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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>my husband describes context based language
learning as an emotional process. When you "feel" the language, then it's yours!
So context along with a word forms an emotion of some kind, it means
something to you! We have a memory with all of the words we know
and everytime we hear them, that memory is there and so does the
meaning we associate with it. We become hard-wired that way!
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title="mailto:deanna.kingston@OREGONSTATE.EDU
CTRL + Click to follow link"
href="mailto:deanna.kingston@OREGONSTATE.EDU">Kingston, Deanna</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 18, 2011 12:24 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A
title="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU
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href="mailto:ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU">ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ILAT] Response to Deb Roy's study</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><FONT size=4><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thank
you for your comment, Cathy! <BR><BR>I also just got to thinking that Deb’s
other point was that they were able to map the physical location in which
learning took place. “Water” was centered in the kitchen while “bye” occurred at
the door.<BR><BR>This makes a case for teaching a language in situ – i.e., if
you are learning words about picking greens on the tundra, then you should be
out in the tundra. If you are learning words for skinning a seal, then you
should be skinning a seal. This might be the basis for increased funding for
language camps out on the landscape, which can and should take place year-round.
A classroom is an impersonal, not as socially or culturally significant, place
to learn.<BR><BR>Again, this may already be in the literature . . .
<BR>Thanks,<BR>Deanna<BR><BR>On 3/18/11 10:22 AM, "Cathy's hotmail account"
<chimiskwew@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT face=Arial>I
agree Deanna, I am also learning as an adult and note that that fluent
speakers tend to overcorrect adults learning versus encouraging children which
has a negative impact on learning. Adults rarely have a such a nurturing
environment to learn and fluent speakers are unaware of their responses as to
them, it should be relatively easy for us to learn! but I have also found that
once a fluent speaker attempts to learn a new second language as an adult,
they soon realize it is not that easy to learn to speak a language with new
spoken sounds and rhythms that unfamiliar. It takes encouragement and
patience and repetition as even children must practice hearing and trying to
speak words before they master it and it does take some time! When fluent
speakers experience what we as second language learners go through by
attempting to learn a new language, they are much more in tune with a
student's perspective and learning curve. <BR></FONT><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR></FONT><FONT face=Arial>I find
that refraining from English replies and instead acknowledging they comprehend
what a new speaker is attempting to say boosts confidence tremendously versus
a response indicating a new speaker not have yet achieved perfect
pronunciation during initial speaking attempts can be very disheartening given
how long it takes to even speak simple phrases for individuals! Often new
speakers are reluctant to speak again as the bar of speaking ability has been
raised unreasonably high so future attempts are affected. I also find that
people are far too rigid dialectically however I understand they are proud of
their language but again, they do not realize the negative impact these kinds
of responses have on the confidence level of a new speaker. <BR></FONT><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR></FONT><FONT
face=Arial>Confidence in speaking is a mandatory component of being able to
gain speaking ability. Without confidence, an individual will remain with the
ability to understand a language but never be speak it to others which is
tantamount to being mute! I don't think that either children or adults
could learn to speak well if they faced negative responses every time they
attempted to speak! <BR></FONT><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><BR><B>From:</B> Kingston, Deanna <A
href="mailto:deanna.kingston@OREGONSTATE.EDU"><mailto:deanna.kingston@OREGONSTATE.EDU></A>
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, March 18, 2011 10:51 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
ILAT@LISTSERV.ARIZONA.EDU <BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [ILAT] Response to Deb Roy's
study<BR><BR>Hi all,<BR>I am not a linguist and I do not know the literature
about language acquisition, so my comment is based upon my own experience with
trying to learn two different languages as an adult. It also is based on
my experience in having to teach my son in other ways due to his Asperger’s
Syndrome (potty training, comes to mind).<BR><BR>I am taking Neski’s
statement, which is his paraphrase of Deb Roy’s point, which is while the
parent is teaching the language to the child, the child is also teaching the
parent how to teach the language. <BR><BR>Through trial and error, I have
figured out the most effective ways of teaching my son, so he has taught me
which methods work and which don’t.<BR><BR>When I tried to speak the Iñupiaq
to elders in my community (King Island Iñupiat) taught at UAF in the mid-90s,
the elders several times would reply in English: “We don’t say that. Those
people up north (i.e., Barrow, which was the dialect we were being taught) say
that.” I was shut down and told that what I was taught through a formal
education system was not right.<BR><BR>I contrast that with how we teach
language to babies. There is constant positive encouragement and tremendous
patience (i.e., six months go to from “gaga” to “water”, taking into account
the development of the baby’s muscular development in his mouth).<BR><BR>As an
adult, at least in my experience, I haven’t received the constant positive
encouragement nor patience. So, it seems to me that creating such a learning
environment, with positive feedback loops, would be one key to language
acquistion. I know it would help me!! : )<BR>Deanna<BR><BR><BR><BR>On 3/17/11
2:46 PM, "Neskie Manuel" <neskiem@GMAIL.COM>
wrote:<BR><BR></FONT></SPAN></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><FONT
face="Calibri, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Weytk Everyone,<BR><BR>I disagree
with parts of the comment that was highlighted. I think<BR>his
line of inquiry was very useful and presented in a good way.<BR>What
Deb Roy appeared to be saying is there are feedback loops<BR>involved
in child-caregiver in language acquisition.<BR><BR>What I heard Deb
Roy say is something like, my statement.<BR><BR>The parent is teaching
the language to the child, and the child is<BR>teaching the parent how
to be a teacher of the language.<BR><BR>What are all the details
behind this I don't know and I don't really<BR>care. I just want
to know the important parts. I think us as<BR>Secwepemc people
knew this and expressed it in the statement 'children<BR>are the
closest to the creator'. As secwepemc people we had
something<BR>to learn from children. This was our feedback loop
we created.<BR><BR>Different pedagogies produce different feedback
loops, some are better<BR>at others, all require energy and work to
keep them going.<BR><BR>When I hear the word feedback loop, I think of
differential equations<BR>and large scale dynamical and chaotic
systems. Here I want to perform<BR>a thought experiment.
Let's say you could mathematically model<BR>language
acquisition with some set of differential equations and you<BR>want
language acquistiion to increase. This set of
differential<BR>equations will behave something like weather, in that
it will be<BR>sensitive to initial conditions, and boundary
values.<BR><BR>What this says to me is that we have to pay close
attention to the<BR>initial conditions we find ourselves in an what is
going on in the<BR>environment around language acquisition.<BR><BR>I
like your two questions Susan. I think a "mathematical" look
might<BR>be helpful. I would like to respond to them now, but I
have to run<BR>off.<BR><BR>On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Susan
Penfield<BR><susan.penfield@gmail.com> wrote:<BR>> A comment
from Rex Sprouse ( in italics and posted elsewhere) is worth<BR>>
considering in this context.<BR>><BR>>
Less than 5 minutes ago: Deb Roy appears
to equate the acquisition of a<BR>> word with the first (or with
the consistent?) production of an adult-like<BR>> pronunciation of
the word. However, words are much more complex
mental<BR>> objects, relating an abstract representation of sound,
grammatical category<BR>> (noun, verb, etc.), morpho-syntactic
features, semantic features, pragmatic<BR>> features, etc. No
matter how sophisticated the technology used for recording<BR>> the
child's speech, data about production alone can tell us about only
one<BR>> (and I must say, for me, the least interesting) aspect of
this cognitively<BR>> complex process.<BR>><BR>>
On a broader level, what I
found disappointing about the talk is that<BR>> it was difficult to
identify anything like a clear research question behind<BR>> the
collection of massive amounts of data. This is
a very central and<BR>> very divisive matter within current linguistics:
Recent technology has made<BR>> it easier to amass huge amounts of
linguistic data. However, in the absent<BR>> of theoretically
motivated research questions, it is difficult for me to buy<BR>>
into the notion that this represents genuine progress.<BR>><BR>>
-My thoughts: What I find interesting, considering the ILAT audience,
is how<BR>> very little we still know about language acquisition
(first and second) in<BR>> the context of
revitalization.<BR>> I would like to know about any targeted
research studies that would be<BR>> aimed at better understanding
the process. We have teaching methods<BR>> (immersion,
Master-Apprentice) which we all know are working in some<BR>>
contexts -- but how, specifically? And, what might we learn from
more<BR>> focused studies, that raise clear questions, which
actually might improve or<BR>> help us better understand what it
takes to help people learn in<BR>> non-traditional, less formal,
contexts?<BR>><BR>> Just trying to wrap my thoughts around all
of this...<BR>><BR>> S.-<BR>>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>>
Susan D. Penfield, Ph.D.<BR>><BR>> Research Coordinator, Center
for Educational Resources in Culture, Language<BR>> and Literacy
(CERCLL),<BR>> Faculty affiliate in English, Linguistics,
Language, Reading and Culture<BR>> Second Language Acquisition and
Teaching Ph.D. Program (SLAT),<BR>> American Indian Language
Development Institute (AILDI)<BR>> The Southwest Center<BR>>
University of Arizona,<BR>> Tucson, Arizona
85721<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR><BR><BR><BR>--<BR>Neskie Manuel<BR><A
href="http://neskiemanuel.ath.cx">http://neskiemanuel.ath.cx</A><BR>Tel:
(250) 679-2821<BR>SIP: mac@sip.ca2.link2voip.com<BR>Skype:
neskiemanuel<BR>Twitter: @neskiem<BR>Identi.ca: <A
href="http://identi.ca/neskie">http://identi.ca/neskie</A><BR><BR><BR></FONT></SPAN></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>