Word Order and verb endings

[proto-language]

Dear Jens, Kreso, and IEists:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jens Elmegaard Rasmussen" <jer at cphling.dk>
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 6:21 PM

> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001, Kreso Megyeral wrote:

>> [... W]hat is general opinion on theory that PIE had the opposition
>> between indefinite and definite conjugation, as Hungarian does. Some
>> of the linguists interpret thematic vowel in declension and
>> conjugation as some kind of suffixated article. The theory is proved
>> by the fact that there is no intransitive thematic vowel of
>> undisputable IE origin. Your attitudes?

[JER]

> The thematic vowel is not used as an object or definiteness marker
> anywhere in IE. The testimony of IE itself is that the thematic vowel
> marks the subjunctive. In the nominal system, the thematic vowel is used
> to create adjectives. I would suppose - but cannot prove - that there is a
> common origin involved, in that the subjunctive was originally the verb of
> subordinate clauses, so that stems with the thematic vowel would be used
> to modify stems without it.

[PCR]

I am not sure this matter is quite so easily disposed.

I am wondering if Jens would agree that a stress-accent origin for the thematic
vowel is as likely as considering it a suffix.

I personally favor the idea that the thematic vowel is a result of
stress-accent on the syllable following the root-syllable at one early stage of
IE.

Now, generally in IE, C'VC correlates with durative verbal notions, and CVC'
with momentary verbal ideas.

And, as we all know, there are complex relationships between nominal (object)
definiteness and verbal aspects.

Let us also recall that the "subjunctive" has been characterized as a "thematic
present" (Beekes) so what the "subjunctive" came to mean is not necessarily how
it started out.

I do not pretend to know much about Hungarian so I will leave speculation here,
for the moment.

I can say that the comparison might be more than of passing interest if it can
be shown that the Hungarian indefinite conjugation has uses which suggest
modalities like intention or necessity; and, as a consequence, are
non-declarative --- but I do not know if this is or has been historically true.

Pat

PATRICK C. RYAN | PROTO-LANGUAGE at email.msn.com (501) 227-9947 * 9115 W. 34th
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