"nightmare"

[X99Lynx at aol.com]

I wrote:
> Now what's a little odd about this is that, in this tradition, the mara
> "rides" you.  The Old Norse for horse (of either gender) -- marr -- might
> have been source of this confusion.  But the "riding" element also occurs in
> some of the earliest references in English.  The OED cites a quote from
> 1000AD: "Gif mon mare ride..."

In a message dated 10/23/2000 9:14:26 PM, larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk writes:
<<Yes, but the Old English verb did not mean exclusively 'sit on a horse'.
It also commonly meant 'sit on (anything)', 'perch on (anything)'.  This use
is attested as early as Beowulf, according to the OED, and it was common in
early English. >>

Well, the original OED does not have it as quite that common at all, and
gives the definition of a non-horse use (that I believe you are referring to)
with a key qualification: "To sit or be carried on or upon something after
the manner of one on horseback..."   So the usage you refer to is sent right
back to horses, an analogy.  Almost all the early quotes cited apply to
horses or other animals, especially the intransitive.  I believe even the
first use of ride with a wagon is only dated from 1300.  And the earlier
etymology given have to do with "traveling" and nothing to do with sitting or
perching.

There's simple logic involved here.  There were all kinds of spirits in the
ancient times and in the early middle ages that would restrain you, fall upon
you and do you physical violence of all sorts, but as far as I can tell, only
the mare "rides" you.

 In an earlier message, larryt at cogs.susx.ac.uk writes:
<< With the disappearance of the original 'mare' from the language, an
obvious folk-etymology has led to the reinterpretation of the second part of
'nightmare' as the unrelated word 'mare' (= 'female horse'). >>

And of course there is no reason why "mare" wouldn't have been interpreted
this way before it disappeared from the language.  It would be odd indeed if
early folk didn't see the possible connection, but all of a sudden it struck
everyone when "night" was added.  Especially when we are told that the
"mare-induced bad dream is called... martrö<eth> (mare-ride) in Anglo-Saxon
and Icelandic, mareridt (mare-ride) in Danish, mareritt (mare-ride) in
Norwegian,..."

And it's quite clear that the victims in the more dramatic examples are not
merely be being perched or sat on, but as in the "Ynglingasaga" are being
stomped to death.

Larry Trask also writes:
<<So, there is nothing odd about speaking of the (night)mare as 'riding' its
victim.>>

I don't know about that!!!   I won't ask how often you get "ridden" every
day.  Or night.  I guess that the habit of battling dubious etymologies can
motivate one to find it common for all sorts of things to "ride" humans.  The
last time anything "rode" me, however, it was a five-year old who kept
yelling, "giddy-up!"  Not something I have had happen to me otherwise.  And
so rather odd indeed.

<<...we ride horses, but horses don't ride us.>>

Unless, of course, that riding is done by "mares."  Meanings are never as
neat and tidy as we'd like for them to be.  Meanings definitely don't follow
the paths of genetic descent.   Meanings keep popping up in the wrong
pigeon-holes.

Regards,
Steve Long