Pre-PIE as a PIE substrate?

[Steve Gustafson]

Steve Long wrote:

> My question is: what would such a substrate be like?  What would one look
> for?  Thinking of other examples of where IE has folded over on itself, so to
> speak -- where one IE language exhibits a substrate of an earlier IE language
> -- where would one look for such a "pre-proto" substrate in PIE?  How would
> one separate "pre-proto" features from "proto" features, since both would
> ultimately be of the same origin?

Perhaps what you'd need to look for is a vocabulary --- especially a
vocabulary referring to local features, arts, or cultural practises --- that
is still recognisably IE, but which has been subjected to a radically
different set of sound changes.

English as she is spoke in Western movies displays an obvious substrate
influence.  You have some words that conform to expectations for ordinary
English words, like "ranch."  You have others that stick out, more or less,
like "canyon," "bronco," and "hoosegow."  These words [AFAIK] are all of IE
origin, but they took a different path into English.  In pre-literate times
the connection between "hoosegow" and an earlier import "judge" might be
hard to figure, much less the connection between "ranch" and "ring."

There is an obvious and similar substrate in Germanic, apparently the
language of the Ship and Sword Guys; not sure if they have a technical
academic name.  Like the Western movie words, the borrowed vocabulary seems
to have focused on cultural territory that was retained by the
proto-Germans.  Boating is the area that sticks out most prominently; most
Germanic languages share a group of unique words like ship, keel, oar, and
sail.  There is another group that features swords, knives, and helmets.
The proto-Germans apparently respected these folks, and their arts and
culture, enough to borrow both the cultural practices and the vocabulary
that went with.

Various attempts have been made to give IE derivations to several of these
distinctive Germanic words; most require some violence to expected sound
changes.  They seem recognisable as a substrate because they are culturally
connected, and either non-IE or, if IE, they went together through strange
changes in Germanic that aren't found elsewhere.

--

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