Pre-Basque phonology (fwd)

[Eduard Selleslagh]

-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Trask <larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk>
Date: Friday, September 24, 1999 5:26 AM

>On Sun, 19 Sep 1999, Eduard Selleslagh wrote:

>[on Basque <ke> `smoke']

>> Two remarks:

>> 1.  KE could be related (but how?) to Greek KAPNO'S, ''smoke', i.e.
>> to the first syllable, the second being derived from the IE root
>> that gave rise to Grk. pneuma, 'breath, wind, etc.', Lat. ventus,
>> 'wind' and Eng. wind.

>I don't think this is the etymology preferred by specialists.  It
>certainly isn't the one preferred by Buck, who relates Greek <kapnos> to
>Lithuanian <kvapas> `breath, vapor', probably Latin <vapor> `vapor,
>steam', and Gothic <af-hwapjan> `choke', "etc."  Watkins appears to
>accept this, at least broadly, and he implies that Pokorny does too, but
>I don't have Pokorny handy.

[Ed Selleslagh]

It always looked to me as if the specialists were at a loss to come up with a
good IE etymology of <kapnós> (and the verb <kapnizo>, 'to smoke'). The
relatively well-known etymologies you cite are rather difficult to defend in a
straightforward way: among themselves, the Lithuanian, Latin and Gothic words
are consistent with a common ascendance (root: kuep-, with long e) (even though
Lat. vapor ought to be 'quapor'?), but <kapnós> is hard to fit into the
series: why isn't the kv/hw/v (actually /w/) /p/ in Greek, as it should? Where
does the -n- of -pn- fit in (from a derivative affix?)?

>> I am not sure whether KAPNO'S is considered entirely IE, but if it
>> is, the Basque word isn't original Basque.

>This doesn't follow.  Whatever the source of the Greek word, I can see
>no case for deriving the Basque word from the Greek, or from any other
>IE source.  Basque has never been in contact with Greek, which in any
>event has no form that could serve as a source for <ke>, and no suitable
>cognate is attested in any IE language known to have been in contact
>with Basque.

[Ed]
Supposing KE is derived from KAPNÓS, that is.

I wouldn't be so sure Basque has never been in contact with Greek: at a certain
moment, Basque (or a Pyrenean ancestor or relative ) may have been spoken
sufficiently far down the SE Pyrenees, where it could have connected with Greek
settlements or their sphere of cultural influence (e.g. Ampurias). The Iberians
were heavily influenced by the Greek, anyway.

On the other hand, the first syllable of Gr. KAPNÓS may be of a common non-IE
origin.

>> 2. If it is of IE origin, maybe via ancient Greek, the aspiration
>> would be secondary, I think.

>The Basque aspiration appears to be generally of suprasegmental origin
>anyway, and not of segmental origin.

[Ed]
As you said, 'generally'.

Ed.