<div>All on this topic:</div>
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<div>To throw my "two cents" in and a viewpoint of fluency in three languages--these questions, including does your first language influence your thinking or the other way around, I believe, are questions that fluent speakers of more than one language would be more able to make assessments on. Also, even if some Indigenous language speakers, mostly in the past (now most of our elders are bilingual in our rez communities) did not speak English (for example), they still had concepts and values such as morality lessons, right and wrongness of actions, etc. that are probably embedded in all cultures; therefore, saying that they didn't understand certain things just because it was not in their languages is not very accurate.</div>
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<div>The other thing is that I can distinguish in myself what language I'm coming from when I think about certain things, but most things I make important decisions on involve my first language more often than and includes even modern topics such as how I'll give advice about higher education to my grandchildren who are all raised on the rez. I think about in Apache first, in other words, then tell them in English why I believe they should plan their futures. Also, too numerous times to count, I often find that English is not an adequate language in complex topics such as in attempting to describe our ceremonies, meanings, symbolism, spirituality beliefs, traditional values, etc. </div>
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<div>The other thing about our Indigenous languages is that they far surpass English in many areas, topics of discussion, and use in descriptions of land, natural resources, etc. The Apache language is far richer than English, in other words, and I can make that assertion because I speak both fluently.</div>
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<div>Another curious thing I've observed is that many people who are monolingual in English make numerous grammar mistakes, even though some are highly educated or hold high public positions; why is it that some of us for whom English is a second or third language can use English in a more standard or "correct" version than some of those for whom it is their first and only language? What does that imply regarding these questions on Whorf's theories?</div>
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<div>Just some views on this topic of whether language shapes a person or the other way around.</div>
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<div>Bernadette A. SantaMaria</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 9:03 AM, MJ Hardman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hardman@ufl.edu">hardman@ufl.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class="gmail_quote">
<div><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">What fun questions!! I imagine an evening, or more, of conversation in person, just tossing back and forth all these implcatons. And yeah, some of us have indeed thought of a lot of these. And stewed on them. And for me, it’s coming full circle; my first studies were with the students of the originals named. Stuff got lost in the middle there, where folks stopped asking; thought they <b>really</b> knew. Really? If we think we shall discover the nature of human existence maybe we need a bit of humility.<br>
<br>Thanks. MJ
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<div class="h5"><br><br>On 8/30/10 10:19 AM, "Richard Zane Smith" <<a href="http://rzs@WILDBLUE.NET" target="_blank">rzs@WILDBLUE.NET</a>> wrote:<br><br></div></div></span></font>
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<blockquote><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Thanks Dave,<br>great article, love this stuff! .... it makes me ask some "different" questions.<br>Makes me want to analyze the analyzers, probe the probers, to study the studiers,.<br>
<i><br>- what is it that makes certain people groups analyze other people groups?<br></i><br><i>- why is it NOT important for some people groups to analyze other people groups? <br><br>- has there been a specific anthropological study on anthropologists?<br>
</i><br>- <i>is it a cultural motivated desire to find patterns and to comprehend everything that exists?<br></i><br><i>-why do some cultural groups seem free from a desire to understand everything in the universe?<br></i><br>
- <i>is continual knowledge harvesting a lingering desire of conquest or is it preeminent curiosity?<br><br><br></i>wow this list could keep going...<br><br>Richard Zane Smith<br>Wyandotte Oklahoma<br><i><br><br></i><br><br>
<br><br>On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:57 AM, Dave Pearson <<a href="http://dave_pearson@sil.org" target="_blank">dave_pearson@sil.org</a>> wrote:<br></span></font>
<blockquote><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><font size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Guy Deutscher’s article in yesterday’s New York Times, “Does Your Language Shape How You Think?” is a stimulating challenge to the linguacentric assumptions that each of us make.<br>
<br></span></font><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/magazine/29language-t.html</a><br></span><font size="2"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> <br>
<font color="#888888">Dave<br></font></span></font></font></blockquote><font face="Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><br><br></span></font></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>