Contributions by Steve Long

[Stanley Friesen]

At 05:34 PM 9/30/99 +0100, Larry Trask wrote:
>Is Serbo-Croatian a single language, or are Serbian, Bosnian and
>Croatian three different languages?  Well, until a few years ago,
>practically everybody, including the locals, was happy to agree there
>was only the one language.  But, since the breakup of Yugoslavia, things
>have changed: the locals are now insisting heatedly that there are three
>different languages.  No linguistic change led to this change of view:
>only political events did.  But now the linguistic changes are
>following, as the three groups scramble to distance their own speech
>from that of the others.

This actually accords with what one book on linguistic change suggested is
the *main* cause of language change: a social desire to differentiate one's
group from some other group.  (Unfortunately I cannot locate the book right
now).

>Right.  So a language can co-exist with its own descendant?
>I don't think so, and I think this conclusion can be destroyed by what
>Llyod elsewhere calls "simple logic".

>Is the English of 1999 "the same language" as the English of 1998?
>I take it that Lloyd and Steve would at once answer "yes".
>So: is the English of 1998 "the same language" as the English of 1997?
>If you answered "yes" the first time, you must answer "yes" now.
>But you can see where this leading.  If the answer is "yes", then, by
>transitivity, the English of 1999 is "the same language" as the English
>of King Alfred the Great 1000 years ago.  Are you happy with this?

There is another way out of this dilemma.  At least in many cases
substantial language change occurs in a *single* generation.  In the
history of English, one such case occurred during the Wars of Roses, and
separates Middle English from Modern English.

And it is occurring right now for the Blackfoot language, with older tribe
members speaking Old Blackfoot, and the younger ones speaking New
Blackfoot.  The changes are quite substantial, and include replacement of
vowel+glottal stop with a long/creaky vowel.

>Take a real case in this vein.  Is modern Greek "the same language" as
>ancient Greek?  If not, where's the cutoff point?

One of two places:
1. at some historical point where there was a major break between
successive generations.

2. at the point where any older dialects are not easily comprehensible to
someone knowing the modern literary standard language.  (Choosing the
literary standard here  deals with the issue of the subtle changes over
time in modern Greek).

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May the peace of God be with you.         sarima at ix.netcom.com