you won't believe this
Keith Nelson
k1n at psu.edu
Fri Feb 29 23:57:24 UTC 2008
HI all. I agree that some professional
thoughtful oversight and comment on developments
and marketing sometimes might be very appropriate
rather than leaving everything in the hands of
journalists or hoping that companies will be
responsible. Not sure on best wise steps toward
such a blog, newsletter, etc.
On very early possible association of
printed words--however encoded-- with meanings,
there have long been anecdotal clues that place
such behavior between 8 and 18 months for some
children. It would be interesting to hear of
any well documented observations or even a formal
study. As I recall, one case study with some
pretty early interesting reading documentation is
the mongograph by Ranghild Soderbergh.
Keith Nelson, Dept. Psychology, Penn State University
At 1:56 PM -0500 2/29/08, Nelson, Katherine wrote:
>In general I agree with Kathy and the others who
>view the LENA business with appalled alarm,
>although I have no good ideas for how to respond
>to it.
>
>On the otherhand, after reading about the infant
>reading tapes Peter Gordon referred to, and the
>letters from parents who have used the tapes, I
>have some of the same questions Peter does. In
>what sense is it not reading? Mothers attest
>that their 9 month olds learn both to speak and
>to read simultaneously. What is going on? The
>animal experiments do suggest that some kind of
>conditioning may be in progress, but the
>testimonials from mothers claim that infants are
>using and reading these words freely out of
>context of the game. If some of the claims are
>real we ought to know about it, even at the cost
>of undermining long held assumptions about the
>nature of cognitive and language development.
>(Of course we should also be skeptical of any
>testimonials attached to a commercial product.)
>
>Katherine Nelson
>Distinguished Professor Emerita
>Ph.D. Program in Psychology
>City University of New York Graduate Center
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: info-childes at googlegroups.com on behalf of Gordon, Peter
>Sent: Fri 2/29/2008 10:52 AM
>To: info-childes at googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: you won't believe this
>
>
>I'm sure you can train an animal to do tricks
>like this -- one of my old professors used to
>train pigeons on standard Skinner boxes with 2
>levers, and put "PECK" on the positive side and
>"DON'T PECK" on the negative side! But to do a
>trick like this (touching various body parts in
>response to a written cue) would probably
>involve pretty intensive conditioning with
>gradual shaping and lots of food treats for
>rewards as the animal gradually approaches the
>desired behavior. This kind of conditioning
>would probably be impractical to do with a 9
>month old. So, it would be interesting to see
>what kind of training is done in this program,
>what the rewards are and how long it takes them
>to associate the word with the body part or
>action. I guess it would be interesting to see
>if this generalized to seeing someone else
>touching their body parts or if they could do it
>to a doll. In any case, it might be
>interesting to see how it's done.
>
>
>Peter Gordon, Associate Professor
>525 W 120th St. Box 180
>Biobehavioral Sciences Department
>Teachers College, Columbia University
>New York, NY 10027
>Office Phone: (212) 678-8162
>FAX: (212) 678-8233
>Web Page: www.tc.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328
>
>________________________________
>
>From: info-childes at googlegroups.com on behalf of Nan Ratner
>Sent: Fri 2/29/2008 10:02 AM
>To: info-childes at googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: you won't believe this
>
>
>
>
>It is interesting, although in an elementary school science fair my kids
>participated in, one student taught his dog (a retriever, not even a
>border collie :-)) very similar skills/tricks (and was careful with the
>help of his neuroscientist parent to point out this isn't really
>"reading") , so I am not all that surprised an infant can do it with
>enough experience/training. It is of course also interesting to
>speculate on what parents believe they are accomplishing with this sort
>of stuff.
>
>Nan
>
>
>Nan Bernstein Ratner, Professor and Chairman
>Department of Hearing and Speech Sciences
>0100 Lefrak Hall
>University of Maryland
>College Park, MD 20742
>nratner at hesp.umd.edu
>http://www.bsos.umd.edu/hesp/facultyStaff/ratnern.htm
>301-405-4213
>301-314-2023 (fax)
>
>>>> "Gordon, Peter" <pgordon at exchange.tc.columbia.edu> 2/29/2008 9:49
>AM >>>
>Has anyone looked at this "Infant Reading" website? Apparently this
>was shown on Channel 4 in the UK yesterday. It shows a 9 month old
>being shown words on a card labeling body parts, and then responding by
>pointing to the appropriate part:
>
>http://www.infantlearning.com/
>
>Obviously the baby isn't really reading, but it does seem to be
>responding to the shape of the words and touching the appropriate body
>part (head, teeth, feet etc.) I don't see any other obvious cuing going
>on. If true, it does seem remarkable that the infant can actually
>encode differences between the words and use them as cues for touching
>body parts. I guess then the question is whether this is symbolic, and
>if not, then why not.
>
>Peter
>Peter Gordon, Associate Professor
>525 W 120th St. Box 180
>Biobehavioral Sciences Department
>Teachers College, Columbia University
>New York, NY 10027
>Office Phone: (212) 678-8162
>FAX: (212) 678-8233
>Web Page: www.tc.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328
>
>________________________________
>
>From: info-childes at googlegroups.com on behalf of Krisztina Zajdó
>Sent: Thu 2/28/2008 8:09 PM
>To: info-childes at googlegroups.com
>Subject: RE: you won't believe this
>
>
>Dear Colleagues,
>
>I believe a response is desperately needed here from the research
>community - especially because of ethical issues involved.
>Here is how the LENA website advertises the product:
>
>Parents that have been desperately searching for answers
>and a way to measure and improve their child's language
>development now have LENA.
>
>If you are DESPERATELY searching for answers because you feel something
>is wrong with your child's communicative development, consulting with a
>linguist, speech pathologist or a child development specialist is in
>order, not buying LENA for $399. That approach needs to be the priority
>for the DESPERATE parent, not purchasing a product that in itself will
>not help.
>
>Further, it is stunning that there is a not a word mentioned on the
>LENA website about how the quality (rather than quantity) of
>interactions and speech impacts linguistic/intellectual growth.
>
>One of the parent testimonials cited was a real surprise.
>
>"Getting to see the results of how much I interact with my child
>shows me how many times during the day I am just not cutting it.
>Awareness of these problems will help us improve greatly."
>
>I am all for awareness, but spreading the belief that parents can use
>the LENA system to identify when and how they are just not cutting it
>when it comes to supporting their child's linguistic development is
>clearly disturbing.
>
>Isabelle, please let me know how I can help.
>
>Krisztina
>
>------------------------------------
>Krisztina Zajdó, M.A., M.A., Ph.D.
>Linguist, Speech scientist
>Assistant Professor of Speech-Language Pathology
>
>Director of the Child Speech/Phonology Lab
>
>University of Wyoming
>Division of Communication Disorders
>Dept. 3311
>1000 E. University Avenue
>Laramie, WY 82071
>
>Ph: 307-766-6405
>F: 307-766-6829
>
>zajdo at hotmail.com
>------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
> From: khirshpa at temple.edu
> Subject: Re: you won't believe this
> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 18:50:25 -0500
> To: info-childes at googlegroups.com
>
> Great to hear from you! Are you up for drafting a response? I
>am a bit crazed for the next couple of days and then I leave for Utah
>and San Francisco. Whew. What have you been up to? Kathy
>
> On Feb 28, 2008, at 11:31 AM, isa barriere wrote:
>
>
> Dear Kathy,
> Thanks for sharing this with all of us.
>
> As the Director of Research in a pre-school center that
>serves a very large number (> 2,000)of children from low SES (and many
>different langauge backgrounds) and that incoporates a clinic (EI 0 to 3
>and special ed 3 to 21 - 3,000) in which I regularly contribute to
>parent'sworkshops and staff profesisonal development, I think it is
>essential that we write a response pointing out the many many factors
>that we know/don't know bout that may impact timing of language
>developmental stages. I also suggest that we should try to do so in
>collboration perhaps with representatives of relevant service providers
>(such as professional SLP organization ASHA etc).
>
> Let me know how I or other members of the organizations
>I work for and other colleagues can help.
>
> I look forwrad to hearing from you and to other people's
>reactions.
>
> isabelle Barriere, PhD
> Director of Policy for Research & Education
> Yeled v'Yalda Early Childhood cneter (www.yeled.org
><http://www.yeled.org/> )
> & Co-Director, YVY Research Insititute
>(http://www.yeled.org/res.asp)
> & Research Associate, Research Institute for the Study
>of Language in Urban Society (RISLUS), CUNY Graduate center.
>
>
>
>
> On 2/28/08, Kathy Hirsh-Pasek <khirshpa at temple.edu>
>wrote:
>
> I just read the article in the NYTimes on baby
>techtronics part of which described the Lena system. Yes, Lena is in
>the news again. The adds from their web site tell us that it is
>relevant to any parent concerned about "language delays, autism or
>transitioning an adopted child!" I am copying the description from the
>Times and thought we might all want to check out how our research is
>interpreted in the marketplace. Does this require a response from our
>community? What is our professional responsibility when this keeps
>coming up in the news?
>
>
> Kathy
>
>
>
> Last on our list was the LENA System ($399) a
>language measurement tool developed by Infoture, in Boulder, Colo. The
>system is based on research demonstrating a correlation between the
>amount parents talk to their babies during their first three years and
>their professional success later in life.
>
>
> The LENA System includes a credit card device
>and several children's outfits designed with large pockets in the front.
>Several days a month, you slip the device into the clothing and it
>records conversation between parent and child.
>
>
> At the end of the day, you plug it into your
>personal computer. Special software (available for Windows, but not
>Macs) analyzes the speech - separating adult words and baby gurgling
>from other noises - and reports on how many words you have spoken to
>your baby, how often your baby responds, and where you match up against
>the rest of the American population, to ensure your infant is getting
>that all-important verbal edge on other infants.
>
>
> My girls are a bit too young for the LENA, which
>Infoture recommends for infants from 2 months to 4 years. Instead I
>called Jennifer Jacobs, a mother of two from Boise, Idaho, who used the
>device to ensure her youngest child, Katherine, was not getting left
>behind.
>
>
> http://www.lenababy.com <http://www.lenababy.com/>
><http://www.lenababy.com/> /
>
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--
Keith Nelson
Professor of Psychology
Penn State University
423 Moore Building
University Park, PA 16802
keithnelsonart at psu.edu
814 863 1747
And what is mind
and how is it recognized ?
It is clearly drawn
in Sumi ink, the
sound of breezes drifting through pine.
--Ikkyu Sojun
Japanese Zen Master 1394-1481
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