indoeuropean

[X99Lynx at aol.com]

In a message dated 6/29/1999 12:17:30 AM, Sunnet at worldnet.att.net writes:

<<Correction: Slavic *renka/ronka means "arm", not "hand". The word for "hand"
in Russian is /kist'/ - looks like it wasn't lost there after all.

Gene>>

On the road but checking the list and I couldn't let this one go by.

'Ruka/ruce' (Czech) and 'reka/rece' (Pol) definitely are hand/hands and have
been for many centuries.  Wherever <<*renka = arm>> comes from, it
demonstrates again that Russian and 'Slavic' are not equivalents.

In Czech, 'Naruci' will translate as 'arms'.  But this is no real surprise.
I recall that 'Cheir' itself can mean either or both hand and arm in the
Illiad.

In a message dated 6/28/1999 6:16:14 PM, georg at letmail.let.LeidenUniv.nl
writes:

<</manus/ seems to be able to claim an IE pedigree as well, with as yet
unknown semantic differences between it and *ghes-r-.... The other
possibility is that the more abstract meanings (circling around "power,
ability to protect athl.")
are older for this etymon, *ghes-r- being the anatomical term from the
beginning....

Other languages have replaced this apparently oldest word for "hand", to wit
Latin manus, Gothic handus,Baltic and Slavic *renka/ronka (from a verb
meaning "to grasp", cf.Lithuanian /rinkti/.>>

There is possibly another explanation for 'manus.'  'Mane^s' appears in Greek
as early as Aristophanes as a common word for a slave.  It is explained by
Strabo later on as being a name borrowed from the Phrygian.  Strabo explains
that the self-names of foreign captives became the nick-names used by the
Greeks - 'mane^s' being one of them given as an example.  'Mancips' of course
became the Latin word for a slave, particularly a captive.  The obvious
connection between hands and manual labor - be they farmhands or otherwise -
might explain the multiple sense.  And might even be the source of the
Germanic 'mann'.  The relation between 'androo'/'aner' and 'hand'/'manus'
might also be something to look into.

[ Moderator's note:
  These words obviously cannot be related.
  --rma ]

'Cheir' itself in C. Greek suggests the same relation between status and
'hand' - 'cheiron' in Homer refers to a person of 'meaner rank', inferior.

'*ghes-r-' as the original form for hand seems to be associated in Homer
(aside from cheir?) with such things as handcrafts - 'kestoros',(embroidery),
'keiro' (carving) cf. theros (harvest), ge^s (of the earth), keranos
(pottery, anything made of earth), kiste, ches/chernips/chersos (cups and
such), ar[i]/isteros (left handed).  Perhaps this was not THE original word,
but only one tradition among a craftsperson class.

[ Moderator's note:
  These words obviously cannot be related.
  --rma ]

There is also an odd thing that happens in early Greek.  'Dexios' refering
mainly only to the right hand, but with an obvious (to me at least) relation
to 'deka' (ten) suggesting the name for the count of fingers on both hands
was shifted to describe one hand but not the other.  'Endexios' in Homer
however refers to 'from one hand to the other', literally between hands,
possibly reflecting an earlier usage.

Finally there is again the Greek 'keiro' (to cut, carve) that would explain
churgeon/surgeon much more adequately than a direct connection to /cheir/.
In Aristophanes The Birds, 'keirulos' describes a barber.

[ Moderator's note:
  These words obviously cannot be related.
  --rma ]

Regards,
Steve Long