PIE and Proto-Language

[Patrick C. Ryan]

Dear Ralf-Stefan and IEists:

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Ralf-Stefan Georg <Georg at home.ivm.de>
Sent: Monday, July 19, 1999 4:36 AM

>> Pat interjects:

>> Here I think you are dangerously introducing the mistaken terminology of the
>> opposing argument. I do *not* look for "look-alikes"; I only am interested
>> in "cognates" the phonological forms of which can be supported through
>> multiple comparisons. For example, one set of interesting IE and Sumerian
>> "cognates" shows IE *-wey- = Sumerian -g{~}-; interestingly, this
>> development *is* found in *some* IE languages, like nearby Armenian.

Ralf-Stefan responds:

> "interestingly" ? Why interestingly ? The only way this could be
> "interesting" would, imho, be to base a claim of Leskienian solidaric
> innovation on it, leading to a Sumero-Armenian subgroup of Indo-European.
> Very interesting.
> Or some kind of areal phenomenon, potentially interesting (this time
> without irony). But: supposing for a split-second that IE and Sumerian are
> somehow related, the /w/ --> /g/ shift would be something very old, right?
> Now, the Armenian /w/ ---> /g/ shift is young, since known loanwords
> participate in it (so young actually, that Kartvelian managed to preserve
> the intermediary stage /gw/ in some of those LWs). And of course, even if
> chronology were no obstacle, the whole thing still begs the question of
> Sumero-IE, but I understand that this is a) not a topic for this list and
> b) that I don't stand the slightest shred of a chance to talk you out of
> it; so I don't try.

Pat responds:

I do not know of any ready way tp gauge how old or young the phenomenon is
in Sumerian. But, I regard it probably as an areal phenomenon.

Also, as I perface every essay I have written with a caveat against assuming
that I regard IE and any compared language as particularly close, there is
no real question of "Sumero-IE" for me. On the other hand, Gordon Whittaker
in Goettinger Beitraege zur Sprachwissenschaft feels rather differently
about it. His idea is that Sumerian was imposed on an IE substratum. His
article is interesting for the many valid comparisons he makes (IMHO)
between some Sumerian words and IE ones.

Pat

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