pragmatic bootstrapping

Wed Mar 23 01:53:20 UTC 2011

Hi---
    yes the name of the game is to specify the mechanism.  I think there
will be what I call "strict interfaces"
that link many of these things.  For instance: imperatives involve a mapping
between speaker and hearer,
situation, syntax of subject deletion, intonation and the mapping seems
automatic.   Social and distributional
factors are a part of the situation.  I am not sure about Bayseian
information.  Frequency is not a meaningful
notion if it is not frequency of something, as soon as it is a something, a
phonetic or phonologial object, it already
has a representation--so you cannot "get" the representation through
frequency, although it might seem that way
because in fact you get many subparts of the representation one by one.
LIke the phonology of the beginning middle
and end of a word might have separate learning events before you ever say
the word.
     The challenge is to specify the mapping---pragmatics, phonetics,
intonation, phonology, syntax, semantics---
bootstrapping is a very misleading term because it makes things seem one way
when they never are.
YOur eyes don't choose the light that they take in, but they choose to form
extremely complex objects.  How to
connect the object with a sound involves many pre-existing mental
assumptions.  Suppose you associate a word
with an object in motion.  Why do that?  It is not inevitable, it is a
mental bias.

Tom

On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 3:52 PM, Mohinish <mohinish.s at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> if I may jump in - I think (specially in early formulations) it was left
> somewhat unspecified what the various, *sufficient* sources of information
> that lead to acquisition are; the strong claim was that they lead to the
> induction of *linguistic* structures. So, if the baby sees that a
> hypothesized, projected linguistic structure leads to an inference that is
> wrong for pragmatic reasons, this should lead to the baby projecting a new
> hypothesis about the linguistic structure. Tom's argument is that this is an
> important source for the child to understand what kind of structures might
> contain transformations.
>
> More generally, one can replace 'pragmatic reason' with any of the other
> cognitive factors, like 'distributional reason' or 'social reason' or
> 'Bayesian reason' - in every case, however, what these must do is inform the
> learner about the hypotheses regarding possible linguistic structures. -
> i.e., confirm or disconfirm the hypotheses about the underlying linguistic
> structure. I think in this sense, it is simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic
> in what Tom writes. Nothing stops it being simultaneously  syntactic and
> distributional and pragmatic, or any other combination. Maybe *all* of
> them are necessary...
>
> Mo
>
> On Mar 22, 2011, at 3:22 PM, parisa Daftarifard wrote:
>
> Dear Tom, you wrote
> "That means a simultaneous syntactic and pragmatic information.  "
> I think pragmatic information should be followed by syntactic. babies learn
> pragmatics well sooner than syntax when they respond their parents smile
> with smile. What Chomsky states, I believe, is that syntactic bootstrapping
> is what actually happened through triggering the UG system, not pragmatic
> one. I mean first language learning / acquisition is triggered then other
> things happen. I think Anat , please correct me if I am wrong, believes that
> pragmatic bootstrapping is the starting point for the kids?
>
> Autistic children have problem in processing pragmatics and have language
> delay. through ABA program what they learn, besides many things, even in
> high functioning autism, is how to respond different discourses and learn to
> respond pragmatically. Some of them, when learn to be pragmatic, turn into
> creative language user.
>
> Best,
> Parisa
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 4:06 PM, Tom Roeper <roeper at linguist.umass.edu>wrote:
>
>> Anat---
>>     in the paper I wrote in 1981 for the Wanner Gleitman volume, I argued
>> that children needed pragmatic
>> mapping onto syntax to justify transformations.  That means a simultaneous
>> syntactic and pragmatic
>> information.  It is in my book as well---and actually embedded in
>> Chomsky's remark in 1076 Reflections
>> on Language, that acqusition must be consistent with "trigtering
>> experience" I said to him that must include
>> pragmatics and he agreed.
>>    It is obvious that it is hard to understand:
>>        the cat was chased by the dog.
>> but the chld has a big semantic.pragmatic  advantage when they hear:
>>
>> the milk was drunk by the boy
>>
>> because they know that milk cannot drink boy.  If there is syntax is ready
>> to project a transformation,
>> then they use that information and visual support to say "milk has to get
>> into the object position somehow,
>> do I have a mental operation to do it".
>>       Once acquired, it will be autonomous and apply without pragmatics,
>> so if I tell a 3yr old:
>>
>>       the cheese ate the mouse
>>
>> they laugh, because they know, anti-pragmatically, that it is true.  An
>> anti-pragmatic ability is the
>> sign of true acquisition.
>>
>> best, Tom  Roeper
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 21, 2011 at 6:17 PM, parisa Daftarifard <
>> pdaftaryfard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Anat,
>>>
>>> Very interesting topic.....I am not sure but lack of language development
>>> or language development delay can occur because of problems in pragmatic
>>> bootstrapping in some children. Kids with low possibility of being involved
>>> in interaction-- when mothers or fathers are busy or when kids live in a
>>> poor-interaction environment-- showed to have language delay. This is
>>> especially interesting when we consider that TVs are always on and they can
>>> get enough input in a unilateral way.
>>>
>>> Best.
>>> Parisa Daftarifard
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:37 AM, Anat Ninio <
>>> msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear List,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to have sent this to the whole list by mistake, but actually I'd
>>>> love to hear from anybody who knows of studies that can be said to test the
>>>> hypothesis that children learn syntax by "pragmatic bootstrapping".
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> Anat Ninio
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17-03-11 06:01, Anat Ninio wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Nameera,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot!  Absolutely coincidentally this very minute I'm reading
>>>> your 2008 (or is it 2009?) encyclopedia entry
>>>>
>>>> Akhtar, N., & Herold, K. (2008). Pragmatic development. In M. M. Haith &
>>>> J. B. Benson (Eds.), *Encyclopedia of infant and early childhood
>>>> development,* Vol. *2* (pp. 572-581). San Diego, CA: Academic Press.
>>>> which I want to cite for a research proposal for an European grant.
>>>> First, is it 2008 or 2009? Second, you say
>>>>
>>>> "We know of no empirical research, however, that has directly addressed
>>>> the question of whether children learn syntactic constructions in the same
>>>> way as they learn words; that is,  through "pragmatic bootstrapping" or
>>>> attention to speakers' intentions." (p.319)
>>>> Would you still say so? Or is there some new study that you know of tha
>>>> t I should mention? Any newer publication of yours on this point?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot and see you in SRCD for sure,
>>>>
>>>> Anat
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17-03-11 05:14, nameera akhtar wrote:
>>>>
>>>> congratulations, anat!
>>>>
>>>> hope to see you at srcd,
>>>>
>>>> nameera
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Anat Ninio <
>>>> msninio at pluto.mscc.huji.ac.il> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Friends and Colleagues,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm very happy to be able to announce the publication of my new book by
>>>>> Oxford University Press.  It is entitled   "Syntactic development, its
>>>>> input and output" and a description of it, as well as a link to the
>>>>> Introduction, can be found on the publisher's on-line catalogue at
>>>>> http://ukcatalogue.oup.com/product/9780199565962.do
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope you'll like it!
>>>>>
>>>>> Anat Ninio
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Parisa Daftarifard
>>> Phd Student of TEFL
>>> Islamic Azad University of Science and Research
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tom Roeper
>> Dept of Lingiustics
>> UMass South College
>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
>> 413 256 0390
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Parisa Daftarifard
> Phd Student of TEFL
> Islamic Azad University of Science and Research
>
>
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-- 
Tom Roeper
Dept of Lingiustics
UMass South College
Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA
413 256 0390

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