accusative and ergative languages

[Larry Trask]

On Mon, 19 Jul 1999, Patrick C. Ryan wrote:

[PR]

>>> Now, when Larry recently quoted Dixon about the nature of the
>>> ergative, he conveniently neglected to mention that Dixon
>>> acknowledged that there were currently practising linguists --- not
>>> amateur linguists like myself --- still defending the passive
>>> interpretation of ergative constructions.

[LT]

>> No; this is not so.  Read p. 189 of Dixon's 1994 book.

[PR]

> I suggest you read it. "But we do still encounter scholars who
> insist that there is a necessary diachronic connection, e.g. Estival
> and Myhill (1988:445): 'we propose here the hypothesis that in fact
> all ergative constructions have developed from passives'."  Are you
> suggesting that Estival and Myhill are not "linguists", or that
> Shibatani, in whose book this essay appeared, is not a "linguist"?
> The quotation above is from p. 189 of Dixon's 1994 book. What are
> you playing at?

The question is not what I'm playing at, but what you're playing at.

Your original assertion was that the passive interpretation of ergative
languages was not only defensible but, in your view, correct.  By this
you clearly meant that ergative constructions, in general, *are*
passives.  This is the view which was once popular among European
linguists, which has been effectively demolished, and which is correctly
dismissed by Dixon elsewhere on that same page as without support among
linguists today.

The point in your cited passage is an entirely different one: do all
ergatives derive historically from passives?  Dixon notes that a few
people have argued that the answer is `yes', but then goes on to provide
what, in his view, is good evidence that the correct answer is `no'.

Whatever view one might adopt on this second point, it is clearly
distinct from the first point.  Claiming that "all ergatives *descend*
from passives" is the same proposition as "all ergatives *are* passives"
is rather like claiming that "all humans descend from their
grandparents" is the same proposition as "all humans *are* their
grandparents.

Larry Trask
COGS
University of Sussex
Brighton BN1 9QH
UK

larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk