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I had an interesting conversation, in the sauna, with a non-Native
person a few evenings ago. He suggested that evolution was a slow
process over a long time and the everything in the world had time to
move along and adjust at the same pace as evolution. He suggested
everything, today, is moving so incredibly fast in comparison, nothing
has had time to peacefully integrate that change. He suggested man has
not had the time to mentally, physically or spiritually adjust to the
rate of advancement in modern technologies. He suggested technology has
moved into a future without human advancement and left humans with the
emotional and mental capacity of cavemen(persons :) His was, in my
opinion, a very astute one and very much in line with what you are
saying. Anthropology has long discussed and pondered the question of
rapid advancement through technological introductions and its
untested, unverified effects on any culture.<br>
<br>
Speaking with a good friend from Harvard Anthropology, I said to him,
'...okay...we have tribal culture, folk culture, urban culture and what
is next...' He very quickly replied, '...bureaucratic culture....' I
responded that, '...bureaucracy is not a culture...' and he responded,
'...not yet but its getting there...' That was about twenty years ago.
My friend is no longer with us but I often wish I could have more
conversations with him along such lines of though. I think, now, that
he is indeed correct. <br>
<br>
I don't have a great handle on it yet but I have been working it over
for some time and its implications for tribal/indigenous peoples.
Incidentally, we often spoke of how 'the tribe' is the longest
surviving form of human collective and the most conducive to human
survival...excluding contemporary associations of tribalism with gangs,
interest groups and ethnic cleansing...those have nothing to do with
'tribe'. Those appear to be a modern phenomenon of rampant social and
cultural deterioration brought about, in many cases, by constitutional
nationalism, juridical boundaries and melting pot theories.<br>
<br>
I can sure use all the great ideas people have been contributing and I
will use them in the construction of ideal types for analysis and
placement on a continuum from tribal to bureaucratic...try and look for
a 'fit'.<br>
<br>
Someone asked me in a conversation, 'What is the greatest thing you
learned from your grandfather...' I could hear my grandfather saying to
me again, '...leave it alone...just keep walking...' and I think that
is it but, of course, not the only. I think so many have lot the 'leave
it alone' and the 'just keep walking' in our lives.<br>
<br>
I appreciate your comments and information...megwetch<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-------
wahjeh
rolland nadjiwon</pre>
<br>
<br>
Richard Zane Smith wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:dea1eec80911080819q4ebc7addt9b347c11a64a8837@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Kweh Rolland, Potawatomi political refugee in Kanatah :-)
<div><i>once upon a time in some galaxy somewhere there were no
border lines....</i></div>
<div>wow..I'm glad you discuss this kind of stuff in the classroom.<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">yeah,</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">I think this is an important issue and i
didn't want to offend anyone who</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">is a believer in all these cool technologies
for Language revitalization,</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">I'm one of those who enjoys technology(email
and my chain saw) but am a little </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">concerned because these gadgets are so dang
new and haven't been tried,</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">tested for sustainability past a measly 100
years or less.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">They haven't a long presence and/or history
on earth as say,</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">the stone tool has and village life,nations
and confederations....</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">I mean ...can we even imagine <i>ten
thousand years of chain saws</i>?</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">maybe If we <i>think</i> that way...it gets
more serious if not damn scary.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">I'm not sure we today we give ourselves time
to consider that kind of cost.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Otr maybe we've decided its impossible to
deal with,so we shrug it off</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">and keep going.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">But if we are to look to our 7th
generation...we gotta do a little thinkin.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">about my signature; yes its my tribal
affiliation, but its also the town nearest</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">to where we live!</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">ske:noh (peace/well-being)</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Richard</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Wyandotte, Oklahoma</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 11:50 PM, Rolland
Nadjiwon <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mikinakn@shaw.ca">mikinakn@shaw.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Richard...I would really like to use some of your ideas as springboards
in my classes for further discussion. I think you make an important
point with the idea of 'gradual change....' A very important point
tribal/indigenous peoples all over the globe are faced with and must
somehow deal with. I like the identification of your people in your
signature. I guess mine would read something like:<br>
<br>
Rolland<br>
Potowatomi - political refugee in Canada :)<br>
<pre cols="72">-------
wahjeh
rolland nadjiwon</pre>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
Richard Zane Smith wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Kweh omateru,</div>
<div>(greetings friends)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>oh yeah,this "blood-quantum" issue is bound to come around
...kinda</div>
<div> like those panicky fwd.fwd.fwd. internet hoaxes that keep
returning.</div>
<br>
What is said here is true though about assimilation.
<div>Most of our first nations peoples were great assimilators
ourselves.<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">Our ancestors recognized a new useful
tool
when they saw it,</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">and even welcomed a good-minded strong
young
person ,regardless of race.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">But then our ancestors lived in an age
of
gradual change....</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Everything has its price</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">In the past, with a crafted stone tool ,
a
person could fell a tree.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">today it takes a million people to fell
the
same tree.... </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">when using a chain saw.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">but the effort and the resulting ease is
....inescapeable</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">and such a cost is really
....immeasurable</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">In the past our adoptees(of other
people)
were given clan mothers and equal status </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">as those "born in". Marrying outside
became
almost ....traditional, and it continues....</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Today "marrying outside" isn't the same
as
assimilating into the tribe as it once was</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">so...yes, there there is a cost to that
too.
A "white" spouse is not an accepted tribal member and as a result there
can be a split along a strange foreign line called "race"</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">which fractures more and more tribal
identity and its own infrastructure.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">What would our ancestors think? I guess
i
like to speculate....</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Would our ancestors look at future
grandchildren becoming less and less</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">grandchildren? and measure them by
blood? or
would our ancestors be more </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">concerned about grandchildren (no matter
their skin) becoming desensitized </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">about their tribal identity and loss of
their language?</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Our ancestors might be glad our children
are
hearing so many stories from so many people. But they might be upset
knowing there are some people trying</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">to <i>replace</i> our own traditional
stories with some of those foreign or dominant ones.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">They would probably be glad the children
are
learning a good universal language,</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">but they would be extremely concerned if
that language was becoming dominant</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">and edging out all the languages of the
land.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">We live on a racetrack of instant and
continual rapid change and this is </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">disconcerting and difficult to study, or
make any worry-free predictions. </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">This plugged in greater society is
becoming
more and more "world dependent"</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"> just as it is becoming more and more
fragile and delicate in its own infrastructure</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">But despite all that...sure,I can make a
stone axe</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">but it sure aint gonna be used for
cutting
firewood.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">I'll grab my chain-saw </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">and for now</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">I guess my million helpers around the
world
will be glad I did.</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">ske:noh</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Richard</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">Wyandotte Oklahoma</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Heather
Souter <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:hsouter@gmail.com" target="_blank">hsouter@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Taanshi,
hello....<br>
<br>
Rolland, your words are very powerful! Thank-you! (I hope you will
allow me to quote you....)<br>
<br>
<br>
I am presently trying to work out my dissertation proposal and am
struggling with issues of identity, relation to land and language for
our people. Many in positions of power focus on genealogical
connection and acceptance in a "community" as the most important
markers of who we are. However, as indigenous peoples we did not come
to be except through our relationship with the land and the practices
that are based on that relationship. Our languages express that
relationship in their processes/structures/content.... The land is
the place from which our languages spring forth and through our
connection/symbiosis with (and/or impact on) the land and then
develop, change and--in many important ways--help reproduce the
relationships many of our Elders enjoy and our ancestors before them.
I see the need to speak our languages, to practice the ways of our
ancestors and to renew our relationship with the land while
incorporating---when and where appropriate for our collective survival
as distinct peoples-- the new technologies of the modern/digital age.
How do we promote co-present learning from/with Elders and other
knowledge keepers as well as best use digital technologies to promote
the maintenance/stabilization/revitalization/renewal of our languages
and communication practices? Can we do both? Are they mutually
exclusive? How do digital technologies affect our relationship with
the land and with the others (the plants, the animals, etc.) who
inhabit it with us? How does digital technology--especially computer
mediated communication--effect our relationships in our emplaced human
communities? With Elders, family and friends who live near us? Does
digital technology promote the decontextualization of our relationships
and therefore fundamentally change them and who we are as peoples? Is
there a way to balance the present-day "need" for digital technology
with our need to be co-present with with others in order to maintain a
sense of who we are as Indigenous peoples? I have so many questions
and no answers....<br>
<br>
Thanks for listening....<br>
Eekoshi pitamaa. That is all for now.<br>
<font color="#888888">Heather</font>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 1:10 PM,
Rolland
Nadjiwon <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mikinakn@shaw.ca" target="_blank">mikinakn@shaw.ca</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">Thanks Jim...this one
has been rattling around Indian country for a few
days. I paid attention at first but the discussion itself is
paradoxical, so if you read it 30 years ago, it is still the same
oroboro... Some of the discussions along the lines of cultural alchemy
are infuriating. Marriage does not threaten culture but what you do
with culture after you marry can. It is one thing to take a foreign
item and integrate it attaching our own cultural meaning. It is
entirely something else when we take in a foreign item and bring with
it its foreign cultural meaning...one is integration the other is
assimilation. These are two very distinct and subtle processes. We can
have any kind of blood that will keep us living but if that living is
not the daily activities of our people/relatives which keep the living
memories of our ancestors, culturally we have become something
different. Blood be damned...it will not give the knowledge of where
our people hunt, how they hunt, what the hunting medicine/rituals are,
what medicines to use where, or the ancient knowledge of our own
cosmology. All that is only possible though relatives and ancestors.
What can a narrative, a recording, a video, a map tell us of how we
relate to the 'little people' in ritual and prayer. <br>
<br>
Most of the language is gone from the communities where I now live, my
mother's people. Few people remember the traditional geography of this
place and the names that tell you what it is all about. Young people
now go to places with snow machines, ATVs, four x fours and run rampant
over places made sacred by the generations of our ancestors repeatedly
and repeatedly doing offerings and ceremonies far beyond a single
memory of that place. Without that knowledge there is not even the
knowledge of violation by unknowingly urinating or defecating on a
sacred spot where our people made prayer and talked with the spirits.<br>
<br>
And now we are going to discuss the age old blood quantum, no longer
because of the colonizers, but to identify amongst our own people to
determine who qualifies for the largest payout.... In my opinion, I
will stop here as I see this discussion having no solution...unless, of
course, someone else can please post one.<br>
<pre cols="72">-------
wahjeh
rolland nadjiwon</pre>
<blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000" face="Verdana"
size="2">
<div><font color="#000000" face="Verdana" size="2">
<div>
<h1>Oregon family at heart of sticky issue: Does
intermarriage
threaten Native American culture?</h1>
<h4>By <a moz-do-not-send="true"
title="http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/dcockle/index.html"
href="http://connect.oregonlive.com/user/dcockle/index.html"
target="_blank">Richard
Cockle, The Oregonian</a> </h4>
<h5>November 06, 2009, 5:10PM</h5>
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</font></div>
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