"centum"/"satem" "exceptions" [was Re: Northwest IE attributes]

Patrick C. Ryan proto-language at email.msn.com
Tue Jan 25 19:18:50 UTC 2000


Dear Miguel and IEists:

 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Miguel Carrasquer Vidal" <mcv at wxs.nl>
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2000 1:53 AM

[ moderator snip ]

[MC]
> It is clear that a system with both palatalization and
> labialization, as I advocate for (Pre-)PIE, is not stable.

[PR]
What makes that so "clear"?

[MC continued]
> Old
> Irish (as the result of a much later and independent development)
> had both i-coloured (palatalized, slender) and u-coloured
> consonants, but the u-colouring quickly became marginal and was
> lost before Middle Irish. The loss of jers in Slavic has led to a
> full series of palatalized consonants, but not to a parallel set
> of labialized/velarized consonants (not at the phonological level
> at least).  By the time of common PIE, the plain-palatalized-
> labialized distinction had only been retained in the velar stops,

[PR]
I prefer the explanation of the odd circumstance of many roots of apparently
identical form with apparently unrelated meanings in IE as an evidence that
palatalizated and velarized as well as plain consonants allowed them to be
distinguished until root extensions began to fulfil the same function.

[MC continued]
> and there too the system was in the process of breaking down,
> with confusions between palatalized-plain or plain-labialized,
> which account for the hesitations we find even among the ranks of
> the two main blocks ("satem" and "centum").  The generalization
> of front *e as the "default" vowel may have favoured the
> palatals, while certain positions may have had specific effects
> (e.g. de-palatalization before *r [*k^r > *kr], or
> de-labiaization before *u [*kwu > *ku]).  But that still leaves
> plenty of non-palatal, non-labiovelar "plain velars" which cannot
> be explained away.

[PR]
I heartily subscribe to this conclusion. My reconstructions are based on an
earlier system of Ce/Ca/Co breaking down in C{y}V, CV, and C{w}V, with
subsequent loss of the glides.

Pat

PATRICK C. RYAN | PROTO-LANGUAGE at email.msn.com (501) 227-9947 * 9115 W. 34th
St. Little Rock, AR 72204-4441 USA WEBPAGES: PROTO-LANGUAGE:
http://www.geocities.com/proto-language/ and PROTO-RELIGION:
http://www.geocities.com/proto-language/proto-religion/indexR.html "Veit ek,
at ek hekk, vindga meipi, nftr allar nmu, geiri undapr . . . a ~eim meipi er
mangi veit hvers hann af rstum renn." (Havamal 138)



More information about the Indo-european mailing list