Chronology of the breakup of Common Romance [long]
Rick Mc Callister
rmccalli at sunmuw1.MUW.Edu
Sat Jul 10 21:42:54 UTC 1999
[snip]
>"Vlach" or "Wallach" seems to be descended from a name that was commonly
>applied to Celts.
It has long been proposed that the name Volcae, a Gaulish tribe,
was the source of Anglo-Saxon Wealh, Balkans Vlakh, Polish WLochy, etc.
The point I've generally seen is something to the extent that
supposedly the Volcae were the first Gaulish tribe to fall under Roman rule.
Some popular writers have also proposed Volcae as the source of
English "folk" but I've never seen this proposal from professional
linguists.
>Appearing as "Walh" or "Walah" in OHG, it has interpreted
>as meaning "foreigner", sometimes Roman, but in usage it is closely
>associated with Celts and regions of Celtic habitation - e.g., "Wales",
>"Walloon". I seem to recall an suggestion that there may be a tie here to L.
>vallum (fortified wall, the earliest meaning of "wall") and refer to the
>Celtic or Romano-Celtic oppidum or walled town.
You'd have to account for the ending in Vlakh, WLochy, etc.
>The strong Celtic presence along the Danube is attested by Classical writers
>well before the common era. E.g., Alexander fights them before turning
>against the Persians and meets Celts who are from Illyria. Galicia in
>southern Poland is a region whose name remembers a Celtic presence even
>farther north. I remember an old passage where Vlachs are identified as "the
>shepherds of the Romans" and in this role they may also have been imported
>help as they were in northern Italy.
Isn't the term Vlakh anachronistic in this sense? Vlakh is first
documented in the middle ages, isn't it?
[snip]
>The ancient ethnic designations in that part of the world are a little
>difficult to follow, but it seems clear that the whole region from Illyria
>to present day Romania was under Rome by 250 ace. And there is some
>possibility that Vlachs represented Romanized Celts across those regions. In
>any case, the small difference in time between Rome's entry into Illyria and
>into Dacia would be a de minimis factor.
My guess is that any Celtic element in the Balkan would have been
extremely thin.
The Celts raided the Balkans and stormed through the region on the
way to Galatia but my understanding is that they lived north of the Balkans
in Galatia and Pannonia
>In a message dated 6/20/99 5:55:33 PM, rmccalli at sunmuw1.MUW.Edu wrote:
><<Rumanian does share a common pre-Romance substrate with Albanian
>which presumibly should help pinpoint the origin of Rumanian.>>
>The suggested Thraco-Illyrian-Albanian substrate has always been called
>tentative, especially in light of potential borrowing across short distances
>where there would have been much opportunity for contact, particularly prior
>to the Slavic invasions of the Balkans.
>This brings up that familiar problem of finding a Celtic substrate, one that
>might be fruitful.
>E.g., one example of the Albanian substrate often given (per G. Mallinson)
>has been Rom. "abure"/ Alb. "avull" (steam.) But in Gaelic I see "co-bur"
>(foam), "to-bar" (well) and "bruich" (boil) - add the Gaelic "a-" (out of) to
>get /a-bruich (out of boiling- steam?) and the Celtic seems as possible as
>the Albanian as a source.
Following Larry Trask's post that "boil" words tend to be
onomatopoeic --largely based on "b-l, f-r" [e.g. "boil, bubble", fervire",
etc.] I'd be real careful with this one
>Another substrate example has been Rom. "vatra"/
>Alb. "vatre" (hearth), but perhaps forms like the Gaelic "fadadh" (kindling)
>and "bradhadair" (blazing fire) offers evidence of a common origin and
>original meaning for these later similarities.
>I haven't found any recent consideration of the Celtic remnants in this area,
>but I would think it might offer some real possibilities.
>In a message dated 6/20/99 5:55:33 PM, rmccalli at sunmuw1.MUW.Edu wrote:
[snip]
><<I seem to remember reading that while Albanian has a strong substrate, that
>it is significantly lacking in Ancient or Classical Greek substrate. If
>this is true, then it tells us where not to look...>>
>But the problem is that Rumanian does have a substantial Greek substrate (and
>had a larger one centuries ago before Rumanian was "purified" in recent
>times.)
As I understand, its substrate is from Byzantine and Modern Greek
but according to what I remember reading, it has little or no substrate
from Classical Greek.
[snip]
>Furthermore, given the extreme amount of intercourse between Greek and Thrace
>during those many early centuries, wouldn't one expect Thracian to have a
>strong and ancient Greek substrate, especially with regard to trade items and
>such? If Albanian doesn't have such substrate, it may not be Thracian.
Thracian was not necessarily a single entity. Some dialects may
have been influenced by Greek while others may have not. But I defer to
those who actually know something about Thracian.
Here's what I have in my notes on the subject. My apologies for
spacing.
Graham Mallinson, "Rumanian," 391-419. Martin Harris and Nigel
Vincent, eds. The Romance Languages. London: Croom Helm, 1988.
There is very little substrate vocabulary in Rumanian, and its
origin is unknown. Since the grouping of Dacian, Thracian and Illyrian
within IE is uncertain, it is questionable whether Albanian and Rumanian
shared a substrate language, although they do have cognates:
[ Moderator's note:
The following 8-bit entities are translated to TeX notation at the end of
the message.
--rma ]
ALBANIAN RUMANIAN
avull "steam" abure
mës "colt" mînz
përrua "brook" pîrîu
shkrump "ash" scrum
vatrë "hearth" vatra [413]
L. R. Palmer, The Latin Language London: Faber, 1954.
The Illyrians left geonyms in Apulia and Calabria:
Brundisium < Brendou elaphon "Stag's horn," see Albanian bri,ni "horn,"
Salapia and Salapitani < Selepitani < sal "salt," + ap "water,"
Otranto < Odruntum contains Messapic odra "water." [39]
Illyrian and/or Messapic words in Latin include
blatea < Illyrian balta "swamp,"
deda "nurse,"
paró "small ship,"
gandeia "gondola,"
hóreia "small fishing boat,"
mannus < Illyrian manda- "pony," see Messapic Menzana, to whom horses were
sacrificed. [40]
Lama "swamp," occurs as an element of Illyrian geonyms in Italy. [41]
A. Rosetti. Brève histoire de la langue roumaine des origines à nos jours.
The Hague: Mouton, 1971.
The Thracians, known as Gètes by Greek writers and Dacians by Latin
writers, left geonyms ending in -dava, -upa, -sara, -para, -bria. [51]
Illyrian words included
Bardylis (proper name) > Albanian i bardhë "white,"
dranis (Greek elaphos) > Gheg dreni, Tosk drëri "stag,"
Dalmatia, Delminium (probably Bosnian Duvno) > Albanian dele, delme "schaf,"
Dardani > Albanian dardhë "pear, pear tree, compare Illyrian dardá "pear,"
Messapian Menzana "Jupiter," > Albanian mës, mëz-i "mule," Daco-Romanian
mînz "poulain." [52]
Thracian words include
bría "city," vs. Tokharian ri, riye "city,"
deva, dava "city, village," e.g. Pupuldeva > Bulgarian Plovdiv;
bur-, bour- > Albanian burrë "male"
Drénis (proper name) > Albanian drê, drêni "stag," zeiz, zis, ziz >
Albanian i zi, e zëzë "black,"
manteía, mantua, mantia "Brombeere, Brombeerebaum (blackberry) > Albanian
man, mand "Maulbeerbaum, Maulbeere,"
xarpáies (Carpathians) < carpa > Albanian karpë "rock," xarpoi (Tribe from
north of Thrace) > Albanian karpë "Fels,"
xorpíloi (Tribe from south of Thrace),
Maluensis, Maluese, Maluntum (geonyms) > Albanian mal "mountain, mountain
range, Daco-Romanian mal "escarpment, mountain, riverbank, seashore,"
pinon, pinos > Albanian pi "drink," Albanian pirë "drunk,"
Dacian sxiáre "chardon" > Albanian shqer "reisse auseinander, zerreiser,
kratze." [52]
The Daco-Romanian suffix -esc > Thracian -isk. [53]
Certain words are the same or cognate in Albanian and Daco-Romanian:
Albanian Romanian
buzë "lip, edge" buzâ "lip, edge"
këlbazë, gëlbazé câlbeazâ, gâlbeazâ
(sheep illness) (clavelée)
këpushë "tick" câpus,â "tick"
avull "Dunst" abur "steam"
bres, brez "Gürtel" brîu "waist, belt"
ragal "hat" argea "voûte d'une cave"
baç "fromager" baci "fromager"
bollë "dragon, monster" balaur "dragon, monster"
baigë "Veternarian" balegâ "fiente"
baltê baltâ "lagoon, pond, lake"
i bardhê "white" barzâ "stork"
baskë "Fliess" bascâ "toison, laine"
pellg "Weiher, Regenpfütze" bîlc "flaque, mare, bourbier"
berr "Schaf, Weidevieh" bîr (sheep call)
bredh "Tanne" brad "sapin"
byk "pàglia" buc "balle du blé"
bukurê "pretty" bucurie "joy"
bungu "Eiche" bunget "thick part of forest"
kêsulê cap, stocking cap câciulâ "bonnet de fourrure"
katund "village" câtun "hamlet"
qafë "Kehle, Hals" ceafâ "nuque"
çok "Fussfessel, Schnabel" cioc "beak, point, prow"
sorrë "Krähe" ciocâ "summit"
çufkë "Quaste, Maishaar" ciuf "tignasse, huppe"
thump "Stachel" ciump "bout, chicot, moignon"
çupis "picke" ciupi "picorer"
shut "ohne hörner" ciut "écorné"
koqë "berry" coacâzâ "berry"
kopil "young man" copil "child"
kulpërë "clématite sauvage" curpen "clématite des Alpes"
kurthë "Falle, Fangeisen" cursâ "trappe, piège, embûche"
droe "fruit" droiae "band, troop, many"
dru, drutë "wood, stick" druete "short thick piece of wood"
thërrimë "crumb, debris" fârîmâ "debris"
gardh "Hecke, Zaun" gard "enclosure"
gat "bereit" gata "near"
gjëmle "thorn" ghimpe "thorn, needle"
gjon "Nacheteule" ghionoaie "pivert"
gjysh "grandfather" ghuij "old"
gogë "Gespenst, Wauwau" gogâ "mitten"
grep "Haken" grapâ "herse"
gërresë "Schabholz, Schabeisen" gresie "grès, pierre a aiguiser"
gurmaz "Kehle" grumaz "neck, throat"
grundë "Kleie" grunz "grumeau, pelote"
gropë "Grube, Graben, Grab" graopâ "tomb, ditch"
gushë "Hals, cock's dewlap" gus,â "throat, goiter"
hamës "scarfer" hames, "avid"
gjymës "half" jumâtate "half"
i lehtë "leicht" lete "slowly"
hudhër "Knoblauch" leurdâ "wild garlic"
magulë "hill" mâgurâ "hill, height"
mal "mountain (range)" mal "escarpment, edge, shore"
i math, i mall "great, big" mare "great, big"
maraj "fennel" mârar "fennel"
modhullë "peas" mazâre "peas"
moshë "Greis, Alter" mos, "old (man), grandfather"
mugull "Pfropfreis, Spross" mugur "bourgeon"
murg "dark, black, gray" murg "brown"
mushk "Maulesel" mus,coi "mulet"
nëpërke "viper" nâpîrcâ "viper"
ujü,"water" ujane "ocean" noian "ocean, vastness"
përroa "riverbed, brook" pârâu "torrent"
pupëzë "bird" pupë "Wiedehopf", pupazâ "huppe"
rëndës "Lab" rînzâ "gésier, cow's stomach"
thabët "sour" sarbât "sour, curdled"
shkrep "schlage Funken, Feuer" scâpâra "to spark, to kindle"
shkrumb "alles Verkohlte" scrum "ash, cinder, coal"
thumbëz "Knopf" sîmbure "nugget, nougat, seed"
shpendër "hellebore" spînz "hellebore"
shpuzë "glowing coal" spuzâ "hot coal"
shtrep "worm" strepede "worm"
shtrungë Abteilung des Pferchs" "strungâ "defile"
shapi "eidechse" s,opîrlâ "lizard"
cjap "Ziegenbock" t,ap "buck, stag"
thark "pen, corral" t,arc "pen, menagerie"
thep "point, sharp rock" t,eapâ "point"
udhos "cheese" urdâ "cottage cheese"
votër, vatrë "fireplace" vatrâ "fireplace"
vjedull "burrowing mammal" viezure "blaireau"
dhallë "sour milk" zarâ "curdled milk"
shkardhë "Hundekette" zgardâ "dog collar" [58-62]
John A. C. Greppin Grolier Electronic Encyclopedia
Phrygian
Phrygian, a language of west central Anatolia, had two literary
periods, Old Phrygian (730-430 BC) & New Phrygian (AD 100-350). The later
stage used a Greek-like script; the earlier had an eclectic alphabet based
on Northwest Semitic models. Though of Indo-European origin, Phrygian is
poorly understood, especially in the writing of the earlier period. It
seems to be more closely related to Greek, but it also shows certain
affinities with Armenian. An older theory, no longer tenable, related
Phrygian to Thracian, & posited a Thraco-Phrygian language family.
Thracian
Thracian was spoken in what is now Bulgaria & parts of Greece &
Turkey. No significant inscriptions exist but numerous words are known from
Greek & Roman texts. A large number of personal & place names have also
been recorded. Thracian is Indo-European, but its affinities to any
language other than Dacian & perhaps Phrygian are vague.
Dacian
Also referred to as Getic, Dacian was spoken in what is now
Romania. Like Thracian, it is known both from words mentioned in Greek &
Latin texts, & also from proper names. It has recently been shown that
Dacian became distinct from Thracian, but this took place probably after
1500 BC. Some scholars believe that a Dacian layer underlies Albanian, &
that perhaps Dacian, rather than Illyrian, was the original form of that
language.
Illyrian
Illyrian was spoken north & west of Greece during the Greco-Roman
period. Scholars are unsure whether the term refers to just one language or
many. Most evidence for Illyrian comes from proper names; the core of the
material is now called Messapic. Illyrian has been considered an ancient
form of Albanian, but this view is losing favor.
Rick Mc Callister
W-1634
Mississippi University for Women
Columbus MS 39701
[ Moderator re-encoding (experimental) ]
ALBANIAN RUMANIAN
avull "steam" abure
m{\"e}s "colt" m{\^i}nz
p{\"e}rrua "brook" p{\^i}r{\^i}u
shkrump "ash" scrum
vatr{\"e} "hearth" vatra [413]
L. R. Palmer, The Latin Language London: Faber, 1954.
The Illyrians left geonyms in Apulia and Calabria:
Brundisium < Brendou elaphon "Stag's horn," see Albanian bri,ni "horn,"
Salapia and Salapitani < Selepitani < sal "salt," + ap "water,"
Otranto < Odruntum contains Messapic odra "water." [39]
Illyrian and/or Messapic words in Latin include
blatea < Illyrian balta "swamp,"
deda "nurse,"
par{\'o} "small ship,"
gandeia "gondola,"
h{\'o}reia "small fishing boat,"
mannus < Illyrian manda- "pony," see Messapic Menzana, to whom horses were
sacrificed. [40]
Lama "swamp," occurs as an element of Illyrian geonyms in Italy. [41]
A. Rosetti. Br{\`e}ve histoire de la langue roumaine des origines {\`a} nos
jours. The Hague: Mouton, 1971.
The Thracians, known as G{\`e}tes by Greek writers and Dacians by Latin
writers, left geonyms ending in -dava, -upa, -sara, -para, -bria. [51]
Illyrian words included
Bardylis (proper name) > Albanian i bardh{\"e} "white,"
dranis (Greek elaphos) > Gheg dreni, Tosk dr{\"e}ri "stag,"
Dalmatia, Delminium (probably Bosnian Duvno) > Albanian dele, delme "schaf,"
Dardani > Albanian dardh{\"e} "pear, pear tree, compare Illyrian dard{\'a}
"pear," Messapian Menzana "Jupiter," > Albanian m{\"e}s, m{\"e}z-i "mule,"
Daco-Romanian m{\^i}nz "poulain." [52]
Thracian words include
br{\'i}a "city," vs. Tokharian ri, riye "city,"
deva, dava "city, village," e.g. Pupuldeva > Bulgarian Plovdiv;
bur-, bour- > Albanian burr{\"e} "male"
Dr{\'e}nis (proper name) > Albanian dr{\^e}, dr{\^e}ni "stag," zeiz, zis, ziz >
Albanian i zi, e z{\"e}z{\"e} "black,"
mante{\'i}a, mantua, mantia "Brombeere, Brombeerebaum (blackberry) > Albanian
man, mand "Maulbeerbaum, Maulbeere,"
xarp{\'a}ies (Carpathians) < carpa > Albanian karp{\"e} "rock," xarpoi (Tribe from
north of Thrace) > Albanian karp{\"e} "Fels,"
xorp{\'i}loi (Tribe from south of Thrace),
Maluensis, Maluese, Maluntum (geonyms) > Albanian mal "mountain, mountain
range, Daco-Romanian mal "escarpment, mountain, riverbank, seashore,"
pinon, pinos > Albanian pi "drink," Albanian pir{\"e} "drunk,"
Dacian sxi{\'a}re "chardon" > Albanian shqer "reisse auseinander, zerreiser,
kratze." [52]
The Daco-Romanian suffix -esc > Thracian -isk. [53]
Certain words are the same or cognate in Albanian and Daco-Romanian:
Albanian Romanian
buz{\"e} "lip, edge" buz{\^a} "lip, edge"
k{\"e}lbaz{\"e}, g{\"e}lbaz{\'e} c{\^a}lbeaz{\^a}, g{\^a}lbeaz{\^a}
(sheep illness) (clavel{\'e}e)
k{\"e}push{\"e} "tick" c{\^a}pus,{\^a} "tick"
avull "Dunst" abur "steam"
bres, brez "G{\"u}rtel" br{\^i}u "waist, belt"
ragal "hat" argea "vo{\^u}te d'une cave"
ba{\c c} "fromager" baci "fromager"
boll{\"e} "dragon, monster" balaur "dragon, monster"
baig{\"e} "Veternarian" baleg{\^a} "fiente"
balt{\^e} balt{\^a} "lagoon, pond, lake"
i bardh{\^e} "white" barz{\^a} "stork"
bask{\"e} "Fliess" basc{\^a} "toison, laine"
pellg "Weiher, Regenpf{\"u}tze" b{\^i}lc "flaque, mare, bourbier"
berr "Schaf, Weidevieh" b{\^i}r (sheep call)
bredh "Tanne" brad "sapin"
byk "p{\`a}glia" buc "balle du bl{\'e}"
bukur{\^e} "pretty" bucurie "joy"
bungu "Eiche" bunget "thick part of forest"
k{\^e}sul{\^e} cap, stocking cap c{\^a}ciul{\^a} "bonnet de fourrure"
katund "village" c{\^a}tun "hamlet"
qaf{\"e} "Kehle, Hals" ceaf{\^a} "nuque"
{\c c}ok "Fussfessel, Schnabel" cioc "beak, point, prow"
sorr{\"e} "Kr{\"a}he" cioc{\^a} "summit"
{\c c}ufk{\"e} "Quaste, Maishaar" ciuf "tignasse, huppe"
thump "Stachel" ciump "bout, chicot, moignon"
{\c c}upis "picke" ciupi "picorer"
shut "ohne h{\"o}rner" ciut "{\'e}corn{\'e}"
koq{\"e} "berry" coac{\^a}z{\^a} "berry"
kopil "young man" copil "child"
kulp{\"e}r{\"e} "cl{\'e}matite sauvage"
curpen "cl{\'e}matite des Alpes"
kurth{\"e} "Falle, Fangeisen" curs{\^a} "trappe, pi{\`e}ge,
emb{\^u}che"
droe "fruit" droiae "band, troop, many"
dru, drut{\"e} "wood, stick" druete "short thick piece of wood"
th{\"e}rrim{\"e} "crumb, debris" f{\^a}r{\^i}m{\^a} "debris"
gardh "Hecke, Zaun" gard "enclosure"
gat "bereit" gata "near"
gj{\"e}mle "thorn" ghimpe "thorn, needle"
gjon "Nacheteule" ghionoaie "pivert"
gjysh "grandfather" ghuij "old"
gog{\"e} "Gespenst, Wauwau" gog{\^a} "mitten"
grep "Haken" grap{\^a} "herse"
g{\"e}rres{\"e} "Schabholz, Schabeisen"
gresie "gr{\`e}s, pierre a aiguiser"
gurmaz "Kehle" grumaz "neck, throat"
grund{\"e} "Kleie" grunz "grumeau, pelote"
grop{\"e} "Grube, Graben, Grab" graop{\^a} "tomb, ditch"
gush{\"e} "Hals, cock's dewlap" gus,{\^a} "throat, goiter"
ham{\"e}s "scarfer" hames, "avid"
gjym{\"e}s "half" jum{\^a}tate "half"
i leht{\"e} "leicht" lete "slowly"
hudh{\"e}r "Knoblauch" leurd{\^a} "wild garlic"
magul{\"e} "hill" m{\^a}gur{\^a} "hill, height"
mal "mountain (range)" mal "escarpment, edge, shore"
i math, i mall "great, big" mare "great, big"
maraj "fennel" m{\^a}rar "fennel"
modhull{\"e} "peas" maz{\^a}re "peas"
mosh{\"e} "Greis, Alter" mos, "old (man), grandfather"
mugull "Pfropfreis, Spross" mugur "bourgeon"
murg "dark, black, gray" murg "brown"
mushk "Maulesel" mus,coi "mulet"
n{\"e}p{\"e}rke "viper" n{\^a}p{\^i}rc{\^a} "viper"
uj{\"u},"water" ujane "ocean" noian "ocean, vastness"
p{\"e}rroa "riverbed, brook" p{\^a}r{\^a}u "torrent"
pup{\"e}z{\"e} "bird" pup{\"e} "Wiedehopf", pupaz{\^a}
"huppe"
r{\"e}nd{\"e}s "Lab" r{\^i}nz{\^a} "g{\'e}sier, cow's
stomach"
thab{\"e}t "sour" sarb{\^a}t "sour, curdled"
shkrep "schlage Funken, Feuer" sc{\^a}p{\^a}ra "to spark, to kindle"
shkrumb "alles Verkohlte" scrum "ash, cinder, coal"
thumb{\"e}z "Knopf" s{\^i}mbure "nugget, nougat, seed"
shpend{\"e}r "hellebore" sp{\^i}nz "hellebore"
shpuz{\"e} "glowing coal" spuz{\^a} "hot coal"
shtrep "worm" strepede "worm"
shtrung{\"e} "Abteilung des Pferchs"
strung{\^a} "defile"
shapi "eidechse" s,op{\^i}rl{\^a} "lizard"
cjap "Ziegenbock" t,ap "buck, stag"
thark "pen, corral" t,arc "pen, menagerie"
thep "point, sharp rock" t,eap{\^a} "point"
udhos "cheese" urd{\^a} "cottage cheese"
vot{\"e}r, vatr{\"e} "fireplace" vatr{\^a} "fireplace"
vjedull "burrowing mammal" viezure "blaireau"
dhall{\"e} "sour milk" zar{\^a} "curdled milk"
shkardh{\"e} "Hundekette" zgard{\^a} "dog collar" [58-62]
[ End of moderator re-encoding (experimental) ]
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