<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'>I appreciate these responses too<BR>
I feel sometimes its like being a fire marshal, trying to find the cause of a fire.<BR>
faulty wires? arson? intolerance? how did we lose it ...all?<BR>
If we can find the cause, we might be able to plan better reconstruction.<BR>
If it's only to point fingers and pass blame then its probably not going to help.<BR>
<BR>
Though spiritual beliefs are sacred to individuals and are to be honored<BR>
it seems fitting that proselytizing RELIGIONS as institutions be scrutinized,<BR>
after all they are by nature the aggressor...seeking converts and degrees of conformity.<BR>
I include Secularism as well, because it can be just as absolutist (convinced of itself)<BR>
and it does have sway over much of our educational systems. Secularism can be<BR>
demeaning because it has also crafted it's own LENS to view all else.<BR>
Though it accepts "spirituality" ,its often convinced its mere psychology.<BR>
"nothing really out there,anyway, so let 'em chant"<BR>
<BR>
There is a certain level of tolerance among Evangelicals for indigenous culture.<BR>
There is even support for indigenous revitalization efforts, as long as one holds the <BR>
correct LENS understanding that all humanity came from the literal Eden. <BR>
And if its fact (God said it!) then everyone in the world needs to know it.<BR>
Therefore Wycliffe Bible Translators goal from real conviction ,has been<BR>
to "reduce" every language of the world into written form so people can read<BR>
the Bible and know that they came from Adam and Eve, they are born in sin, <BR>
a tower caused God to create the confusion of languages....etc..<BR>
<BR>
What is the source of our passion for revitalization?<BR>
Can we use any of this burnt stuff for re-building?<BR>
<BR>
just some stirring of the pot,<BR>
Richard Zane Smith<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 2/26/08 8:44 AM, "Susan Penfield" <susan.penfield@GMAIL.COM> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'>Richard,<BR>
<BR>
Thank you for your well stated comments. Hopefully, we all stand by those<BR>
who are abused. I have enjoyed much of this thread and found the varying<BR>
opinions important to be aware of since this is a sensitive issue.<BR>
<BR>
I do want to add that, not unlike the Mormons you mentioned,<BR>
Dr. Dirk Elzinga has dedicated much of his professional life to Indigenous <BR>
communities and has accomplished a great deal for Indigenous languages. <BR>
The community members I know who have worked with him have the highest <BR>
regard for the care and professionalism he consistently demonstrates and are <BR>
appreciative of the fact that he does not push his religion at them.<BR>
<BR>
I do not support the policies of many Christian churches, and other religiions as<BR>
well, which condon and contribute to the opression of Indigenous people and which, in turn, <BR>
thus contribute heavily to language decline. -- much of this is still going on worldwide and we should all <BR>
be open to discussions that raise awareness about this issue.<BR>
<BR>
All of this points to the complexities and hard work demanded of language revitalization -- all the way from <BR>
the real daily work of language teaching, to the more complicated and deeply ingrained conflicting <BR>
ideologies which drive or detract from these efforts.<BR>
<BR>
Susan<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 11:10 AM, Richard Smith <rzs@wildblue.net> wrote:<BR>
</SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'>Hi Mia,<BR>
thanks for the comments and for your view on these things.<BR>
Its not easy but i've been trying my hardest to NOT see things as "good and<BR>
bad" but trying to understand what happens when different ideologies and<BR>
different beliefs strike sparks against one another.<BR>
<BR>
I've seen "ugly" there on the Navajo Rez too, and in Bluff and Blanding.<BR>
But i've also known Mormons like Bruce McGee who<BR>
grew up around Pinion and Keams Canyon, his father fluent in Navajo<BR>
as a trader. Bruce( a bishop) has dedicated his life to helping Native<BR>
Artists get recognition to make a living as artists and he works now at the<BR>
Heard Museum in Phoenix. Also Leroy Garcia (a bishop) of Santa Fe who<BR>
own and operate Blue Rain Gallery, who spends his life promoting<BR>
us artists sparing no expense and always celebrating native cultures.<BR>
<BR>
So i'm choosing to view the "sparks" that fly ...carefully<BR>
But I WILL stand alongside people I see being abused.<BR>
I've had to do a little "calm mediation" between strangers when i see<BR>
women being mistreated by "boyfriends"....several times.<BR>
My experience is that a calm-strong stand by a womans side can unnerve<BR>
a verbal abuser , allowing him to hear how foolish he sounds<BR>
when he is "the sound of only one voice yelling"<BR>
<BR>
Calm can do amazing things in volatile situations<BR>
(actually I was calmly prepared to kick out the guys knee)<BR>
When we look into paths of rebuilding,rekindling....and revitalization,<BR>
we can choose to look at a ruin as a sad wreck or a monument.<BR>
<BR>
But whatever, rebuilding is still hard work!<BR>
<BR>
Richard Zane Smith<BR>
Wyandotte, Oklahoma<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On 2/25/08 2:51 PM, "Mia Kalish" <MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Wow. Have we posted a count lately on how many versions of the bible we have<BR>
> written in different languages?<BR>
> Have we counted how many Hawaiians and Polynesians - and American Indians<BR>
> for that matter - died because missionaries had entirely the wrong idea<BR>
> about clothing, associating it with some constructed view of morality rather<BR>
> than the need to maintain a comfortable and safe body temperature?<BR>
> Have we counted how many people, especially women, have been made to feel<BR>
> "less than" because they had a child out of wedlock, or because they didn't<BR>
> want to dominated by their husbands?<BR>
> Religion has always, always, always contributed to social and linguistic<BR>
> hegemony, whether people - Dr?/Mr? Elzinga included - want to admit it.<BR>
> And speaking specifically of Mormons? I am here on Navajo, and I can't count<BR>
> the number of people who don't know who they are socially, culturally,<BR>
> historically and linguistically because they were taken away as children and<BR>
> placed - Specifically - in Mormon homes.<BR>
> And I might add, from personal experience, these are some of the nastiest<BR>
> and cruelest people I have ever met. Is it a function of Mormon - where I<BR>
> have been told educated MEN have the most power, especially over women (so<BR>
> you can guess how I think and feel about that!) - I don't know. I think it<BR>
> is a matter of proselytizing justifying its behaviors to the hurt of others.<BR>
><BR>
> So Dirk Mr/Dr Elzinga, I am sure there are a lot of lists where people talk<BR>
> about how great the idea of changing language and culture by immersion of<BR>
> white religious ideas into the bibles was and still is. But they aren't this<BR>
> one.<BR>
> By the way, I'm Jewish, and my idea of Christ doesn't even come close to<BR>
> what the white mythics constructed in the name of power, destruction and<BR>
> often just pure meanness.<BR>
> Mia<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology [<a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]">mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]</a><BR>
> On Behalf Of Dirk Elzinga<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2008 11:05 AM<BR>
> To: ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<BR>
> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<BR>
><BR>
> Oh, for Pete's sake.<BR>
><BR>
> I signed on to this list to listen to, and engage in discussion about<BR>
> indigenous languages and techonology (that is the list name, after<BR>
> all). A discussion of my religious beliefs (I am a member of the<BR>
> Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the religion whose name<BR>
> you seem to be stepping around) isn't appropriate in this context,<BR>
> nor does it contribute to the list's purpose. There are any number of<BR>
> Mormon-bashing blogs and websites you can visit if that's your thing.<BR>
><BR>
> Dirk Elzinga<BR>
> --<BR>
> Department of Linguistics and English Language<BR>
> Brigham Young University<BR>
> 4043 JFSB<BR>
> Provo, UT 84602<BR>
> 801.422.2117<BR>
> Dirk_Elzinga@byu.edu<BR>
><BR>
> On Feb 16, 2008, at 10:29 AM, MJ Hardman wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> "Assimilation" is a mild way to say it. And as to Republican<BR>
>> candidates --<BR>
>> the drop-out -- that religion does indeed hold as a dogma that the<BR>
>> US was<BR>
>> founded in order for the true church to be reestablished & thus,<BR>
>> yes, the US<BR>
>> belongs to white people, who have come to bring the Native<BR>
>> Americans back<BR>
>> into the fold, after they transgressed (explained in one of their<BR>
>> sacred<BR>
>> books) and thus were made dark -- the fold of the white folks, of<BR>
>> course.<BR>
>> The Native Americans aren't as dark as blacks, whose transgression was<BR>
>> worse, being descendants of Cain, though they have now been<BR>
>> forgiven and can<BR>
>> be brought into the fold. Since Native Americans are all from the<BR>
>> lost<BR>
>> tribes of Israel, they have been rapidly welcomed into the fold,<BR>
>> including<BR>
>> by adoptions whenever possible.<BR>
>><BR>
>> And if what I wrote above sounds psychotic -- well, Mia, it's what<BR>
>> they do<BR>
>> indeed believe. They soft-pedal a lot of it for outsiders, they<BR>
>> are *very*<BR>
>> concerned about 'image' -- they are, after all, selling a<BR>
>> religion. It was<BR>
>> scary. And what scares me now is the vice-presidency.<BR>
>><BR>
>> MJ<BR>
>><BR>
>> On 2/14/08 3:08 PM, "Mia Kalish" <MiaKalish@LEARNINGFORPEOPLE.US><BR>
>> wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> There IS a tradition of "assimilation," usually no matter what it<BR>
>>> takes to<BR>
>>> get there. There was a story . . . Carolyn, Harrington's ex-wife,<BR>
>>> found<BR>
>>> papers in California that demonstrated the Indians were being<BR>
>>> "baptized" by<BR>
>>> 1st, clubbing them over the head until they were senseless and<BR>
>>> couldn't<BR>
>>> protest, and 2nd, being carried to the baptismal ceremony by their<BR>
>>> guards,<BR>
>>> who also functioned as the witnesses or whatever they call them.<BR>
>>> The whole purpose of the boarding schools was to take children<BR>
>>> away from the<BR>
>>> influence of their families and cultures so they would grow up<BR>
>>> "white."<BR>
>>> I think the fact that they wrote this is very Freudian: People are<BR>
>>> admitting, albeit subconsciously, that they are deliberately<BR>
>>> interfering<BR>
>>> with the lives of others.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> I heard a speech the other day by one of those Republicans who<BR>
>>> dropped out<BR>
>>> of the presidential race, and he actually seemed to believe that this<BR>
>>> country "belongs" to white people. He had no understanding or<BR>
>>> recognition of<BR>
>>> the fact that colonizers engaged in active and sustained genocide<BR>
>>> to kill<BR>
>>> the people who were living here originally. And by the way, he had<BR>
>>> all these<BR>
>>> statistics of the number of "out of wedlock" births by people of<BR>
>>> color.<BR>
>>> Implicit in this is the cultural moré that womens' only function<BR>
>>> in life is<BR>
>>> to take care of men. (NOT.)<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Mia<BR>
>>><BR>
>>><BR>
>>><BR>
>>> -----Original Message-----<BR>
>>> From: Indigenous Languages and Technology<BR>
>>> [<a href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]">mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU]</a><BR>
>>> On Behalf Of Richard Smith<BR>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 10:40 PM<BR>
>>> To: ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU<BR>
>>> Subject: Re: [ILAT] traditions of assimilation...<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> yeah,<BR>
>>> did you catch that....? "a Tradition of Assimilation"<BR>
>>> wow...amazing... we have traditionalists in office!<BR>
>>> By the way...who's "tradition of assimilation?"<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> richard zane smith<BR>
>>> Wyandotte, Oklahoma<BR>
>>><BR>
>>><BR>
>>> On 2/11/08 8:55 AM, "phil cash cash" <cashcash@EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU><BR>
>>> wrote:<BR>
>>><BR>
>>>> Momentum Building for Oklahoma Official English Bill<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>> <a href="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/">http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/</a> <a href="http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/"><http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/></a> <BR>
>>> story/02-11<BR>
>>> -2<BR>
>>>> 008/0004753576&EDATE=<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>> ~~~<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>> While there seems to be respect for Native American languages,<BR>
>>>> these are<BR>
>>> the<BR>
>>>> words of legislators behind the English-only bill in the Oklahoma<BR>
>>>> state<BR>
>>>> legislature:<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>> "...maintain a tradition of assimilation through our<BR>
>>>> common language of English."<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>> It seems hard to reconcile this position with Native American<BR>
>>>> language<BR>
>>>> preservation. Though I imagine the architects of such<BR>
>>>> legislation view NA<BR>
>>>> languages as "preservation at a distance".<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>> l8ter,<BR>
>>>><BR>
>>>> Phil<BR>
>>>> UofA<BR>
>>><BR>
>><BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'><BR>
<BR>
</SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE='font-size:14.0px'><BR>
</SPAN></FONT>
</BODY>
</HTML>