"is the same as"

[Stanley Friesen]

At 12:26 PM 2/4/00 -0700, Dr. John E. McLaughlin wrote:

>But prokaryotes are EXTREMELY simple creatures.  Language is not simple.

That is beside the point.  The presence of lateral transmission of genes
confuses cladistic analyses.  Similarly interaction between languages in
contact has the potential to confuse cladistic analysis of languages.
Complexity does not enter into the issue.

[As an aside, even the simplest known prokaryote is probably more complex
in some measures than any human language]

>languages, the result was a completely "fertile" offspring--Tok Pisin.  You
>mention that a lion and a leopard can interbreed, yet is the offspring
>fertile?

Yes.

> Or even capable of surviving to adulthood?

Yes.

> The only instances of
>cross-species breeding among complex organisms in any case are man-caused
>and artificial.

Incorrect.  Interspecifc hybrids are quite common in nature, if one looks
carefully enough.  The oak example is particularly interesting.  There are
fossils of hybrid oaks from over a million years ago - hybrids between two
species that are still producing hybrids today!  (I believe this case was
scarlet and black oaks).  But there are hybrid zones between species in
many parts of the world.  There is a species of butterfly in the SW deserts
that is absorbing a closely related species.

But even then, this level of detail is less important than the simple point
that there are fewer unique factors in historical linguistics than you
believe.  Of course NO analogy stands up to minute scrutiny.  I do not
intend this analogy to be carried to such extremes.  The main point is that
it is foolish to reject the accumulated wisdom of biology just because of
some perceived differences in the problems being faced.

Now, it is true that biologists have not yet fully dealt with the issue of
cross-specific gene transfer in analyzing phylogenies,, since its
importance has only recently been discovered.  Thus it is quite possible
that in this area linguists are actually ahead of the game.

>  While cross-species permanent genetic influence is only
>found in very limited circumstances among very simple creatures

It is only found *routinely* in the relatively simple prokaryotes.  But it
is not exactly rare even in land animals and flowering plants.

The case of the absorption of one butterfly species by its cousin is a
rather flagrant case of cross-species genetic influence.

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May the peace of God be with you.         sarima at ix.netcom.com