<br>
>>> To: <A href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<br>
>>></SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">>>> yeah,<br>
>>> did you catch that....? "a Tradition of Assimilation"<br>
>>> wow...amazing... we have traditionalists in office!<br>
>>> By the way...who's "tradition of assimilation?"<br>
>>><br>
>>> richard zane smith<br>
>>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On 2/11/08 8:55 AM, "phil cash cash" <<A href="mailto:cashcash@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU">cashcash@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU</A>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> Momentum Building for Oklahoma Official English Bill<br>
>>>><br>
>>> <A href="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/" target=_blank>http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/</A><br>
>>> story/02-11<br>
>>> -2<br>
>>>> 008/0004753576&EDATE=<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ~~~<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> While there seems to be respect for Native American languages,<br>
>>>> these are<br>
>>> the<br>
>>>> words of legislators behind the English-only bill in the Oklahoma<br>
>>>> state<br>
>>>> legislature:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> "...maintain a tradition of assimilation through our<br>
>>>> common language of English."<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> It seems hard to reconcile this position with Native American<br>
>>>> language<br>
>>>> preservation. Though I imagine the architects of such<br>
>>>> legislation view NA<br>
>>>> languages as "preservation at a distance".<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> l8ter,<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Phil<br>
>>>> UofA<br>
>>><br>
>></SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
<div class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in"><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><br>
<BR clear=all><br>
-- <br>
____________________________________________________________<br>
Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.<br>
<br>
Department of English (Primary) <br>
American Indian Language Development Institute (AILDI)<br>
Second Language Acquisition & Teaching Ph.D. Program (SLAT)<br>
Department of Language,Reading and Culture<br>
Department of Linguistics<br>
The Southwest Center (Research)<br>
Phone for messages: (520) 621-1836<br>
<br>
<br>
"Every language is an old-growth forest of the mind, a watershed of thought, an ecosystem of spiritual possibilities." <br>
<br>
Wade Davis...(on a Starbucks cup...) </SPAN></FONT></div>
</div>
</div>
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