From hkasuya at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 17:03:36 2014 From: hkasuya at gmail.com (hiroko kasuya) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:03:36 -0700 Subject: JSLS2014 Call for Participation Message-ID: Call for Participation in the 16th Annual International Conference of The Japanese Society for Language Sciences (JSLS2014) The annual conference of the Japanese Society for Language Sciences will be held from June 28th (Sat) – June 29th (Sun), 2014 at Bunkyo University, Koshigaya Campus, close to Tokyo. The conference program has been posted on JSLS 2014 Conference website. Pre-registration has already started. The deadline is June 7 (Saturday). For more information, please visit the conference website: http://www.jslsweb.sakura.ne.jp/jsls2014/wiki.cgi?page=JSLS2014English (Please note that the call for papers has closed.) Inquiries may be sent to the conference committee: jsls-conf at googlegroups.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/416a3b73-a201-4fd4-91a8-09531ab813e7%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mblume at pucp.pe Mon Jun 2 18:07:27 2014 From: mblume at pucp.pe (mblume) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 11:07:27 -0700 Subject: Question about data for Colombian Spanish and Lara, G=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B3mez=2C_G=C3=A1lvez=2C_?=Mesa and Serrat 2011. Message-ID: Dear Collegues: I have been looking at different versions of the MacArthur-Bates Communicative Development Inventories for Spanish. I read in the following article María Fernanda Lara Díaz, Ángela María Gómez Fonseca, Diana Marcela Gálvez Bohórquez, Carol Mesa Guechá, and Elisabet Serrat Sellabona. (2011) Normativización del inventario del desarrollo comunicativo MacArthur-Bates al español, Colombia. *Revista Latinoamericana de Psicología*, vol. 43, num. 2, pp. 241-254. that the authors used for the design of the questionnaire a dictionary of lexical frequency of children from Bogotá by analyzing samples of 60 children from 8 to 36 months using CLAN and CHILDES (I am paraphrasing and translating here, but the text appears under "Procedimiento" (Procedure) at the bottom of the left-hand column on p. 245 and includes most of that same paragraph which ends on the upper-most right-hand colum of the same page) Howevwer, I browsed both the Database Manuals for Romance Languages and the browsable databases (both Spanish and Spanish-MOR) and I found transcripts for Mexican, Peninsular, and Venezuelan Spanish but no database fr Colombian Spanish. Could you please let me know if such database exists or existed at some point in CHILDES? Hopefully the authors will read this and let me know if I am misunderstanding something. Thanks María -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1b944249-256e-4341-8d0a-a2467e0ead37%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annycastilla at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 21:18:52 2014 From: annycastilla at gmail.com (Anny Castilla-Earls) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 16:18:52 -0500 Subject: Question about data for Colombian Spanish and Lara, G=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B3mez=2C_G=C3=A1lvez=2C_?=Mesa and Serrat 2011. In-Reply-To: <1b944249-256e-4341-8d0a-a2467e0ead37@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Dear Maria, I can get you in touch with Maria Fernanda. She collected the data for the dictionary of lexical frequency, and analyzed the data using CLAN, I believe. Email me at castilla at fredonia.edu and I can give you more info. Anny > On Jun 2, 2014, at 1:07 PM, mblume wrote: > > Dear Collegues: > > I have been looking at different versions of the MacArthur-Bates Communicative Development Inventories for Spanish. > > I read in the following article > > María Fernanda Lara Díaz, Ángela María Gómez Fonseca, Diana Marcela Gálvez Bohórquez, Carol Mesa Guechá, and Elisabet Serrat Sellabona. (2011) Normativización del inventario del desarrollo comunicativo MacArthur-Bates al español, Colombia. Revista Latinoamericana de Psicología, vol. 43, num. 2, pp. 241-254. > > that the authors used for the design of the questionnaire a dictionary of lexical frequency of children from Bogotá by analyzing samples of 60 children from 8 to 36 months using CLAN and CHILDES (I am paraphrasing and translating here, but the text appears under "Procedimiento" (Procedure) at the bottom of the left-hand column on p. 245 and includes most of that same paragraph which ends on the upper-most right-hand colum of the same page) > > Howevwer, I browsed both the Database Manuals for Romance Languages and the browsable databases (both Spanish and Spanish-MOR) and I found transcripts for Mexican, Peninsular, and Venezuelan Spanish but no database fr Colombian Spanish. > > Could you please let me know if such database exists or existed at some point in CHILDES? Hopefully the authors will read this and let me know if I am misunderstanding something. > > Thanks > > María > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1b944249-256e-4341-8d0a-a2467e0ead37%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2B7FD40C-7245-4AE0-9C71-A68D7B388011%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkasuya at gmail.com Tue Jun 3 08:26:31 2014 From: hkasuya at gmail.com (Hiroko Kasuya) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 17:26:31 +0900 Subject: JSLS 2014 Call for Participation Message-ID: Call for Participation in the 16th Annual International Conference of The Japanese Society for Language Sciences (JSLS2014) The annual conference of the Japanese Society for Language Sciences will be held from June 28th (Sat) – June 29th (Sun), 2014 at Bunkyo University, Koshigaya Campus, close to Tokyo. The conference program has been posted on JSLS 2014 Conference website. Pre-registration has already started. The deadline is June 7 (Saturday). For more information, please visit the conference website: http://www.jslsweb.sakura.ne.jp/jsls2014/wiki.cgi?page=JSLS2014English (Please note that the call for papers has closed.) Inquiries may be sent to the conference committee: jsls-conf at googlegroups.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJcy38aEQEfceH5zpqTLUEqG-m5_%2Bvm%3D2795%2BXNQZx3hfV4jmg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From dalep at unm.edu Wed Jun 4 16:44:35 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 16:44:35 +0000 Subject: phonological awareness measures Message-ID: I'm wondering if there are any phonological awareness tests that have been adapted to languages other than the original one, with success in terms of validity. A group of researchers at the University of Southern Denmark has developed a comprehensive test of Danish for children between 3 and 7, and is now norming and validating the measure. Validating the phonological awareness portion of the measure is particularly challenging, as we are not aware of a normed and validated measure of phonological awareness in Danish to use as the criterion variable. One possibility would be to adapt an existing measure to Danish for this purpose, but it would be reassuring to know that the test has been previously adapted for other languages. Alternatively, we would be interested in suggestions of other procedures for validating such a test in the absence of an established criterion variable. With thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Philip S. Dale, Professor Speech & Hearing Sciences University of New Mexico -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/6a5624286732400f9665bbad4976b658%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mehozcan20 at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 09:09:00 2014 From: mehozcan20 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Mehmet_=C3=96ZCAN?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 02:09:00 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: <42bbb759-e650-49c0-a362-2123ba4bdf72@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Dear Hüseyin, (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) · (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first > question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the > point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language > development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) > experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature > in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by > Gibbs and Colston in > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions > are as follows: > > - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child > language? > - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or > more generally figurative language? > - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms > have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or > advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another > perspective.) > - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child > directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > Huseyin > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roeper at linguist.umass.edu Thu Jun 5 13:44:40 2014 From: roeper at linguist.umass.edu (Tom Roeper) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 09:44:40 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: <5187_1401959344_539033B0_5187_311_1_cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi folks-- just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: "I know a shortcut" "well, I know a shorter cut" and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it relates to complex sentences. Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent to children's comprehension of them. A child with a stomache who said" "there's a fireengine in my stomach" or a child with a stuffed nose who said: "there's paint in my nose". Deviations from compositionality can still be logically motivated. Tom Roeper On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN wrote: > Dear Hüseyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that > other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > · (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) > The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the > location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you > mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; > watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the > first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean > Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their > list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of > prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities > overlap to the sufficient extent. > > · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you > assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of > compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic > unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the > whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it > comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality > Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of > pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of > the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather > than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, *some > birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have > some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. > > · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too > much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal > observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions > or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding > study. Good luck in all ways. > > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >> >> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the >> point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language >> development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) >> experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature >> in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by >> Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >> >> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >> language? >> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or >> more generally figurative language? >> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms >> have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or >> advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >> perspective.) >> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >> >> Thanks, >> Huseyin >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Thu Jun 5 14:19:28 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:19:28 +0000 Subject: list of common words Message-ID: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htagerf at bu.edu Thu Jun 5 14:25:23 2014 From: htagerf at bu.edu (Tager-Flusberg, Helen B) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:25:23 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikachoff at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 14:29:38 2014 From: erikachoff at gmail.com (Erika Hoff) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 10:29:38 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nratner at umd.edu Thu Jun 5 14:45:31 2014 From: nratner at umd.edu (Nan Bernstein Ratner) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:45:31 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: lexrare.txt URL: From dalep at unm.edu Thu Jun 5 15:06:13 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:06:13 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96@OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU> Message-ID: Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nratner at umd.edu Thu Jun 5 15:08:17 2014 From: nratner at umd.edu (Nan Bernstein Ratner) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:08:17 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:21:52 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:21:52 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B@OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU> Message-ID: You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed > speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then > additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal > input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Thu Jun 5 15:23:40 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:23:40 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Could you spell those out? From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirgård Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:28:48 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:28:48 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > Could you spell those out? > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirgård > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? > > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : > > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed > speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then > additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal > input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nratner at umd.edu Thu Jun 5 15:29:40 2014 From: nratner at umd.edu (Nan Bernstein Ratner) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:29:40 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I am attaching Beals and Tabors, which explains the file and how it was constructed; since it was to look at rare words as defined by speech children are more likely to hear, the list was derived by using a list that Chall and Dale composed, based on 4th grade vocabulary. Like Philip, I have no idea what those other lists or resources are, but if you want to look at CDS, this list has a reasonable pedigree. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:24 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Could you spell those out? From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirgård Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4AE142%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Beals & Tabors.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 398399 bytes Desc: Beals & Tabors.pdf URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:30:18 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:30:18 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: However, I don't really know what variety of English you're after, nor genre or adult-adult or adult-child. /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:28 GMT+02:00 Hedvig Skirgård : > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > > /Hedvig > > > 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > > Could you spell those out? >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: >> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirgård >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM >> >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: list of common words >> >> >> >> You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? >> >> >> /Hedvig >> >> >> >> 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : >> >> We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed >> speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then >> additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal >> input that consisted of relatively rare words. >> >> >> >> Nan >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: >> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM >> >> >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* RE: list of common words >> >> >> >> Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to >> determine frequencies? >> >> Philip >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ >> mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On >> Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* RE: list of common words >> >> >> >> I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by >> Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few >> studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are >> others; this is the one we have used. >> >> >> >> Best to all, >> >> Nan >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ >> mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On >> Behalf Of *Erika Hoff >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: list of common words >> >> >> >> Me too. >> >> >> >> Erika >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B >> wrote: >> >> Philip, >> >> I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? >> >> >> >> thanks! >> >> Helen >> >> _________________________________ >> >> Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. >> >> Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University >> >> Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM >> >> >> >> Address >> >> Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences >> >> Center for Autism Research Excellence >> >> 100 Cummington Mall >> >> Boston MA 02215 >> >> T: 617-358-5919 >> >> htagerf at bu.edu >> >> www.bu.edu/autism >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: >> >> >> >> I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most >> common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use >> of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there >> software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. >> rare wrods? Many thanks. >> >> Philip Dale >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Erika Hoff, Professor >> >> Department of Psychology >> >> Florida Atlantic University >> >> 3200 College Ave. >> >> Davie, FL 33314 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU >> >> . >> >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1bnw-3eAg3SFzEnk9NXCktb1087duC1CavJZZhNDKwXA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shelley.brundage at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:30:31 2014 From: shelley.brundage at gmail.com (Shelley Brundage) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 11:30:31 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96@OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU> Message-ID: ho Folks I was remembering something by Thorndike and Lorge. Here is some info from Wikipedia regarding 'traditional lists of word frequency": Traditional lists[edit ]The Teachers Word Book of 30,000 words (Thorndike and Lorge, 1944) The TWB contains 30,000 lemmas or ~13,000 word families (Goulden, Nation and Read, 1990). A corpus of 18,000,000 written words was hand analysed. The size of its inputted corpus increased its usefulness, but its age and language change reduced its applicability (Nation 1997 ). The General Service List (West, 1953) The GSL contains 2,000 headwords divided into two sets of 1,000 words. A corpus of 5,000,000 written words was analysed in the 1940s. Rate of occurrence (%) for different meanings and parts of speech of the headword are provided, while it was also a careful application of the various criteria other than frequency and range. Thus, despite its age, some errors, and its solely written base, it is still an excellent database (word frequency, frequency of meanings, reduction of noise) (Nation 1997 ). The American Heritage Word Frequency Book (Carroll, Davies and Richman, 1971) A corpus of 5,000,000 running words, from written texts used in United States schools (various grades, various subject areas). Its value is in its focus on school teaching materials, and its tagging of words, namely the frequency of each word in each of the school grade levels and in each of the subject areas (Nation 1997 ). The Brown (Francis and Kucera, 1982) LOB and related corpora These now contain 1,000,000 words from a written corpora representing different dialects of English. These sources are used to produce frequency lists (Nation 1997 ). On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Nan Bernstein Ratner wrote: > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Shelley B. Brundage, Ph.D., CCC-S Associate Professor and Graduate Program Director ASHA Fellow Board Recognized Specialist and Mentor-Fluency Disorders Speech and Hearing Science department George Washington University 2115 G St NW Suite 201 Washington, D.C. 20052 (202) 994-5008 office (202 994-2205 lab (202) 994-2589 fax -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAH2afvL%2B5CYhxzLooxiVS4ut9uuBg9EeS2Lh%3DVoSjEJ6C%2BK41A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:33:15 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:33:15 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: COCA and BNC are both based on the Brown corpus structure, and much larger. /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:30 GMT+02:00 Shelley Brundage : > ho Folks > I was remembering something by Thorndike and Lorge. Here is some info > from Wikipedia regarding 'traditional lists of word frequency": > > Traditional lists[edit > > ] The Teachers Word Book of 30,000 words (Thorndike and Lorge, 1944) > > The TWB contains 30,000 lemmas or ~13,000 word families (Goulden, Nation > and Read, 1990). A corpus of 18,000,000 written words was hand analysed. > The size of its inputted corpus increased its usefulness, but its age and > language change reduced its applicability (Nation 1997 > ). > The General Service List > (West, 1953) > > The GSL contains 2,000 headwords divided into two sets of 1,000 words. A > corpus of 5,000,000 written words was analysed in the 1940s. Rate of > occurrence (%) for different meanings and parts of speech of the headword > are provided, while it was also a careful application of the various > criteria other than frequency and range. Thus, despite its age, some > errors, and its solely written base, it is still an excellent database > (word frequency, frequency of meanings, reduction of noise) (Nation 1997 > ). > The American Heritage Word Frequency Book (Carroll, Davies and Richman, > 1971) > > A corpus of 5,000,000 running words, from written texts used in United > States schools (various grades, various subject areas). Its value is in its > focus on school teaching materials, and its tagging of words, namely the > frequency of each word in each of the school grade levels and in each of > the subject areas (Nation 1997 > ). > The Brown (Francis and Kucera, 1982) LOB and related corpora > > These now contain 1,000,000 words from a written corpora representing > different dialects of English. These sources are used to produce frequency > lists (Nation 1997 > ). > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Nan Bernstein Ratner > wrote: > >> I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by >> Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few >> studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are >> others; this is the one we have used. >> >> >> >> Best to all, >> >> Nan >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: >> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Erika Hoff >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: list of common words >> >> >> >> Me too. >> >> >> >> Erika >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B >> wrote: >> >> Philip, >> >> I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? >> >> >> >> thanks! >> >> Helen >> >> _________________________________ >> >> Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. >> >> Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University >> >> Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM >> >> >> >> Address >> >> Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences >> >> Center for Autism Research Excellence >> >> 100 Cummington Mall >> >> Boston MA 02215 >> >> T: 617-358-5919 >> >> htagerf at bu.edu >> >> www.bu.edu/autism >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: >> >> >> >> I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most >> common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use >> of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there >> software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. >> rare wrods? Many thanks. >> >> Philip Dale >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Erika Hoff, Professor >> >> Department of Psychology >> >> Florida Atlantic University >> >> 3200 College Ave. >> >> Davie, FL 33314 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU >> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Shelley B. Brundage, Ph.D., CCC-S > Associate Professor and Graduate Program Director > ASHA Fellow > Board Recognized Specialist and Mentor-Fluency Disorders > Speech and Hearing Science department > George Washington University > 2115 G St NW Suite 201 > Washington, D.C. 20052 > (202) 994-5008 office > (202 994-2205 lab > (202) 994-2589 fax > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAH2afvL%2B5CYhxzLooxiVS4ut9uuBg9EeS2Lh%3DVoSjEJ6C%2BK41A%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1bWEAQ9nZXiAKaEZRcGga7b-hTQNdW7m66gq2sXE190A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Thu Jun 5 15:42:35 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:42:35 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks so much. I should have been clearer at the outset. In this case, I’m interested in adult-adult speech (for adult-child speech, as in Goodman, Dale & Li, 2008, we used a FREQ analysis of CHILDES corpora). COCA looks the best, as it actually has word frequencies. On first examination, BNC is just the corpora, and you’d have to do the analyses yourself. But I might be wrong here. Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirgård Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:29 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale >: Could you spell those out? From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirgård Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k1n at psu.edu Thu Jun 5 15:44:02 2014 From: k1n at psu.edu (Keith Nelson) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 11:44:02 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all. I m attaching a JCL paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > "I know a shortcut" > "well, I know a shorter cut" > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > a stomache who said" > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN wrote: > >> Dear Hüseyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that >> other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> · (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) >> The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the >> location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you >> mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; >> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be >> the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean >> Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their >> list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of >> prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities >> overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you >> assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of >> the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather >> than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, *some >> birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have >> some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >> >> · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too >> much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding >> study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>> >>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >>> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >>> >>> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >>> language? >>> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or >>> more generally figurative language? >>> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms >>> have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or >>> advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>> perspective.) >>> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Huseyin >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT630Tf5z-aQMSv3N__y13_GzQm3Od0s_DCsPbEr6zT6xmhw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Idiom_JSLHR_2014.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 198565 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:48:59 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:48:59 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: You should use COCA or BNC depending on whether you're looking at a American or British variety There are different ways of counting frequency, and you might not be interested in all the material in COCA/BNC, so be aware of the proportions of genres, speakers etc. If you want to learn more about frequencies in the BNC, go here: http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/using/index.xml?ID=other#freq /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:42 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > Thanks so much. I should have been clearer at the outset. In this case, > I’m interested in adult-adult speech (for adult-child speech, as in > Goodman, Dale & Li, 2008, we used a FREQ analysis of CHILDES corpora). > > COCA looks the best, as it actually has word frequencies. On first > examination, BNC is just the corpora, and you’d have to do the analyses > yourself. But I might be wrong here. > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirgård > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:29 AM > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > > Could you spell those out? > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirgård > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? > > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : > > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed > speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then > additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal > input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1kNf_ZYcFRu5%2BVUoBkiaHtRgasUfyo7x0hfsdeMdmfDg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diane.lillomartin at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 16:04:36 2014 From: diane.lillomartin at gmail.com (Diane Lillo-Martin) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 12:04:36 -0400 Subject: Repetitions in child production Message-ID: Dear all, I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for various types of analyses, especially MLU. In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or with some intervening talk. I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the command is set to exclude them. If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do you treat such repetitions? Many thanks in advance, Diane ---------- Diane Lillo-Martin University of Connecticut -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From natalia.rakhlin at yale.edu Thu Jun 5 16:16:29 2014 From: natalia.rakhlin at yale.edu (Rakhlin, Natalia) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:16:29 +0000 Subject: Repetitions in child production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Diane, Repetitions and other types of "mazes" (false starts, interjections, self-corrections) are typically not included as countable utterance for MLU calculation, although it may be included in some types of analyses depending on your goal. There are some pretty good papers that describe principled ways of chunking spoken language into analyzable units. Here is one (but there may be better ones - if you would like, I can take a look and send you more references): Foster, P., Tonkyn, A., & Wigglesworth (2000). Measuring Spoken Language: a Unit for All Reasons, Applied Linguistics, 21/3, 354-375. Best, Natasha Natalia Rakhlin, Ph.D. Child Study Center Yale University 230 South Frontage Rd New Haven CT 06519-1124 On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin wrote: Dear all, I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for various types of analyses, especially MLU. In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or with some intervening talk. I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the command is set to exclude them. If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do you treat such repetitions? Many thanks in advance, Diane ---------- Diane Lillo-Martin University of Connecticut -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/D66D920F-6766-4EA0-AFFF-E6FEFD4EA771%40yale.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Roberta at udel.edu Thu Jun 5 17:56:55 2014 From: Roberta at udel.edu (Roberta Golinkoff) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 13:56:55 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Masterson, J., Druks, J., & Gallienne, D. (2008). Object and action picture naming in 3- to 5-year-old children. *Journal of Child Language, 35*, 373-402. I have found the above useful for their word lists. Best, Roberta Golinkoff On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, Ph. D. Unidel H. Rodney Sharp Professor School of Education and Departments of Psychology and Linguistics and Cognitive Science University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716 Office: 302-831-1634; Fax: 302-831-4110 Web page: http://udel.edu/~roberta/ PI on Institute of Education Sciences Postdoctoral Training Grant The late Mary Dunn said, "Life is the time we have to learn." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAFWLa7%2BHH%3DBzKA5SMRmDH%3DUO_%2BmB1_pDWaR610GH9uMoWeHx5Q%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walesgin at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 18:24:29 2014 From: walesgin at gmail.com (walesgin) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:24:29 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: I asked my colleague Hans Stadthagen-Gonzalez about this, and he replied with the following, which may be of some help: I don’t know of any list of 3000 words per se, but there are several word frequency corpora that could easily be used for this. Out of the top of my head, CELEX or the British National Corpus (BNC) are widely used and each has a very large sample but are both for British English. A good alternative for American English is Brysbaert’s SubtlexUS, which is based on movie subtitles and has been shown to explain a large portion of variance in word recognition (in other words, it’s a good sample). You can find more info here:expsy.ugent.be/subtlexus/ If you need frequency counts for particular age groups, there’s the Educator’s Word Frequency Guide, which is stratified by school grade and based on reading materials from Kindergarten through 12+ grade. Going back to the question, I would not frame it in terms of 3K words and whatever is not on the list is considered “rare”, but in terms of a cutoff frequency below which words are considered infrequent. The cutoff would be somewhat arbitrary and dependent on the purpose of the study (but there is literature out there discussing this issue). Best, V. C. Mueller Gathercole Professor of Linguistics Coordinator PhD Program Florida International University http://vcmuellergathercole.weebly.com/index.html *** SPECIAL OFFER to launch new books *Issues in the Assessment of Bilinguals* and *Solutions for the Assessment of Bilinguals*, edited by V C Mueller Gathercole and published by Multilingual Matters: 30% off: http://www.channelviewpublications.com/specialoffers.asp? [TOC at: http://vcmuellergathercole.weebly.com/selected-publications-books.html] Latest news from FIU's Linguistics Program: http://linguisticshotnews.weebly.com Information on FIU's recent Barbara Gordon Lecture and Linguistics Festival, Mar. 6 & 7: http://linguisticshotnews.weebly.com On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > Thanks so much. I should have been clearer at the outset. In this case, > I’m interested in adult-adult speech (for adult-child speech, as in > Goodman, Dale & Li, 2008, we used a FREQ analysis of CHILDES corpora). > > COCA looks the best, as it actually has word frequencies. On first > examination, BNC is just the corpora, and you’d have to do the analyses > yourself. But I might be wrong here. > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirgård > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:29 AM > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > > Could you spell those out? > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirgård > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? > > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : > > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed > speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then > additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal > input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAOr3bM6bdBXDiuG4QbAKURiZjW-oJVH2cKUM5hVe7WBNZOefjg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macw at cmu.edu Fri Jun 6 07:32:32 2014 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:32:32 +0200 Subject: Repetitions in child production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Diane, As noted by Natasha Rakhlin, repetitions are typically excluded from MLU. This is done automatically and by default in the CLAN MLU program, using the marking of repetitions with the [/] and [//] symbols. There is also a program called REPEAT that can add these marks if they are not present, but it is safer to do this carefully when transcribing. -- Brian MacWhinney On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin wrote: > Dear all, > I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for various types of analyses, especially MLU. > > In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or with some intervening talk. > > I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the command is set to exclude them. > > If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do you treat such repetitions? > > Many thanks in advance, > Diane > > ---------- > Diane Lillo-Martin > University of Connecticut > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/FB66A613-71C6-4351-B668-D5E06DAE9DF0%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ngoni.chipere at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 08:54:16 2014 From: ngoni.chipere at gmail.com (Ngoni Chipere) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 04:54:16 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: You might want to have a look at Paul Meara's p_lex program, dowloadable here: http://www.lognostics.co.uk/tools/index.htm and explained here: http://www.ameprc.mq.edu.au/docs/prospect_journal/volume_16_no_3/Prospect_16,3_article_1.pdf regards Ngoni On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CADSiM9BbmVxpUKaqNS8VTpWERzWdxp-RGcVY%2BuU978_AL1pFXw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.dossantos at univ-tours.fr Fri Jun 6 12:17:33 2014 From: christophe.dossantos at univ-tours.fr (Christophe dos Santos) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 14:17:33 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you look for adult-adult oral language frequencies of American English, you may want to have a look to SUBTL database. http://subtlexus.lexique.org/ Best, Christophe dos Santos Université François-Rabelais, Tours 2014-06-06 10:54 GMT+02:00 Ngoni Chipere : > You might want to have a look at Paul Meara's p_lex program, dowloadable > here: > > http://www.lognostics.co.uk/tools/index.htm > > and explained here: > > > http://www.ameprc.mq.edu.au/docs/prospect_journal/volume_16_no_3/Prospect_16,3_article_1.pdf > > regards > > Ngoni > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > >> I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most >> common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use >> of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there >> software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. >> rare wrods? Many thanks. >> >> Philip Dale >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CADSiM9BbmVxpUKaqNS8VTpWERzWdxp-RGcVY%2BuU978_AL1pFXw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAGJJ4k%2B%3DVN6mNfA5JkEsPv8zk7146%3DDJAHVT30pLn4PARN1ioA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k1n at psu.edu Fri Jun 6 13:34:51 2014 From: k1n at psu.edu (Keith Nelson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:34:51 -0400 Subject: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language Message-ID: HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464.* ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Keith Nelson Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > "I know a shortcut" > "well, I know a shorter cut" > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > a stomache who said" > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN wrote: > >> Dear Hüseyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that >> other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> · (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) >> The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the >> location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you >> mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; >> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be >> the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean >> Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their >> list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of >> prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities >> overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you >> assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of >> the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather >> than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, *some >> birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have >> some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >> >> · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too >> much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding >> study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>> >>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >>> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >>> >>> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >>> language? >>> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or >>> more generally figurative language? >>> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms >>> have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or >>> advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>> perspective.) >>> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Huseyin >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Idiom_JSLHR_2014.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 198565 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brunilda at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 13:39:05 2014 From: brunilda at gmail.com (Bruno Estigarribia) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:39:05 -0400 Subject: Repetitions in child production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, the issue is whether you want to err on the side of overestimating MLU (by excluding repetitions) or underestimating it (by including them). Part of the problem is that not all repetitions have the same status, or the same origin. Treating immediate repetitions differently from non-immediate repetitions is somewhat arbitrary. Non-immediate and immediate repetitions can both be a sign of perseveration, for example. Then, how do you want to treat perseverative utterances? If perseveration is a hallmark of the child's language, then what does it mean to calculate MLU excluding repetitions? Are we calculating an upper bound on the MLU instead of the actual average? Is this MLU reflective of child's competence or just artificial? You either code your transcript in a way that differentiates repetitions that should not be counted (e.g. clarification repeats) from those that should be (e.g. perhaps perseveration) or... I don't know :-) Maybe one can calculate several MLUs with random exclusions of sentences and you can get a confidence interval for it. But this would be a poor substitute for making individual decisions about repeated utterances. Note finally that repetitions are treated completely differently in the calculation of type-token ratios. In that measure, keeping repeats is crucial. Perseverative or repetitous language brings TTRs down... are we equally concerned? On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:32 AM, Brian MacWhinney wrote: > Dear Diane, > As noted by Natasha Rakhlin, repetitions are typically excluded from > MLU. This is done automatically and by default in the CLAN MLU program, > using the marking of repetitions with the [/] and [//] > symbols. There is also a program called REPEAT that can add these marks if > they are not present, but it is safer to do this carefully when > transcribing. > > — Brian MacWhinney > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin < > diane.lillomartin at gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for > various types of analyses, especially MLU. > > In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, > such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the > ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or > with some intervening talk. > > I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to > the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in > the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the > command is set to exclude them. > > If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do > you treat such repetitions? > > Many thanks in advance, > Diane > > ---------- > Diane Lillo-Martin > University of Connecticut > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/FB66A613-71C6-4351-B668-D5E06DAE9DF0%40cmu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAMWGojnux3b-FD15dNYCjcm%3DpBPvCSbb-FTF4m6GONOvqmBbaQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brunilda at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 13:54:58 2014 From: brunilda at gmail.com (Bruno Estigarribia) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:54:58 -0400 Subject: Repetitions in child production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One correction. Excluding repetitions could underestimate MLU if repetitions are long. This is likely in the case of echolalia, somewhat less likely in the general case, presumably, since the longer a fragment, the less likely it is to be repeated exactly. On Jun 6, 2014 9:39 AM, "Bruno Estigarribia" wrote: > Well, the issue is whether you want to err on the side of overestimating > MLU (by excluding repetitions) or underestimating it (by including them). > Part of the problem is that not all repetitions have the same status, or > the same origin. Treating immediate repetitions differently from > non-immediate repetitions is somewhat arbitrary. Non-immediate and > immediate repetitions can both be a sign of perseveration, for example. > Then, how do you want to treat perseverative utterances? If perseveration > is a hallmark of the child's language, then what does it mean to calculate > MLU excluding repetitions? Are we calculating an upper bound on the MLU > instead of the actual average? Is this MLU reflective of child's competence > or just artificial? > You either code your transcript in a way that differentiates repetitions > that should not be counted (e.g. clarification repeats) from those that > should be (e.g. perhaps perseveration) or... I don't know :-) Maybe one can > calculate several MLUs with random exclusions of sentences and you can get > a confidence interval for it. But this would be a poor substitute for > making individual decisions about repeated utterances. > Note finally that repetitions are treated completely differently in the > calculation of type-token ratios. In that measure, keeping repeats is > crucial. Perseverative or repetitous language brings TTRs down... are we > equally concerned? > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:32 AM, Brian MacWhinney wrote: > >> Dear Diane, >> As noted by Natasha Rakhlin, repetitions are typically excluded from >> MLU. This is done automatically and by default in the CLAN MLU program, >> using the marking of repetitions with the [/] and [//] >> symbols. There is also a program called REPEAT that can add these marks if >> they are not present, but it is safer to do this carefully when >> transcribing. >> >> — Brian MacWhinney >> >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin < >> diane.lillomartin at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for >> various types of analyses, especially MLU. >> >> In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, >> such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the >> ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or >> with some intervening talk. >> >> I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to >> the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in >> the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the >> command is set to exclude them. >> >> If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do >> you treat such repetitions? >> >> Many thanks in advance, >> Diane >> >> ---------- >> Diane Lillo-Martin >> University of Connecticut >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/FB66A613-71C6-4351-B668-D5E06DAE9DF0%40cmu.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAMWGojn2pTxdtvgcc0Y%3DuQDsNvWyYVCWh%2B6QRKWDXXzSCiuf7Q%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgordon at tc.edu Fri Jun 6 14:38:32 2014 From: pgordon at tc.edu (Gordon, Peter) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:38:32 -0400 Subject: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. Peter Gordon On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study > (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for > idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic > language expressions in a group intervention for > children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464.* > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Keith Nelson > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson > > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews > lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, > Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper > wrote: > >> Hi folks-- >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> "I know a shortcut" >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> a stomache who said" >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> motivated. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Hüseyin, >>> >>> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking >>> that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >>> >>> · (Concerning your question about the location of data >>> collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends >>> totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student >>> (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; >>> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be >>> the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean >>> Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their >>> list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of >>> prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities >>> overlap to the sufficient extent. >>> >>> · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you >>> assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >>> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >>> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >>> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >>> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >>> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >>> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >>> >>> · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of >>> the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather >>> than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, *some >>> birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have >>> some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >>> >>> · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too >>> much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >>> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >>> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >>> >>> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding >>> study. Good luck in all ways. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>>> >>>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >>>> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >>>> >>>> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >>>> language? >>>> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >>>> or more generally figurative language? >>>> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>>> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >>>> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >>>> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>>> perspective.) >>>> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Huseyin >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> 413 256 0390 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Peter Gordon, Associate Professor Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 Teachers College, Columbia University 1152 Thorndike Hall 525 W120th St. New York, NY 10027 Phone: 212 678-8162 Fax: 212 678-8233 E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From javier.aguadoorea at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 14:32:12 2014 From: javier.aguadoorea at gmail.com (Javier) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 07:32:12 -0700 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Since you are mentioning 'a software available to scan a passage', and considering that we are in info-childes (and to my knowledge nobody mentioned it here) this simple command (assuming that your passage is saved in plain txt) would pool out a list of words in the passage (sorted by descending frequency): freq +y +o your_passage.txt Hope this helps, Javier El jueves, 5 de junio de 2014 16:19:31 UTC+2, Dale, Philip escribió: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b8319e07-b5d0-47b6-89c7-369679465b8b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Fri Jun 6 15:36:26 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:36:26 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for all their help and suggestions. Clearly there are many ways in which frequency can important, depending on the research questions. The immediate stimulus for my message was not particularly about child language; I just assumed that there would be lots of expertise on this list, and I was right! I’m actually interested in using proportion of rare words (either as a dichotomy, or a mean level of frequency in the corpus database) as a potential ‘semantic’ aspect of readability of text not captured by most existing measures which primarily use word and sentence length. We’ll also be looking at syntactic complexity, especially in terms of independent clauses and temporal/causal/hierarchical structure. Ultimately the goal is to clarify individual differences in reading ability. Philip Dale From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 8:32 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Since you are mentioning 'a software available to scan a passage', and considering that we are in info-childes (and to my knowledge nobody mentioned it here) this simple command (assuming that your passage is saved in plain txt) would pool out a list of words in the passage (sorted by descending frequency): freq +y +o your_passage.txt Hope this helps, Javier El jueves, 5 de junio de 2014 16:19:31 UTC+2, Dale, Philip escribió: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b8319e07-b5d0-47b6-89c7-369679465b8b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b92c2649dbd9443f92c0802372375aba%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bpearson at research.umass.edu Fri Jun 6 16:03:28 2014 From: bpearson at research.umass.edu (Barbara Z. Pearson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 16:03:28 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Phil and others, I didn't jump in because we ended up using a printed word source--but since you're looking at reading... I am doing a project on narrative with a colleague in Communication Disorders here at UMass Amherst, Giang Pham. We kept coming across the term "tier 1" (and "tier 2 and 3" words), which I think comes from the Common Core, attributed to Isabel Beck, Margaret McKeown, and colleagues. When we looked for an authoritative (quantitative) source, we didn't find one. In fact, the basis seems to be guidelines for choosing which words will be most useful for one's own students. Anyway, I found an on-line word frequency database for children's printed word frequencies. (Children's Printed Word Database) I don't recommend it above others except that it's easy to access and (very) straightforward to use. (I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but I may easily have missed a posting or two.) http://www.essex.ac.uk/psychology/cpwd/ (University of Essex, an ESRC funded project.) last updated 2003 I put in a bunch of the words we wanted to call "tier 2" and ones that we questioned. But it's still hard to decide on a cut-off--and probably situation-specific. We didn't need to go further with it, but maybe someone on the list has more familiarity with this tiered vocabulary discussion. On the other hand, you might be hoping to tie off this thread. We've certainly already gotten a lot of good leads. Best wishes, Barbara ************************************************ Barbara Zurer Pearson, Ph.D. Research Associate Co-director, Language Acquisition Research Center c/o Linguistics, 226 South College University of Massachusetts Amherst Amherst MA 01003 bpearson at research.umass.edu http://www.umass.edu/aae/bp_indexold.htm http://www.zurer.com/pearson On Jun 6, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Philip Dale wrote: Thanks to everyone for all their help and suggestions. Clearly there are many ways in which frequency can important, depending on the research questions. The immediate stimulus for my message was not particularly about child language; I just assumed that there would be lots of expertise on this list, and I was right! I'm actually interested in using proportion of rare words (either as a dichotomy, or a mean level of frequency in the corpus database) as a potential 'semantic' aspect of readability of text not captured by most existing measures which primarily use word and sentence length. We'll also be looking at syntactic complexity, especially in terms of independent clauses and temporal/causal/hierarchical structure. Ultimately the goal is to clarify individual differences in reading ability. Philip Dale From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 8:32 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Since you are mentioning 'a software available to scan a passage', and considering that we are in info-childes (and to my knowledge nobody mentioned it here) this simple command (assuming that your passage is saved in plain txt) would pool out a list of words in the passage (sorted by descending frequency): freq +y +o your_passage.txt Hope this helps, Javier El jueves, 5 de junio de 2014 16:19:31 UTC+2, Dale, Philip escribió: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b8319e07-b5d0-47b6-89c7-369679465b8b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b92c2649dbd9443f92c0802372375aba%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2FE136DC-A221-4614-BC9E-B7BD4BC01FAC%40ads.umass.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From corrigan at uwm.edu Fri Jun 6 16:09:46 2014 From: corrigan at uwm.edu (Roberta L Corrigan) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:09:46 -0500 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Phil, Do you know about Coh-Metrix? This is an alternative readability measure that has been underdevelopment for many years by Danielle McNamara and Art Graesser. Here's a link to an Educational Researcher article that describes the measure: http://edr.sagepub.com/content/40/5/223.short You can also Google on Coh-metrix and find tons of information on it. Bobbi Corrigan ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Dale To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:36:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: list of common words Thanks to everyone for all their help and suggestions. Clearly there are many ways in which frequency can important, depending on the research questions. The immediate stimulus for my message was not particularly about child language; I just assumed that there would be lots of expertise on this list, and I was right! I’m actually interested in using proportion of rare words (either as a dichotomy, or a mean level of frequency in the corpus database) as a potential ‘semantic’ aspect of readability of text not captured by most existing measures which primarily use word and sentence length. We’ll also be looking at syntactic complexity, especially in terms of independent clauses and temporal/causal/hierarchical structure. Ultimately the goal is to clarify individual differences in reading ability. Philip Dale From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 8:32 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Since you are mentioning 'a software available to scan a passage', and considering that we are in info-childes (and to my knowledge nobody mentioned it here) this simple command (assuming that your passage is saved in plain txt) would pool out a list of words in the passage (sorted by descending frequency): freq +y +o your_passage.txt Hope this helps, Javier El jueves, 5 de junio de 2014 16:19:31 UTC+2, Dale, Philip escribió: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b8319e07-b5d0-47b6-89c7-369679465b8b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b92c2649dbd9443f92c0802372375aba%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Roberta Corrigan, Professor Emerita, Departments of Linguistics and Educational Psychology web page-- https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/corrigan/www/corriganhome.htm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1010504917.2140320.1402070986496.JavaMail.root%40uwm.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From todonnell at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 17:32:05 2014 From: todonnell at gmail.com (Timothy O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:32:05 -0700 Subject: CALL FOR PARTICIPATION: Cognitive Modeling and Computational Linguistics, 2014 Message-ID: CALL FOR PARTICIPATION Cognitive Modeling and Computational Linguistics 2014 (CMCL-2014) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cognitive Modeling and Computational Linguistics (CMCL) 2014 is a one-day workshop to be held in conjunction with the Annual Meeting of the Association for Computational Linguistics (ACL), Baltimore, Maryland on June 26th, 2014. This workshop provides a venue for work in computational psycholinguistics: computational and mathematical modeling of linguistic representation, development, and processing. http://cmcl.mit.edu/ Invited Speakers ---------------------- Ted Gibson (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) Naomi Feldman (University of Maryland) Full Worshop Program ------------------------------ Please see: http://cmcl.scripts.mit.edu/cmcl2014/?page_id=90 Workshop Chairs ----------------------- Vera Demberg Multimodal Computing and Interaction Cluster of Excellence, Saarland University, Germany Tim O’Donnell Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/894f45c4-5ad0-4e93-a39c-be8d0f1dcde2%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nippold at uoregon.edu Fri Jun 6 18:03:01 2014 From: nippold at uoregon.edu (Marilyn Nippold) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:03:01 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners Message-ID: It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: “The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I’ll walk very carefully.” That’s just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings). Marilyn Nippold University of Oregon USA From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. Peter Gordon On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Keith Nelson Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: Hi folks-- just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: "I know a shortcut" "well, I know a shorter cut" and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it relates to complex sentences. Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent to children's comprehension of them. A child with a stomache who said" "there's a fireengine in my stomach" or a child with a stuffed nose who said: "there's paint in my nose". Deviations from compositionality can still be logically motivated. Tom Roeper On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN wrote: Dear Hüseyin, (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) * (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. * One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. * Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. * Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: Dear all, First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: * What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language? * Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language? * Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? * What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.) * A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? Thanks, Huseyin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Peter Gordon, Associate Professor Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 Teachers College, Columbia University 1152 Thorndike Hall 525 W120th St. New York, NY 10027 Phone: 212 678-8162 Fax: 212 678-8233 E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macw at cmu.edu Fri Jun 6 20:36:32 2014 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 22:36:32 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It would be interesting to compare p-lex with voc-d. The former, devised by Meara and Bell compares small samples against standardized corpora; the latter devised by Malvern, Richards, and colleagues, and implemented inside CLAN as the VOCD program focuses more on Monte Carlo estimation from small samples. I wonder if anyone has ever attempted this interesting comparison. The book describing VOCD is: Malvern, D., Richards, B., Chipere, N., & Purán, P. (2004). Lexical diversity and language development. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. Ngoni, given that you were a co-author on this book about VOCD, could you tell us why you think that p-lex might be more useful than VOCD for this purpose? Many thanks, --Brian MacWhinney On Jun 6, 2014, at 10:54 AM, Ngoni Chipere wrote: > You might want to have a look at Paul Meara's p_lex program, dowloadable here: > > http://www.lognostics.co.uk/tools/index.htm > > and explained here: > > http://www.ameprc.mq.edu.au/docs/prospect_journal/volume_16_no_3/Prospect_16,3_article_1.pdf > > regards > > Ngoni > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CADSiM9BbmVxpUKaqNS8VTpWERzWdxp-RGcVY%2BuU978_AL1pFXw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2359CC65-1908-4011-9853-1A2C97D22A37%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ersilliman at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 21:04:43 2014 From: ersilliman at gmail.com (Elaine Silliman) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:04:43 -0400 Subject: Digest for info-childes@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 3 topics In-Reply-To: <20cf300fad75d0e71404fb2a4367@google.com> Message-ID: Phillip and all -- There is also a software program based on the Educators' Word Frequency Guide (Zeno et al., 1995) that will calculate the subclass of word frequency being sought. A web search should result in the order information. Also, Freddy Hiebert has developed a procedure for determining rare words as a measure of text complexity. Go to TextProject.org for further information , including her publications on this topic. Best, Elaine Silliman Elaine R. Silliman Professor Emeritus Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders University of South Florida Tampa, FL 33647 silliman at usf.edu On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 8:47 AM, wrote: > Today's topic summary > > Group: http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes/topics > > - list of common words <#1467138534e5c017_group_thread_0> [19 Updates] > - Repetitions in child production <#1467138534e5c017_group_thread_1> > [3 Updates] > - Idiom comprehension in child language > <#1467138534e5c017_group_thread_2> [2 Updates] > > list of common words > > > Philip Dale Jun 05 02:19PM > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > > > "Tager-Flusberg, Helen B" Jun 05 02:25PM > > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > Erika Hoff Jun 05 10:29AM -0400 > > Me too. > > Erika > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> > wrote: > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > > > > > Nan Bernstein Ratner Jun 05 02:45PM > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > Philip Dale Jun 05 03:06PM > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > Nan Bernstein Ratner Jun 05 03:08PM > > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our > child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), > and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of > maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > "Hedvig Skirgård" Jun 05 05:21PM +0200 > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or > BNC? > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Philip Dale Jun 05 03:23PM > > Could you spell those out? > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirgård > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or > BNC? > > /Hedvig > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our > child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), > and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of > maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > "Hedvig Skirgård" Jun 05 05:28PM +0200 > > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Nan Bernstein Ratner Jun 05 03:29PM > > OK, I am attaching Beals and Tabors, which explains the file and how > it was constructed; since it was to look at rare words as defined by speech > children are more likely to hear, the list was derived by using a list that > Chall and Dale composed, based on 4th grade vocabulary. Like Philip, I have > no idea what those other lists or resources are, but if you want to look at > CDS, this list has a reasonable pedigree. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:24 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Could you spell those out? > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirgård > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or > BNC? > > /Hedvig > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our > child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), > and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of > maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > "Hedvig Skirgård" Jun 05 05:30PM +0200 > > However, I don't really know what variety of English you're after, nor > genre or adult-adult or adult-child. > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Shelley Brundage Jun 05 11:30AM -0400 > > ho Folks > I was remembering something by Thorndike and Lorge. Here is some info > from > Wikipedia regarding 'traditional lists of word frequency": > > Traditional lists[edit > < > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Word_lists_by_frequency&action=edit§ion=10 > > > ]The Teachers Word Book of 30,000 words (Thorndike and Lorge, 1944) > > The TWB contains 30,000 lemmas or ~13,000 word families (Goulden, > Nation > and Read, 1990). A corpus of 18,000,000 written words was hand > analysed. > The size of its inputted corpus increased its usefulness, but its age > and > language change reduced its applicability (Nation 1997 > >). > The General Service List > (West, > 1953) > > The GSL contains 2,000 headwords divided into two sets of 1,000 words. > A > corpus of 5,000,000 written words was analysed in the 1940s. Rate of > occurrence (%) for different meanings and parts of speech of the > headword > are provided, while it was also a careful application of the various > criteria other than frequency and range. Thus, despite its age, some > errors, and its solely written base, it is still an excellent database > (word frequency, frequency of meanings, reduction of noise) (Nation > 1997 > >). > The American Heritage Word Frequency Book (Carroll, Davies and Richman, > 1971) > > A corpus of 5,000,000 running words, from written texts used in United > States schools (various grades, various subject areas). Its value is > in its > focus on school teaching materials, and its tagging of words, namely > the > frequency of each word in each of the school grade levels and in each > of > the subject areas (Nation 1997 > >). > The Brown (Francis and Kucera, 1982) LOB and related corpora > > These now contain 1,000,000 words from a written corpora representing > different dialects of English. These sources are used to produce > frequency > lists (Nation 1997 > >). > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Nan Bernstein Ratner > wrote: > > > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > > > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > Shelley B. Brundage, Ph.D., CCC-S > Associate Professor and Graduate Program Director > ASHA Fellow > Board Recognized Specialist and Mentor-Fluency Disorders > Speech and Hearing Science department > George Washington University > 2115 G St NW Suite 201 > Washington, D.C. 20052 > (202) 994-5008 office > (202 994-2205 lab > (202) 994-2589 fax > > > > > "Hedvig Skirgård" Jun 05 05:33PM +0200 > > COCA and BNC are both based on the Brown corpus structure, and much > larger. > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Philip Dale Jun 05 03:42PM > > Thanks so much. I should have been clearer at the outset. In this > case, I’m interested in adult-adult speech (for adult-child speech, as in > Goodman, Dale & Li, 2008, we used a FREQ analysis of CHILDES corpora). > COCA looks the best, as it actually has word frequencies. On first > examination, BNC is just the corpora, and you’d have to do the analyses > yourself. But I might be wrong here. > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirgård > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:29 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > /Hedvig > > 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>>: > Could you spell those out? > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirgård > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or > BNC? > > /Hedvig > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our > child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), > and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of > maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Yes, I’m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ‘rare’ words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > "Hedvig Skirgård" Jun 05 05:48PM +0200 > > You should use COCA or BNC depending on whether you're looking at a > American or British variety > > There are different ways of counting frequency, and you might not be > interested in all the material in COCA/BNC, so be aware of the > proportions > of genres, speakers etc. > > If you want to learn more about frequencies in the BNC, go here: > http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/using/index.xml?ID=other#freq > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Roberta Golinkoff Jun 05 01:56PM -0400 > > Masterson, J., Druks, J., & Gallienne, D. (2008). Object and action > picture > naming in 3- to 5-year-old children. *Journal of Child Language, 35*, > 373-402. > > I have found the above useful for their word lists. > Best, Roberta Golinkoff > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> > wrote: > > > -- > Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, Ph. D. > Unidel H. Rodney Sharp Professor > School of Education and Departments of Psychology and Linguistics and > Cognitive Science > University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716 > Office: 302-831-1634; Fax: 302-831-4110 > Web page: http://udel.edu/~roberta/ > PI on Institute of Education Sciences Postdoctoral Training Grant > The late Mary Dunn said, "Life is the time we have to learn." > > > > > walesgin Jun 05 02:24PM -0400 > > I asked my colleague Hans Stadthagen-Gonzalez about this, and he > replied > with the following, which may be of some help: > > I don’t know of any list of 3000 words per se, but there are several > word > frequency corpora that could easily be used for this. Out of the top > of my > head, CELEX or the British National Corpus (BNC) are widely used and > each > has a very large sample but are both for British English. A good > alternative for American English is Brysbaert’s SubtlexUS, which is > based > on movie subtitles and has been shown to explain a large portion of > variance in word recognition (in other words, it’s a good sample). You > can > find more info here:expsy.ugent.be/subtlexus/ > > If you need frequency counts for particular age groups, there’s the > Educator’s Word Frequency Guide, which is stratified by school grade > and > based on reading materials from Kindergarten through 12+ grade. > > Going back to the question, I would not frame it in terms of 3K words > and > whatever is not on the list is considered “rare”, but in terms of a > cutoff > frequency below which words are considered infrequent. The cutoff > would be > somewhat arbitrary and dependent on the purpose of the study (but > there is > literature out there discussing this issue). > > > > Best, > > > > > > V. C. Mueller Gathercole > Professor of Linguistics > Coordinator PhD Program > Florida International University > > > > > http://vcmuellergathercole.weebly.com/index.html > > *** SPECIAL OFFER to launch new books *Issues in the Assessment of > Bilinguals* and *Solutions for the Assessment of Bilinguals*, edited > by V C > Mueller Gathercole and published by Multilingual Matters: 30% off: > http://www.channelviewpublications.com/specialoffers.asp? > [TOC at: > http://vcmuellergathercole.weebly.com/selected-publications-books.html] > > Latest news from FIU's Linguistics Program: > http://linguisticshotnews.weebly.com > > Information on FIU's recent Barbara Gordon Lecture and Linguistics > Festival, Mar. 6 & 7: http://linguisticshotnews.weebly.com > > > > > > > Ngoni Chipere Jun 06 04:54AM -0400 > > You might want to have a look at Paul Meara's p_lex program, > dowloadable > here: > > http://www.lognostics.co.uk/tools/index.htm > > and explained here: > > > http://www.ameprc.mq.edu.au/docs/prospect_journal/volume_16_no_3/Prospect_16,3_article_1.pdf > > regards > > Ngoni > > > > > > > Christophe dos Santos Jun 06 > 02:17PM +0200 > > If you look for adult-adult oral language frequencies of American > English, > you may want to have a look to SUBTL database. > > http://subtlexus.lexique.org/ > > Best, > > Christophe dos Santos > Université François-Rabelais, Tours > > > > > > > Repetitions in child production > > > Diane Lillo-Martin Jun 05 12:04PM -0400 > > Dear all, > I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions > for > various types of analyses, especially MLU. > > In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, > such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the > ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either > immediate or > with some intervening talk. > > I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according > to > the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be > included in > the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the > command is set to exclude them. > > If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how > do you > treat such repetitions? > > Many thanks in advance, > Diane > > ---------- > Diane Lillo-Martin > University of Connecticut > > > > > "Rakhlin, Natalia" Jun 05 04:16PM > > Hi, Diane, > > Repetitions and other types of "mazes" (false starts, interjections, > self-corrections) are typically not included as countable utterance for MLU > calculation, although it may be included in some types of analyses > depending on your goal. There are some pretty good papers that describe > principled ways of chunking spoken language into analyzable units. Here is > one (but there may be better ones - if you would like, I can take a look > and send you more references): Foster, P., Tonkyn, A., & Wigglesworth > (2000). Measuring Spoken Language: a Unit for All Reasons, Applied > Linguistics, 21/3, 354-375. > > Best, > > Natasha > > > > > Natalia Rakhlin, Ph.D. > Child Study Center > Yale University > 230 South Frontage Rd > New Haven CT 06519-1124 > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin wrote: > > Dear all, > I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions > for various types of analyses, especially MLU. > > In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase > repetitions, such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing > with the ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either > immediate or with some intervening talk. > > I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according > to the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included > in the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the > command is set to exclude them. > > If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how > do you treat such repetitions? > > Many thanks in advance, > Diane > > ---------- > Diane Lillo-Martin > University of Connecticut > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > Brian MacWhinney Jun 06 09:32AM +0200 > > Dear Diane, > As noted by Natasha Rakhlin, repetitions are typically excluded from > MLU. This is done automatically and by default in the CLAN MLU program, > using the marking of repetitions with the [/] and [//] > symbols. There is also a program called REPEAT that can add these marks if > they are not present, but it is safer to do this carefully when > transcribing. > > — Brian MacWhinney > > > > > > Idiom comprehension in child language > > > Tom Roeper Jun 05 09:44AM -0400 > > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > "I know a shortcut" > "well, I know a shorter cut" > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > a stomache who said" > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > > > > Keith Nelson Jun 05 11:44AM -0400 > > Hi all. I m attaching a JCL paper just out from our lab that reviews > lit > and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, > Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper > wrote: > > > > > -- *Elaine R. Silliman, Ph.D.* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAC%2BWDHa-BSfN%2BeQJEKkCPCKLZKz7pR0KvSsoYJJ-k6vtRhSXLQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgordon at tc.edu Sat Jun 7 22:58:32 2014 From: pgordon at tc.edu (Gordon, Peter) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 18:58:32 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: <009601cf81b1$8e84dc20$ab8e9460$@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Hi Marilyn, I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. Fun to think about! Peter On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold wrote: > It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) > often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is > because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are > culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* > avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the > English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that > the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in > the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in > the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning > English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily > translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb > is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: > > “The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I’ll > walk very carefully.” That’s just the nature of different types of > figurative expressions (and human beings). > > Marilyn Nippold > > University of Oregon > > USA > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ]* On > Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter > *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language > > One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) > L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the > non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect > phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native > speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to > mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. > > Peter Gordon > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* > > wrote: > > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study > (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for > idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of > idiomatic language expressions in a group > intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , > Keith Nelson <*keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews > lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, > Keith > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* > > wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > > "I know a shortcut" > > "well, I know a shorter cut" > > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > > in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > > a stomache who said" > > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* > > wrote: > > Dear Hüseyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here > thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > · (Concerning your question about the location of data > collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends > totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student > (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; > watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may > be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in > Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences > depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic > and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of > prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. > > · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, > you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of > compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic > unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the > whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it > comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality > Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of > pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > · Another thing to concentrate on may be the > prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic > expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical > elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some > idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or > regarding other qualities. > > · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be > too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal > observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions > or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your > demanding study. Good luck in all ways. > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* > wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first > question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the > point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language > development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) > experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature > in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by > Gibbs and Colston in > *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* > ). So my > questions are as follows: > > · What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child > language? > > · Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, > or more generally figurative language? > > · Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > > · What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in > idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism > or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another > perspective.) > > · A third research field having just popped into my mind is child > directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > > Huseyin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* > . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > *413 256 0390* <413%20256%200390> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* > . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* > . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > > > -- > > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > > Teachers College, Columbia University > > 1152 Thorndike Hall > > 525 W120th St. > > New York, NY 10027 > > Phone: 212 678-8162 > > Fax: 212 678-8233 > > E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* > > Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* > . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Peter Gordon, Associate Professor Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 Teachers College, Columbia University 1152 Thorndike Hall 525 W120th St. New York, NY 10027 Phone: 212 678-8162 Fax: 212 678-8233 E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 05:40:58 2014 From: marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk (Marilyn Vihman) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:40:58 +0300 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Peter, This is an interesting new strand to the discussion! Without being a neuro specialist at all, I'd just like to comment on your idea about the second hypothesis. Based on the work of Bates, Thal and their group on language learning in children with focal lesions - as well as on much other work on hemispheric specialization - it seems that in at least in L1 novel expressions will first be picked up by the RH because it is attuned to what is novel and is the first port for holistic processing. This all fits well enough with what you say, except for the 'shunting...into RH'. A difference from L2 would be that the linguistic analysis by the LH is likely not to function at all in L1 until some criterial amount of holistic word/phrase knowledge has been picked up by the RH (John Locke had an interesting 1994 paper about the transfer of early L1 linguistic knowledge to LH; I doubt that it is quite right, but I don't know of an alternative view). (I realise that the LH has been shown to be active in consonant discrimination more or less from birth, but that is not the same thing as processing lexical items, of course.) In L2, on the other hand, the LH is already functional for sublexical analysis - even in very young L2 learners, so idioms, on your 2nd hypothesis, could begin to be (mistakenly) analysed into components wherever the individual lexical items are known before the idiom as a whole is encountered - again, more likely in L2 than in L1. One thing to add is that very young L2 learners, whose phonological memory has already begun to be constructed with linguistic memory (see Keren-Portnoy et al. 2010, JSLHR), tend generally to begin L2 learning with chunks or formulaic language - i.e., with longer lexical units than single words - unlike most L1 learners (see Vihman 1982, in Obler & Menn's book on Exceptional Language). I'm not sure how to follow out the implications of this in relation to idiom learning...but yes, this is a fun topic to brainstorm about! -marilyn vihman On 8 Jun 2014, at 01:58, "Gordon, Peter" wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > > I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. > > Fun to think about! > > Peter > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold wrote: > It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: > > "The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I'll walk very carefully." That's just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings). > > Marilyn Nippold > > University of Oregon > > USA > > > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language > > > One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. > > > Peter Gordon > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: > > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Keith Nelson > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > > "I know a shortcut" > > "well, I know a shorter cut" > > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > > in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > > relates to complex sentences. > > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > > a stomache who said" > > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > > "there's paint in my nose". > > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > > motivated. > > > Tom Roeper > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN wrote: > > Dear Hüseyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > · (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as "prototype words"; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. > > · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions' containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. > > · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. > > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: > > · What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language? > > · Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language? > > · Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > > · What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.) > > · A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > > Huseyin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > > Teachers College, Columbia University > > 1152 Thorndike Hall > > 525 W120th St. > > New York, NY 10027 > > Phone: 212 678-8162 > > Fax: 212 678-8233 > > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > Teachers College, Columbia University > 1152 Thorndike Hall > 525 W120th St. > New York, NY 10027 > Phone: 212 678-8162 > Fax: 212 678-8233 > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Marilyn Vihman Language and Linguistic Science Vanbrugh College V/C/207 University of York Heslington YO10 5DD tel +44 (0)1904 323612 http://www.yorkphondev.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/D3BD1863-4E94-458E-9537-D73EB89C4FEA%40york.ac.uk. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macw at cmu.edu Sun Jun 8 06:43:40 2014 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:43:40 +0200 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Peter, There is indeed a lot of evidence that second language learners adopt an analytic approach that short-circuits chunking. However, often the source of their errors and incomplete learning is transfer, rather than inadequate episodic encoding or chunking. Of course, L2 learners have a perfectly intact RH, so perhaps we want to trace at least some of the problems L2 learners have with idioms to inadequate input. I am thinking about the interactions I had recently with my granddaughter about the idioms of "pain in the neck" and "pain in the butt". I must have spent about 10 minutes explaining to her that these were not literally pains, but rather difficult situations or people. She found it all quite amusing. If I had spent the same amount of time indulging a second language learner with all the same explanations, I think they would have benefitted just the same. But, typically, we are not as patient with second language learners as we are with our children and grandchildren. I realize that one anecdote does not prove a point, but trying to find examples of parental tutorials on idioms in even the richest transcript database is going to be difficult. Instead, I would point to Chukovskij's "From Two to Five" and similar diary-type materials to see how children work together with adults to dig out the meanings of idioms. -- Brian MacWhinney On Jun 8, 2014, at 12:58 AM, Gordon, Peter wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > > I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. > > Fun to think about! > > Peter > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold wrote: > It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: > > "The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I'll walk very carefully." That's just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings). > > Marilyn Nippold > > University of Oregon > > USA > > > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language > > > One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. > > > Peter Gordon > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: > > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Keith Nelson > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > > "I know a shortcut" > > "well, I know a shorter cut" > > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > > in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > > relates to complex sentences. > > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > > a stomache who said" > > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > > "there's paint in my nose". > > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > > motivated. > > > Tom Roeper > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN wrote: > > Dear Hüseyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > · (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as "prototype words"; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. > > · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions' containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. > > · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. > > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: > > · What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language? > > · Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language? > > · Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > > · What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.) > > · A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > > Huseyin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > > Teachers College, Columbia University > > 1152 Thorndike Hall > > 525 W120th St. > > New York, NY 10027 > > Phone: 212 678-8162 > > Fax: 212 678-8233 > > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > Teachers College, Columbia University > 1152 Thorndike Hall > 525 W120th St. > New York, NY 10027 > Phone: 212 678-8162 > Fax: 212 678-8233 > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/881C1734-26A6-4AA5-ABE3-DC902529F314%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k1n at psu.edu Sun Jun 8 12:57:33 2014 From: k1n at psu.edu (Keith Nelson) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:57:33 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: <881C1734-26A6-4AA5-ABE3-DC902529F314@cmu.edu> Message-ID: Peter, Brian, Marilyn, all. I believe that there is an additional complication for these issues. Namely, tho L2 learners often find idioms difficult, so do L1 learners. That is, relative to the difficulty/age of acquisition for idioms and metaphors the vast majority of lexical and syntactic structures are less difficult--idioms, metaphors, and a small set of syntactic structures are "late acquisitions." As regards the relevant interactions that Brian has mentioned, in naturalistic work the literature appears pretty silent. We have shown in the Autism paper cited earlier that for children with ASD idioms are indeed very late acquisitions, but that a small number of engaging and varied interactions about idiom meaning lead to rapid mastery. Cheers, Keith On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Brian MacWhinney wrote: > Peter, > > There is indeed a lot of evidence that second language learners adopt > an analytic approach that short-circuits chunking. However, often the > source of their errors and incomplete learning is transfer, rather than > inadequate episodic encoding or chunking. > Of course, L2 learners have a perfectly intact RH, so perhaps we want > to trace at least some of the problems L2 learners have with idioms to > inadequate input. I am thinking about the interactions I had recently with > my granddaughter about the idioms of “pain in the neck” and “pain in the > butt”. I must have spent about 10 minutes explaining to her that these > were not literally pains, but rather difficult situations or people. She > found it all quite amusing. If I had spent the same amount of time > indulging a second language learner with all the same explanations, I think > they would have benefitted just the same. But, typically, we are not as > patient with second language learners as we are with our children and > grandchildren. > I realize that one anecdote does not prove a point, but trying to find > examples of parental tutorials on idioms in even the richest transcript > database is going to be difficult. Instead, I would point to Chukovskij’s > “From Two to Five” and similar diary-type materials to see how children > work together with adults to dig out the meanings of idioms. > > — Brian MacWhinney > > On Jun 8, 2014, at 12:58 AM, Gordon, Peter wrote: > > Hi Marilyn, > > I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with > idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. > "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning > their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is > it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack > the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case > of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner > just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to > figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in > the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in > this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a > young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could > explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). > One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are > processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This > suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts > idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, > where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not > possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits > of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are > candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. > > Fun to think about! > > Peter > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold > wrote: > >> It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) >> often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is >> because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are >> culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* >> avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the >> English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that >> the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in >> the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in >> the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning >> English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily >> translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb >> is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: >> >> “The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I’ll >> walk very carefully.” That’s just the nature of different types of >> figurative expressions (and human beings). >> >> Marilyn Nippold >> >> University of Oregon >> >> USA >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ >> mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ]* >> On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter >> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language >> >> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) >> L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the >> non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect >> phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native >> speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to >> mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. >> >> Peter Gordon >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* > >> wrote: >> >> HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study >> (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for >> idioms. Best regards, Keith N >> >> >> *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of >> idiomatic language expressions in a group >> intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > >> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM >> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language >> To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , >> Keith Nelson <*keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > >> >> Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews >> lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, >> Keith >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* >> > wrote: >> >> Hi folks-- >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> >> "I know a shortcut" >> >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> >> in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> >> a stomache who said" >> >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> >> motivated. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* >> > wrote: >> >> Dear Hüseyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here >> thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> · (Concerning your question about the location of data >> collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends >> totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student >> (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; >> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may >> be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in >> Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences >> depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic >> and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of >> prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, >> you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> · Another thing to concentrate on may be the >> prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic >> expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical >> elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some >> idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or >> regarding other qualities. >> >> · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would >> be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your >> demanding study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* >> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >> >> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the >> point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language >> development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) >> experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature >> in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by >> Gibbs and Colston in >> *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* >> ). So my >> questions are as follows: >> >> · What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in >> child language? >> >> · Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >> or more generally figurative language? >> >> · Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >> >> · What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >> perspective.) >> >> · A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Huseyin >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> *413 256 0390* <413%20256%200390> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> >> 525 W120th St. >> >> New York, NY 10027 >> >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> >> E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* >> >> Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > Teachers College, Columbia University > 1152 Thorndike Hall > 525 W120th St. > New York, NY 10027 > Phone: 212 678-8162 > Fax: 212 678-8233 > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/881C1734-26A6-4AA5-ABE3-DC902529F314%40cmu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT630BDdt2wCHi%2BJXmj4GGc3Pw7_GnGr-52aHdZHg%2BPk5x%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philliphamrick at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 12:14:39 2014 From: philliphamrick at gmail.com (Phillip Hamrick) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 05:14:39 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Very interesting, Marylin. Has there been any further evidence since Vihman (in Obler & Menn) demonstrating that child L2 learners rely more extensively on chunks and formulaic language? Or is that the last demonstration you know of? There is tons of evidence for such formulaic over-reliance in adult L2s, but I've always heard--perhaps from being more in a usage-based background--that children relied on formulas early on, regardless of L1 or L2. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated. Great topic! Phillip Hamrick, Ph.D. Assistant Professor PI, Language and Cognition Research Laboratory Department of English Kent State University Kent, OH 44242 On Sunday, June 8, 2014 1:41:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Vihman wrote: > > Dear Peter, > > This is an interesting new strand to the discussion! Without being a neuro > specialist at all, I'd just like to comment on your idea about the second > hypothesis. Based on the work of Bates, Thal and their group on language > learning in children with focal lesions - as well as on much other work on > hemispheric specialization - it seems that in at least in L1 novel > expressions will first be picked up by the RH because it is attuned to what > is novel and is the first port for holistic processing. This all fits well > enough with what you say, except for the 'shunting…into RH'. A difference > from L2 would be that the linguistic analysis by the LH is likely not to > function at all in L1 until some criterial amount of holistic word/phrase > knowledge has been picked up by the RH (John Locke had an interesting 1994 > paper about the transfer of early L1 linguistic knowledge to LH; I doubt > that it is quite right, but I don't know of an alternative view). (I > realise that the LH has been shown to be active in consonant discrimination > more or less from birth, but that is not the same thing as processing > lexical items, of course.) In L2, on the other hand, the LH is already > functional for sublexical analysis - even in very young L2 learners, > so idioms, on your 2nd hypothesis, could begin to be (mistakenly) analysed > into components wherever the individual lexical items are known before the > idiom as a whole is encountered - again, more likely in L2 than in L1. > > One thing to add is that very young L2 learners, whose phonological memory > has already begun to be constructed with linguistic memory (see > Keren-Portnoy et al. 2010, *JSLHR*), tend generally to *begin* L2 > learning with chunks or formulaic language - i.e., with longer lexical > units than single words - unlike most L1 learners (see Vihman 1982, in > Obler & Menn's book on *Exceptional Language*). I'm not sure how to > follow out the implications of this in relation to idiom learning…but yes, > this is a fun topic to brainstorm about! > > -marilyn vihman > > On 8 Jun 2014, at 01:58, "Gordon, Peter" > > wrote: > > Hi Marilyn, > > I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with > idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. > "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning > their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is > it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack > the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case > of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner > just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to > figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in > the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in > this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a > young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could > explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). > One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are > processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This > suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts > idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, > where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not > possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits > of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are > candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. > > Fun to think about! > > Peter > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold > wrote: > >> It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) >> often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is >> because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are >> culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* >> avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the >> English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that >> the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in >> the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in >> the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning >> English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily >> translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb >> is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: >> >> “The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I’ll >> walk very carefully.” That’s just the nature of different types of >> figurative expressions (and human beings). >> >> Marilyn Nippold >> >> University of Oregon >> >> USA >> >> >> >> *From:* info-c... at googlegroups.com [ >> mailto:in... at googlegroups.com ]* On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter >> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM >> *To:* info-c... at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language >> >> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) >> L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the >> non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect >> phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native >> speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to >> mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. >> >> Peter Gordon >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* > >> wrote: >> >> HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study >> (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for >> idioms. Best regards, Keith N >> >> >> *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of >> idiomatic language expressions in a group >> intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > >> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM >> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language >> To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , Keith Nelson < >> *keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > >> >> Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews >> lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, >> Keith >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* >> > wrote: >> >> Hi folks-- >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> >> "I know a shortcut" >> >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> >> in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> >> a stomache who said" >> >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> >> motivated. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* >> > wrote: >> >> Dear Hüseyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here >> thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> · (Concerning your question about the location of data >> collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends >> totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student >> (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; >> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may >> be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in >> Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences >> depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic >> and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of >> prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, >> you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> · Another thing to concentrate on may be the >> prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic >> expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical >> elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some >> idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or >> regarding other qualities. >> >> · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would >> be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your >> demanding study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >> >> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the >> point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language >> development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) >> experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature >> in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by >> Gibbs and Colston in >> *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* >> ). So my >> questions are as follows: >> >> · What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in >> child language? >> >> · Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >> or more generally figurative language? >> >> · Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >> >> · What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >> perspective.) >> >> · A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Huseyin >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> *413 256 0390* >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> >> 525 W120th St. >> >> New York, NY 10027 >> >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> >> E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* >> >> Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > Teachers College, Columbia University > 1152 Thorndike Hall > 525 W120th St. > New York, NY 10027 > Phone: 212 678-8162 > Fax: 212 678-8233 > E-mail: pgo... at tc.edu > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > Marilyn Vihman > Language and Linguistic Science > Vanbrugh College V/C/207 > University of York > Heslington > YO10 5DD > tel +44 (0)1904 323612 > http://www.yorkphondev.org > > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/d5dbc689-113d-4067-a5f3-b5c93023c402%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 12:26:42 2014 From: marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk (Marilyn Vihman) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:26:42 +0300 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Philip, I haven't really kept up with the literature on this, but Alison Wray has a relatively recent book on formulaic language use, which I think has a section on acquisition(I'm away at the moment so can't check the book on my shelf). For L1 it is definitely not the rule - not what you find in most cases, with the exception of a small number of early learned phrases like 'what's this' which are to a child as much a single unit as 'goodbye' or 'thank you'... -marilyn On 9 Jun 2014, at 15:14, Phillip Hamrick wrote: > Very interesting, Marylin. Has there been any further evidence since Vihman (in Obler & Menn) demonstrating that child L2 learners rely more extensively on chunks and formulaic language? Or is that the last demonstration you know of? There is tons of evidence for such formulaic over-reliance in adult L2s, but I've always heard--perhaps from being more in a usage-based background--that children relied on formulas early on, regardless of L1 or L2. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated. > > Great topic! > > Phillip Hamrick, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > PI, Language and Cognition Research Laboratory > Department of English > Kent State University > Kent, OH 44242 > > On Sunday, June 8, 2014 1:41:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Vihman wrote: > Dear Peter, > > This is an interesting new strand to the discussion! Without being a neuro specialist at all, I'd just like to comment on your idea about the second hypothesis. Based on the work of Bates, Thal and their group on language learning in children with focal lesions - as well as on much other work on hemispheric specialization - it seems that in at least in L1 novel expressions will first be picked up by the RH because it is attuned to what is novel and is the first port for holistic processing. This all fits well enough with what you say, except for the 'shunting...into RH'. A difference from L2 would be that the linguistic analysis by the LH is likely not to function at all in L1 until some criterial amount of holistic word/phrase knowledge has been picked up by the RH (John Locke had an interesting 1994 paper about the transfer of early L1 linguistic knowledge to LH; I doubt that it is quite right, but I don't know of an alternative view). (I realise that the LH has been shown to be active in consonant discrimination more or less from birth, but that is not the same thing as processing lexical items, of course.) In L2, on the other hand, the LH is already functional for sublexical analysis - even in very young L2 learners, so idioms, on your 2nd hypothesis, could begin to be (mistakenly) analysed into components wherever the individual lexical items are known before the idiom as a whole is encountered - again, more likely in L2 than in L1. > > One thing to add is that very young L2 learners, whose phonological memory has already begun to be constructed with linguistic memory (see Keren-Portnoy et al. 2010, JSLHR), tend generally to begin L2 learning with chunks or formulaic language - i.e., with longer lexical units than single words - unlike most L1 learners (see Vihman 1982, in Obler & Menn's book on Exceptional Language). I'm not sure how to follow out the implications of this in relation to idiom learning...but yes, this is a fun topic to brainstorm about! > > -marilyn vihman > > On 8 Jun 2014, at 01:58, "Gordon, Peter" wrote: > >> Hi Marilyn, >> >> I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. >> >> Fun to think about! >> >> Peter >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold wrote: >> It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: >> >> "The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I'll walk very carefully." That's just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings). >> >> Marilyn Nippold >> >> University of Oregon >> >> USA >> >> >> >> >> From: info-c... at googlegroups.com [mailto:in... at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter >> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM >> To: info-c... at googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language >> >> >> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. >> >> >> Peter Gordon >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: >> >> HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N >> >> >> Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464. >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Keith Nelson >> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM >> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language >> To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson >> >> Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: >> >> Hi folks-- >> >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> >> "I know a shortcut" >> >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> >> in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> >> a stomache who said" >> >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> >> motivated. >> >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN wrote: >> >> Dear Hüseyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> · (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as "prototype words"; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions' containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >> >> · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >> >> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >> >> · What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language? >> >> · Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language? >> >> · Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >> >> · What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.) >> >> · A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Huseyin >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> 413 256 0390 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> >> 525 W120th St. >> >> New York, NY 10027 >> >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> >> E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu >> >> Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> 525 W120th St. >> New York, NY 10027 >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> E-mail: pgo... at tc.edu >> Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > Marilyn Vihman > Language and Linguistic Science > Vanbrugh College V/C/207 > University of York > Heslington > YO10 5DD > tel +44 (0)1904 323612 > http://www.yorkphondev.org > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/d5dbc689-113d-4067-a5f3-b5c93023c402%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Marilyn Vihman Language and Linguistic Science Vanbrugh College V/C/207 University of York Heslington YO10 5DD tel +44 (0)1904 323612 http://www.yorkphondev.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/9F125403-E04A-48BD-A81F-8D169F0FDA49%40york.ac.uk. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roeper at linguist.umass.edu Mon Jun 9 13:07:22 2014 From: roeper at linguist.umass.edu (Tom Roeper) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 09:07:22 -0400 Subject: my acquisition course online Message-ID: Dear Everyone--- My undergraduage course on Language Acquisition will be offered online through the UMass dept of LIngjuistics and the Center http://www.umassulearn.net/classes/search. It will be in August 2014. The class is based on videos of my course which cover the experimental work on recursion, long-distance movement, quantification, parameter-setting and many of the experiments carried out at UMass and the Language Acquisition Research Center here which has participants from Smith and L2, ComDis and other depts. A number of graduate students have taken the course as well. Please let any interested students know There are still openings and if you or any students are interested, they should sign up. If they would like further information, I would be happy to correspond with them or any of you. Tom Roeper -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSnRbYrks3UL%2BVKvpxqao7sUK7T4gKq19eRnUUY8cjcv-A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 13:35:45 2014 From: aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com (Aliyah MORGENSTERN) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:35:45 +0200 Subject: my acquisition course online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Tom, I'm not sure this relates to your specific course, but it looks like it will be only possible for Americans living in the States (excluding certain States actually Alabama, Kansas and Arkansas, poor souls), so a lot of us in this list might not have access. http://www.umassulearn.net/online-learning I would have been interested in having some graduate students register but they live in ... Paris. Best, Aliyah Morgenstern Professor of Linguistics Sorbonne Nouvelle University Le 9 juin 2014 à 15:07, Tom Roeper a écrit : > Dear Everyone--- > > My undergraduage course on Language Acquisition will be > offered online through the UMass dept of LIngjuistics and > the Center http://www.umassulearn.net/classes/search. > It will be in August 2014. > The class is based on videos of my course which cover > the experimental work on recursion, long-distance movement, > quantification, parameter-setting and many of the experiments > carried out at UMass and the Language Acquisition Research > Center here which has participants from Smith and L2, ComDis > and other depts. > A number of graduate students have taken the course as > well. > Please let any interested students know There are still openings and if you or any students are > interested, they should sign up. If they would like further information, I would be happy to correspond with them or any of you. > > Tom Roeper > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSnRbYrks3UL%2BVKvpxqao7sUK7T4gKq19eRnUUY8cjcv-A%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/83A605E5-E570-4A7B-B00E-BE128B98C033%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philliphamrick at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 14:00:23 2014 From: philliphamrick at gmail.com (Phillip Hamrick) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 07:00:23 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: <009601cf81b1$8e84dc20$ab8e9460$@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Marylin! On Friday, June 6, 2014 2:02:59 PM UTC-4, nip... at uoregon.edu wrote: > > It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) > often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is > because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are > culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* > avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the > English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that > the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in > the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in > the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning > English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily > translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb > is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: > > “The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I’ll > walk very carefully.” That’s just the nature of different types of > figurative expressions (and human beings). > > Marilyn Nippold > > University of Oregon > > USA > > *From:* info-c... at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:in... at googlegroups.com ]* On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter > *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM > *To:* info-c... at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language > > One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) > L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the > non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect > phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native > speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to > mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. > > Peter Gordon > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* > > wrote: > > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study > (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for > idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of > idiomatic language expressions in a group > intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , Keith Nelson < > *keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews > lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, > Keith > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* > > wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > > "I know a shortcut" > > "well, I know a shorter cut" > > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > > in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > > a stomache who said" > > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* > > wrote: > > Dear Hüseyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here > thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > · (Concerning your question about the location of data > collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends > totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student > (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; > watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may > be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in > Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences > depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic > and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of > prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. > > · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, > you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of > compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic > unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the > whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it > comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality > Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of > pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > · Another thing to concentrate on may be the > prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic > expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical > elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some > idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or > regarding other qualities. > > · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be > too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal > observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions > or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your > demanding study. Good luck in all ways. > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first > question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the > point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language > development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) > experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature > in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by > Gibbs and Colston in > *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* > ). So my > questions are as follows: > > · What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child > language? > > · Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, > or more generally figurative language? > > · Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > > · What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in > idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism > or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another > perspective.) > > · A third research field having just popped into my mind is child > directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > > Huseyin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > *413 256 0390* > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > > > -- > > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > > Teachers College, Columbia University > > 1152 Thorndike Hall > > 525 W120th St. > > New York, NY 10027 > > Phone: 212 678-8162 > > Fax: 212 678-8233 > > E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* > > Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a9b4e9d2-f4ee-4f81-ac10-7153f195dbfb%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgordon at tc.edu Mon Jun 9 18:28:21 2014 From: pgordon at tc.edu (Gordon, Peter) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 14:28:21 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Everyone, thanks for chiming in on this interesting discussion. The original basis for my speculations about laterality were based on work by Diana Van Lanckner, who has several studies showing that formulaic expressions are preserved in LH Aphasic patients (e.g., a Broca's aphasic will have extreme difficulty putting words together to form novel sentences but will produce a perfectly fluent sentence if it is idiomatic or otherwise formulaic.) On the other hand, patients with right hemisphere strokes tend to selectively loose access to those same formulaic expressions. So, there seems to be prima facie evidence that the Left-Right double dissociation exists. The issue with L2 learners is not that they have unintact right hemispheres -- I assume Brian was being a bit flippant here of course; but in a similar vein, Brian seems to have been a much more attentive grandfather than I was ever a father, since I cannot recall ever having explained any idioms to my daughter, yet she seems to have mastered them very adequately. My hypothesis would be that semantic encoding bypasses certain kinds of information processing pathways in L2 learning. I think that I would disagree with Marilyn's suggestion here that the root is developmental bypassing of the RH route (if I'm reading this correctly). If we think of how information gets to left vs right hemisphere, one can think of it has fundamentally an issue of fast vs. slow sampling of information, either in the spatial or temporal mode. So LH information processing gathers rapidly changing information such as phoneme transitions into syllables and words, whereas RH samples more slowly changing information such as intonation contour, discourse structure and, yes, formulaic language, idioms and non-compositional pragmatic inference (e.g., "can you pass the salt?") In the spatial domain, the equivalent distinction would be things like LH shape recognition through changes in brightness values at the contour and texture, versus slow sampling in RH of changes in brightness values in the environment to encode spatial layouts in larger spaces to determine relative positions and geographical representations of space. It seems plausible that the "natural" implicit method of language learning in children incorporates information in both modalities (slow and fast) as plausible candidates for the meaningful interpretation of noises that come out of peoples' mouths. On the other hand, Late L2 learners might focus primarily on form-form-meaning correspondences that bypass the more global assessments of the informational environment. Peter Gordon On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: > Peter, Brian, Marilyn, all. I believe that there is an additional > complication for these issues. Namely, tho L2 learners often find idioms > difficult, so do L1 learners. That is, relative to the difficulty/age of > acquisition for idioms and metaphors the vast majority of lexical and > syntactic structures are less difficult--idioms, metaphors, and a small set > of syntactic structures are "late acquisitions." > > As regards the relevant interactions that Brian has mentioned, in > naturalistic work the literature appears pretty silent. We have shown in > the Autism paper cited earlier that for children with ASD idioms are indeed > very late acquisitions, but that a small number of engaging and varied > interactions about idiom meaning lead to rapid mastery. > > Cheers, Keith > > > On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Brian MacWhinney wrote: > >> Peter, >> >> There is indeed a lot of evidence that second language learners >> adopt an analytic approach that short-circuits chunking. However, often >> the source of their errors and incomplete learning is transfer, rather >> than inadequate episodic encoding or chunking. >> Of course, L2 learners have a perfectly intact RH, so perhaps we >> want to trace at least some of the problems L2 learners have with idioms to >> inadequate input. I am thinking about the interactions I had recently with >> my granddaughter about the idioms of “pain in the neck” and “pain in the >> butt”. I must have spent about 10 minutes explaining to her that these >> were not literally pains, but rather difficult situations or people. She >> found it all quite amusing. If I had spent the same amount of time >> indulging a second language learner with all the same explanations, I think >> they would have benefitted just the same. But, typically, we are not as >> patient with second language learners as we are with our children and >> grandchildren. >> I realize that one anecdote does not prove a point, but trying to >> find examples of parental tutorials on idioms in even the richest >> transcript database is going to be difficult. Instead, I would point to >> Chukovskij’s “From Two to Five” and similar diary-type materials to see how >> children work together with adults to dig out the meanings of idioms. >> >> — Brian MacWhinney >> >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 12:58 AM, Gordon, Peter wrote: >> >> Hi Marilyn, >> >> I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with >> idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. >> "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning >> their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is >> it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack >> the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case >> of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner >> just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to >> figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in >> the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in >> this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a >> young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could >> explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). >> One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are >> processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This >> suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts >> idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, >> where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not >> possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits >> of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are >> candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. >> >> Fun to think about! >> >> Peter >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold >> wrote: >> >>> It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) >>> often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is >>> because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are >>> culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* >>> avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the >>> English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that >>> the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in >>> the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down >>> in the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning >>> English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more >>> easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following >>> proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: >>> >>> “The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I’ll >>> walk very carefully.” That’s just the nature of different types of >>> figurative expressions (and human beings). >>> >>> Marilyn Nippold >>> >>> University of Oregon >>> >>> USA >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ >>> mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ]* >>> On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter >>> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM >>> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language >>> >>> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are >>> (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in >>> the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have >>> perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from >>> native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow >>> linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. >>> >>> Peter Gordon >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* >>> > wrote: >>> >>> HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study >>> (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for >>> idioms. Best regards, Keith N >>> >>> >>> *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of >>> idiomatic language expressions in a group >>> intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > >>> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM >>> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language >>> To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , >>> Keith Nelson <*keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > >>> >>> Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that >>> reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. >>> Cheers, Keith >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks-- >>> >>> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >>> >>> "I know a shortcut" >>> >>> "well, I know a shorter cut" >>> >>> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >>> >>> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >>> >>> in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >>> >>> relates to complex sentences. >>> >>> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >>> >>> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >>> >>> a stomache who said" >>> >>> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >>> >>> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >>> >>> "there's paint in my nose". >>> >>> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >>> >>> motivated. >>> >>> Tom Roeper >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Dear Hüseyin, >>> >>> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here >>> thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >>> >>> · (Concerning your question about the location of data >>> collection) The location you are going to collect the data >>> depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her >>> student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype >>> words”; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in >>> Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in >>> Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences >>> depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic >>> and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of >>> prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. >>> >>> · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I >>> understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the >>> framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger >>> linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each >>> element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, >>> especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, >>> Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain >>> the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your >>> assumptions. >>> >>> · Another thing to concentrate on may be the >>> prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic >>> expressions) itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical >>> elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. >>> Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally >>> or regarding other qualities. >>> >>> · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would >>> be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >>> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >>> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >>> >>> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your >>> demanding study. Good luck in all ways. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>> >>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in >>> *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* >>> ). So my >>> questions are as follows: >>> >>> · What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in >>> child language? >>> >>> · Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >>> or more generally figurative language? >>> >>> · Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>> >>> · What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >>> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >>> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>> perspective.) >>> >>> · A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Huseyin >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tom Roeper >>> Dept of Lingiustics >>> UMass South College >>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >>> *413 256 0390* <413%20256%200390> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >>> . >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >>> >>> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >>> >>> Teachers College, Columbia University >>> >>> 1152 Thorndike Hall >>> >>> 525 W120th St. >>> >>> New York, NY 10027 >>> >>> Phone: 212 678-8162 >>> >>> Fax: 212 678-8233 >>> >>> E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* >>> >>> Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> 525 W120th St. >> New York, NY 10027 >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu >> Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/881C1734-26A6-4AA5-ABE3-DC902529F314%40cmu.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT630BDdt2wCHi%2BJXmj4GGc3Pw7_GnGr-52aHdZHg%2BPk5x%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Peter Gordon, Associate Professor Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 Teachers College, Columbia University 1152 Thorndike Hall 525 W120th St. New York, NY 10027 Phone: 212 678-8162 Fax: 212 678-8233 E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. 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URL: From roeper at linguist.umass.edu Mon Jun 9 19:06:17 2014 From: roeper at linguist.umass.edu (Tom Roeper) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:06:17 -0400 Subject: Acquisition course In-Reply-To: <27643_1402335760_5395F210_27643_9486_1_01c2c89be4086df2824f1cae44be9c87@localhost> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alice O'Brien Date: Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:59 PM Subject: RE: LINGUIST 411 SMR 14 TIME LINE-FYI & need inst compl form To: Tom Roeper Tom, Students from Europe can register on the CPE website. http://www.umassulearn.net/ Students from out of state should review this http://www.umassulearn.net/online-learning University of Massachusetts Amherst (Continuing & Professional Education) is unable to accept new students residing in: - Alabama - Arkansas - Kansas Here Information TECHNIAL REQUIREMENTS : http://www.umassonline.net/technical-support-and-requirements Alice O On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Natasha Ringblom < natasha.ringblom at slav.su.se> wrote: > Dear Tom - > I would love to take part in your acquisition course in August. > Please let me know what I should do in order to apply. > > Best, > Natasha Ringblom > Stockholm university > -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. 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URL: From roeper at linguist.umass.edu Mon Jun 9 19:27:33 2014 From: roeper at linguist.umass.edu (Tom Roeper) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:27:33 -0400 Subject: my acquisition course online In-Reply-To: <26913_1402320951_5395B837_26913_19575_1_83A605E5-E570-4A7B-B00E-BE128B98C033@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alliyah--- I have just received confirmation from CPE that students from Europe can enroll in the course (although, as you said, some from Arkansas, Alabama... cannot) Hope this works--- Tom On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Aliyah MORGENSTERN < aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Tom, > I'm not sure this relates to your specific course, but it looks like it > will be only possible for Americans living in the States (excluding certain > States actually Alabama, Kansas and Arkansas, poor souls), so a lot of us > in this list might not have access. > http://www.umassulearn.net/online-learning > I would have been interested in having some graduate students register but > they live in … Paris. > Best, > Aliyah Morgenstern > Professor of Linguistics > Sorbonne Nouvelle University > > Le 9 juin 2014 à 15:07, Tom Roeper a écrit : > > Dear Everyone--- > > My undergraduage course on Language Acquisition will be > offered online through the UMass dept of LIngjuistics and > the Center http://www.umassulearn.net/classes/search. > It will be in August 2014. > The class is based on videos of my course which cover > the experimental work on recursion, long-distance movement, > quantification, parameter-setting and many of the experiments > carried out at UMass and the Language Acquisition Research > Center here which has participants from Smith and L2, ComDis > and other depts. > A number of graduate students have taken the course as > well. > Please let any interested students know There are still openings and if > you or any students are > interested, they should sign up. If they would like further information, > I would be happy to correspond with them or any of you. > > Tom Roeper > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSnRbYrks3UL%2BVKvpxqao7sUK7T4gKq19eRnUUY8cjcv-A%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/83A605E5-E570-4A7B-B00E-BE128B98C033%40gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSk0Y%3DRLd5XZaRJ3HmOfbC-qsnHJN0SHd_krKKeeyOk6Hw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 21:31:31 2014 From: aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com (Aliyah MORGENSTERN) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:31:31 +0200 Subject: my acquisition course online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you Tom, I will tell them! That's great, best, Aliyah Le 9 juin 2014 à 21:27, Tom Roeper a écrit : > Alliyah--- > > I have just received confirmation from CPE that students from > Europe can enroll in the course (although, as you said, some > from Arkansas, Alabama... cannot) > > Hope this works--- > > Tom > > > On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Aliyah MORGENSTERN wrote: > Dear Tom, > I'm not sure this relates to your specific course, but it looks like it will be only possible for Americans living in the States (excluding certain States actually Alabama, Kansas and Arkansas, poor souls), so a lot of us in this list might not have access. > http://www.umassulearn.net/online-learning > I would have been interested in having some graduate students register but they live in ... Paris. > Best, > Aliyah Morgenstern > Professor of Linguistics > Sorbonne Nouvelle University > > Le 9 juin 2014 à 15:07, Tom Roeper a écrit : > >> Dear Everyone--- >> >> My undergraduage course on Language Acquisition will be >> offered online through the UMass dept of LIngjuistics and >> the Center http://www.umassulearn.net/classes/search. >> It will be in August 2014. >> The class is based on videos of my course which cover >> the experimental work on recursion, long-distance movement, >> quantification, parameter-setting and many of the experiments >> carried out at UMass and the Language Acquisition Research >> Center here which has participants from Smith and L2, ComDis >> and other depts. >> A number of graduate students have taken the course as >> well. >> Please let any interested students know There are still openings and if you or any students are >> interested, they should sign up. If they would like further information, I would be happy to correspond with them or any of you. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> 413 256 0390 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSnRbYrks3UL%2BVKvpxqao7sUK7T4gKq19eRnUUY8cjcv-A%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/83A605E5-E570-4A7B-B00E-BE128B98C033%40gmail.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSk0Y%3DRLd5XZaRJ3HmOfbC-qsnHJN0SHd_krKKeeyOk6Hw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/82C25506-0B0D-4377-8133-2D96A3EBBAAD%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From p.monaghan at lancaster.ac.uk Tue Jun 10 07:07:46 2014 From: p.monaghan at lancaster.ac.uk (padraic monaghan) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 00:07:46 -0700 Subject: 4 research positions in communicative development at Lancaster University Message-ID: We are looking for three postdoctoral researchers and one research assistant to work on early language and communicative development as part of the new ESRC Centre for Language and Communicative Development. The posts are based at Lancaster University, UK. For details please see: research assistant: http://hr-jobs.lancs.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=A1009 postdoctoral positions: http://hr-jobs.lancs.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=A1010 http://hr-jobs.lancs.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=A1011 http://hr-jobs.lancs.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=A1012 Padraic Monaghan Department of Psychology Lancaster University Lancaster LA1 4YF UK Tel: +44 (0)1524 593813 Fax: +44 (0)1524 593744 http://www.lancs.ac.uk/staff/monaghan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b1f646d4-ba70-4d6d-9c72-e70be055284d%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ktmesseng at gmail.com Tue Jun 10 11:51:50 2014 From: ktmesseng at gmail.com (Katherine Messenger) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 04:51:50 -0700 Subject: PhD Studentship in Psychology of Language and Communication, University of Warwick Message-ID: *PhD Studentship in Psychology of Language and Communication * *Department of Psychology, University of Warwick* The Language and Learning group’s research in the Warwick Psychology Department covers a wide range of topics in psychological studies on language and communication (language acquisition, gesture, bilingual lexical development, visual word recognition, corpus analysis). Please see the Group website < http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/psych/research/language/> for a list of potential supervisors. Please note that Dr. Wonnacott and Dr. Carroll will not be available for supervision. We invite applications for a fully funded PhD Studentship. The three-year studentship is funded by the Psychology Department and is available in the Language and Learning Group in the Department of Psychology at the University of Warwick. Some teaching support duties will be required. Applicants with a background and interest in any area of language and communication, broadly defined, are encouraged to apply. Training in research methods and statistics for psychology is essential. A master's degree is welcome, but is not necessary. We encourage applicants to contact a potential supervisor to discuss possible projects before applying. *Funding Details*: Fees and maintenance at RCUK level. *Length of Award:* 3 years. *Eligibility:* Applications are open to all nationalities. Overseas applicants are welcome to apply but, if successful, will have to pay the difference between the Home/EU and Overseas Fees. *Application Details*: Applicants should send a CV (including two academic references), a transcript (or other lists) of grades, and a research proposal to . For further information please contact Professor S Kita on S.Kita at warwick.ac.uk or your potential supervisor. *Deadline: 27 June 2014* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/bdfa2f6d-1d81-4487-a422-12a9f0bb5a9f%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crojas at unam.mx Tue Jun 10 16:27:22 2014 From: crojas at unam.mx (Cecilia Rojas Nieto) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:27:22 -0500 Subject: Second call for papers DIAL-2014 Message-ID: Dear Info-CHILDES, The Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, (UNAM) though the Institute of Research in Phylology and the Graduate Program in Linguistics opens a call for papers for the Individual Differences in Language Acquisition Meeting (DIAL-2014) to be held in Mexico City from October 9-10, 2014. (http://www.iifilologicas.unam.mx/dial-2014/) Deadline for the submission of abstracts is approaching: Papers are welcome in Spanish and English. All proposals for either oral communications or posters must relate to the conference theme Individual Differences, as seen from different perspectives: early language acquisition, child bilingual development, language development in atypical populations, input and usage, processing, among others. Deadline for the submission of abstracts: July 5th, 2014. Paper notification of acceptance: August 10th2014. Venue: Institute of Research in Phylology (Instituto de Investigaciones Filológicas) Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México (UNAM), in Mexico City Best regards, Cecilia Rojas-Nieto (for the Organizing committee) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CB93C561-5B77-4E12-9D2E-D7248768581F%40unam.mx. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsantelmann66 at gmail.com Tue Jun 10 16:39:56 2014 From: lsantelmann66 at gmail.com (Lynn Santelmann) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:39:56 -0700 Subject: phonological awareness measures In-Reply-To: <6a5624286732400f9665bbad4976b658@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Can you use something from one of the other Scandinavian languages? Illinois Test of Psycholinguistic Abilities (adapted for Swedish - some years ago - it's got some phonological awareness, but just missing segments, if I remember correctly). Since this was originally an English-language test, this might help. http://www.hogrefe.se/sv/Skola/Las--skriv--och-matematikdiagnostik/Individuella-diagnoser/ITPA-3/ There is also a phonological awareness test for Swedish. I know nothing of it other than it's put out by the same people who publish the Swedish version of the ITPA. MiniDUVAN http://www.hogrefe.se/Skola/Las--skriv--och-matematikdiagnostik/Individuella-diagnoser/Mini-DUVAN/ - includes identification of sounds, segmentation/synthesis, manipulation och representation. Aimed at 4-6 year olds. There's a plain DUVAN for school aged children and adults. I suspect there must be something for Norwegian as well, but my pan-Scandinavian searching skills are weak. Lynn Santelmann Associate Professor Applied Linguistics Portland State University On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > I’m wondering if there are any phonological awareness tests that have > been adapted to languages other than the original one, with success in > terms of validity. A group of researchers at the University of Southern > Denmark has developed a comprehensive test of Danish for children between 3 > and 7, and is now norming and validating the measure. Validating the > phonological awareness portion of the measure is particularly challenging, > as we are not aware of a normed and validated measure of phonological > awareness in Danish to use as the criterion variable. One possibility would > be to adapt an existing measure to Danish for this purpose, but it would be > reassuring to know that the test has been previously adapted for other > languages. Alternatively, we would be interested in suggestions of other > procedures for validating such a test in the absence of an established > criterion variable. > > With thanks in advance for any help you can provide. > > > > Philip S. Dale, Professor > > Speech & Hearing Sciences > > University of New Mexico > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/6a5624286732400f9665bbad4976b658%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAM-t%2BDz12K3%3DzwzFvM7EwbxU_66nye04OBnge%3Dq0MJQVKJZPGQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Tue Jun 10 17:10:10 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 17:10:10 +0000 Subject: phonological awareness measures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks so much, Lynn. This may prove very useful. Philip ________________________________ From: info-childes at googlegroups.com on behalf of Lynn Santelmann Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 10:39 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: phonological awareness measures Can you use something from one of the other Scandinavian languages? Illinois Test of Psycholinguistic Abilities (adapted for Swedish - some years ago - it's got some phonological awareness, but just missing segments, if I remember correctly). Since this was originally an English-language test, this might help. http://www.hogrefe.se/sv/Skola/Las--skriv--och-matematikdiagnostik/Individuella-diagnoser/ITPA-3/ There is also a phonological awareness test for Swedish. I know nothing of it other than it's put out by the same people who publish the Swedish version of the ITPA. MiniDUVAN http://www.hogrefe.se/Skola/Las--skriv--och-matematikdiagnostik/Individuella-diagnoser/Mini-DUVAN/ - includes identification of sounds, segmentation/synthesis, manipulation och representation. Aimed at 4-6 year olds. There's a plain DUVAN for school aged children and adults. I suspect there must be something for Norwegian as well, but my pan-Scandinavian searching skills are weak. Lynn Santelmann Associate Professor Applied Linguistics Portland State University On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I'm wondering if there are any phonological awareness tests that have been adapted to languages other than the original one, with success in terms of validity. A group of researchers at the University of Southern Denmark has developed a comprehensive test of Danish for children between 3 and 7, and is now norming and validating the measure. Validating the phonological awareness portion of the measure is particularly challenging, as we are not aware of a normed and validated measure of phonological awareness in Danish to use as the criterion variable. One possibility would be to adapt an existing measure to Danish for this purpose, but it would be reassuring to know that the test has been previously adapted for other languages. Alternatively, we would be interested in suggestions of other procedures for validating such a test in the absence of an established criterion variable. With thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Philip S. Dale, Professor Speech & Hearing Sciences University of New Mexico -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/6a5624286732400f9665bbad4976b658%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAM-t%2BDz12K3%3DzwzFvM7EwbxU_66nye04OBnge%3Dq0MJQVKJZPGQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1402420209763.9354%40unm.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macw at cmu.edu Tue Jun 10 18:47:16 2014 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:47:16 +0200 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Peter, Peter, Thanks for keeping this thread alive. It appears that the relation of chunking to the L2 idiom comprehension issue can be seen as the tip of a fairly fascinating (and sometimes dangerous) iceberg. The danger I am thinking about is the idea that a given population (children, L2, aphasics, Williams Syndrome) relies differentially on chunking. What are my concerns? They arise from a consideration of the multiplicity of the factors involved here: 1. There was a discussion in the 1990s about "the importance of starting small" based on Jeff Elman's simulations stimulated by Elissa Newport's analyses. On a computational level, Rohde and Plaut (1999) reported problems replicating Elman's analyses. On a conceptual level, I was worried that this theory generated the prediction that learners with the smallest working memories would learn language faster. On an observational level, there was the literature from Peters, MacWhinney, Vihman, and others emphasizing the idea that children often picked up large chunks or amalgams which they later subjected to analysis. 2. There is a literature in SLA that emphasizes the role of big chunks. This idea aligns well with the less is more notion in some regards, but it has its own problems. The classic here is Pawley and Snyder (1983) which pointed to the ways that second language learners use frames productively. More recently, Ellis has emphasized the role of chunks in second language learning. It is clear that both L2 and L1 learners use automatized frames such as "I would like to have a ___" . But these stretches can also be analyzed by both L1 and L2 learners. So, is there a fundamental difference here? 3. There are important effects of levels of analysis for phonology. As Marilyn notes, once children have acquired a phonological system, they can use this to analyze words segmentally. Eventually, the rise of phonological awareness and morphological awareness shows how extracted units can break up chunks. Sapir observed this too in his paper on the psychological reality of the phoneme. 4. As Diana Van Lanckner Sidtis and others have shown so clearly, the brain provides right hemisphere storage for formulaic language and for intonational packaging. Lesions to the RH lead to problems with intonation, whereas people with nearly global LH damage may still have some formulas encoded in the RH or perhaps the basal ganglia. However, whether or not this impacts normal populations differentially is unclear. 5. Michael Ullman notes that estrogen supports declarative memory, whereas basal ganglia processes support procedural memory. If we want to associate chunking with proceduralization, then there could be some hormonal basis for sex differences. However, both men and women produce estrogen - probably enough to keep declarative memory functioning. 6. People like Paradis have argued that older learners cannot proceduralize, but Avi Karni has shown that even senior citizens can consolidate procedural memories if they are allowed to take a short nap. In any case, do we want to argue that older L2 learners do more chunking (i.e. proceduralization) or less and for what? 7. A major problem involves the level on which we want to envision chunking occurring. Are we talking only about strings of specific lexical items or would be treat constructions as chunks and would we want to claim that they are differentially impacted for different learner groups? 8. And then there is the issue of the status of compounds and derivational morphology. Are these chunks or analyzed? Can't they be both? 9. It could be that L2 learners use more chunking than L1 learners, given their possibly greater working memory (Halford, Halpern and others), it is imaginable that they can store large pieces. But we also know that they often fail to store word groups as well as L1 learners, perhaps because of their excessive use of analysis during comprehension. For example, they may tend to learn German nouns without linking them tightly to complete nominal phrases including the determiners and adjectives that encode their gender and case. There is a huge SLA literature on this topic. 10. Marilyn Nippold has studied idiom comprehension mostly with older children, and I have only read a few of her many papers, but it is clear that idiom comprehension is not complete during early childhood. As she noted in her posting, this places some limits on how we want to think about young children's ability to just pick up formulaic language automatically. Of course, a lot of this can be influenced by literacy, input, and so on. 11. An then there is the issue of really big chunks such as Homer's memory for the Iliad or the German girl who can give you the sentence before and after any given sentence from Goethe. Does this type of chunking have anything to do with all the other types mentioned above? Glancing across this complex territory, it seems to me that one should be careful about imagining that, in general, L2 learners use more chunking than L1 learners and therefore learn idioms more quickly. Given their possibly greater working memory (Halford, Halpern, and others), it is imaginable that they can store large pieces, but probably these are also analysed. So, when we come to the issue of learning idioms and other frozen forms of the type described by Wray, do we want to think of these as chunks or as non-compositional groupings of independent lexical items? And if we actually get solid data pointing to any population differences, do we then have evidence to attribute this to neurology, as opposed to language support? And do we want to differentiate any of these possible differences in terms of whether the chunking applies to phonology, lexicon, morphology, syntax, speech acts, or conversational patterns? The theories of L1, L2, and language disorders all need to deal with these issues, but in doing so, they will need to break up the concept of "chunking" into the many pieces and dimensions of which it is composed. And they will need richer longitudinal data to study the development of chunking and analysis across all of these linguistic levels and structures in greater detail. -- Brian MacWhinney -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/268B2D6A-560F-48A6-8B9D-40A953ED86C0%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From nippold at uoregon.edu Tue Jun 10 21:59:33 2014 From: nippold at uoregon.edu (Marilyn Nippold) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:59:33 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: <268B2D6A-560F-48A6-8B9D-40A953ED86C0@cmu.edu> Message-ID: Brian, Peter, Phillip, and Keith, Thanks for your comments. This is indeed an interesting discussion... One thing to keep in mind is that all idioms are not alike. Some are more transparent and analyzable than others. The transparent ones generally are easier to understand than the opaque ones. With transparent idioms (e.g., paddle your own canoe, throw to the wolves, take someone under your wing), the non-literal meaning is actually a metaphorical extension of the literal meaning. So understanding the literal meaning actually helps you understand the non-literal meaning. In contrast, other idioms are more opaque (e.g., lead with one's chin, talk through one's hat, vote with one's feet). These are generally more difficult for children, adolescents, and adults to understand because the learner cannot easily perform the internal analysis. The learner then is forced to examine the linguistic context (external analysis) for clues to meaning. Research with English-speaking children and adolescents shows that transparent idioms are easier to understand than opaque, but that context clues can help one to learn/infer the nonliteral meanings. Of course, familiarity can override the effects of opacity. For example, even a 5-year-old will understand an opaque idiom (e.g., "They're pulling up stakes") if it's used frequently in the child's environment in meaningful contexts (people in the neighborhood often move). It might be interesting to run these same experiments with L2 learners of different ages. Maybe someone has already done this. I don't know. But I would predict similar patterns would occur with L2 learners as with L1 learners. All languages have figurative expressions that have to be understood. It's also worth mentioning that opacity is a relative concept, because language is always changing. To illustrate, when the now-opaque expression "lead with one's chin" came into the English language as an idiom, it likely was transparent because it referred to an aggressive boxer who bravely stuck his chin out (literally), taking little care to protect himself from his opponent in the ring. Knowing the original context of this idiom suddenly makes it transparent, and one can appreciate its meaning upon hearing the following comment: "Jeremy (who is not afraid to express his left-wing political views) leads with his chin, even at his aunt's tea party!" Marilyn Nippold -----Original Message----- From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian MacWhinney Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:47 AM To: CHILDES Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners Peter, Peter, Thanks for keeping this thread alive. It appears that the relation of chunking to the L2 idiom comprehension issue can be seen as the tip of a fairly fascinating (and sometimes dangerous) iceberg. The danger I am thinking about is the idea that a given population (children, L2, aphasics, Williams Syndrome) relies differentially on chunking. What are my concerns? They arise from a consideration of the multiplicity of the factors involved here: 1. There was a discussion in the 1990s about "the importance of starting small" based on Jeff Elman's simulations stimulated by Elissa Newport's analyses. On a computational level, Rohde and Plaut (1999) reported problems replicating Elman's analyses. On a conceptual level, I was worried that this theory generated the prediction that learners with the smallest working memories would learn language faster. On an observational level, there was the literature from Peters, MacWhinney, Vihman, and others emphasizing the idea that children often picked up large chunks or amalgams which they later subjected to analysis. 2. There is a literature in SLA that emphasizes the role of big chunks. This idea aligns well with the less is more notion in some regards, but it has its own problems. The classic here is Pawley and Snyder (1983) which pointed to the ways that second language learners use frames productively. More recently, Ellis has emphasized the role of chunks in second language learning. It is clear that both L2 and L1 learners use automatized frames such as "I would like to have a ___" . But these stretches can also be analyzed by both L1 and L2 learners. So, is there a fundamental difference here? 3. There are important effects of levels of analysis for phonology. As Marilyn notes, once children have acquired a phonological system, they can use this to analyze words segmentally. Eventually, the rise of phonological awareness and morphological awareness shows how extracted units can break up chunks. Sapir observed this too in his paper on the psychological reality of the phoneme. 4. As Diana Van Lanckner Sidtis and others have shown so clearly, the brain provides right hemisphere storage for formulaic language and for intonational packaging. Lesions to the RH lead to problems with intonation, whereas people with nearly global LH damage may still have some formulas encoded in the RH or perhaps the basal ganglia. However, whether or not this impacts normal populations differentially is unclear. 5. Michael Ullman notes that estrogen supports declarative memory, whereas basal ganglia processes support procedural memory. If we want to associate chunking with proceduralization, then there could be some hormonal basis for sex differences. However, both men and women produce estrogen - probably enough to keep declarative memory functioning. 6. People like Paradis have argued that older learners cannot proceduralize, but Avi Karni has shown that even senior citizens can consolidate procedural memories if they are allowed to take a short nap. In any case, do we want to argue that older L2 learners do more chunking (i.e. proceduralization) or less and for what? 7. A major problem involves the level on which we want to envision chunking occurring. Are we talking only about strings of specific lexical items or would be treat constructions as chunks and would we want to claim that they are differentially impacted for different learner groups? 8. And then there is the issue of the status of compounds and derivational morphology. Are these chunks or analyzed? Can't they be both? 9. It could be that L2 learners use more chunking than L1 learners, given their possibly greater working memory (Halford, Halpern and others), it is imaginable that they can store large pieces. But we also know that they often fail to store word groups as well as L1 learners, perhaps because of their excessive use of analysis during comprehension. For example, they may tend to learn German nouns without linking them tightly to complete nominal phrases including the determiners and adjectives that encode their gender and case. There is a huge SLA literature on this topic. 10. Marilyn Nippold has studied idiom comprehension mostly with older children, and I have only read a few of her many papers, but it is clear that idiom comprehension is not complete during early childhood. As she noted in her posting, this places some limits on how we want to think about young children's ability to just pick up formulaic language automatically. Of course, a lot of this can be influenced by literacy, input, and so on. 11. An then there is the issue of really big chunks such as Homer's memory for the Iliad or the German girl who can give you the sentence before and after any given sentence from Goethe. Does this type of chunking have anything to do with all the other types mentioned above? Glancing across this complex territory, it seems to me that one should be careful about imagining that, in general, L2 learners use more chunking than L1 learners and therefore learn idioms more quickly. Given their possibly greater working memory (Halford, Halpern, and others), it is imaginable that they can store large pieces, but probably these are also analysed. So, when we come to the issue of learning idioms and other frozen forms of the type described by Wray, do we want to think of these as chunks or as non-compositional groupings of independent lexical items? And if we actually get solid data pointing to any population differences, do we then have evidence to attribute this to neurology, as opposed to language support? And do we want to differentiate any of these possible differences in terms of whether the chunking applies to phonology, lexicon, morphology, syntax, speech acts, or conversational patterns? The theories of L1, L2, and language disorders all need to deal with these issues, but in doing so, they will need to break up the concept of "chunking" into the many pieces and dimensions of which it is composed. And they will need richer longitudinal data to study the development of chunking and analysis across all of these linguistic levels and structures in greater detail. -- Brian MacWhinney -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/268B2D6A-560F-48A6-8B9D-40A95 3ED86C0%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/007501cf84f7%2443ae2af0%24cb0a80d0%24%40uoregon.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de Wed Jun 11 13:32:25 2014 From: tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de (Tom Fritzsche) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:32:25 +0200 Subject: Post-Doc & PhD positions in Potsdam, Germany: Pragmatic information during language acquisition & processing Message-ID: Dear colleagues, attached is the announcement for 1 Post-Doc and up to 2 PhD position within a research project on common ground and contrastive information in children’s and adults’ reference resolution funded by the DFG as part of the Priority Programme "XPrag.de: New Pragmatic Theories based on Experimental Evidence". For more details see the PDF. Best, Tom --- Tom Fritzsche University of Potsdam Department of Linguistics Karl-Liebknecht-Straße 24-25 14476 Potsdam Germany office: 14.140 phone: +49 331 977 2296 fax: +49 331 977 2095 e-mail: tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de web: www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~fritzsche -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAGLQsKdC3nazDXrnWZ2pQuz%3DEj9X6sbq2_%3DAnzaJ5Xwpzyg0Pw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de Wed Jun 11 13:37:24 2014 From: tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de (Tom Fritzsche) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:37:24 +0200 Subject: Post-Doc & PhD positions in Potsdam, Germany: Pragmatic information ... [with attachment] Message-ID: Dear colleagues, attached is the announcement for 1 Post-Doc and up to 2 PhD position within a research project on common ground and contrastive information in children’s and adults’ reference resolution funded by the DFG as part of the Priority Programme "XPrag.de: New Pragmatic Theories based on Experimental Evidence". For more details see the PDF. Best, Tom --- Tom Fritzsche University of Potsdam Department of Linguistics Karl-Liebknecht-Straße 24-25 14476 Potsdam Germany office: 14.140 phone: +49 331 977 2296 fax: +49 331 977 2095 e-mail: tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de web: www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~fritzsche -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAGLQsKefkwKkt-3nVKyDN3Hr4uriN%3DmW4%3DhTS_wrWEh4xp7jUA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Advertisment Positions XPrag Hoehle Wartenburger.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 93931 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danielle.matthews at sheffield.ac.uk Tue Jun 17 10:40:43 2014 From: danielle.matthews at sheffield.ac.uk (Danielle Matthews) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 11:40:43 +0100 Subject: RefNet Workshop on Psychological and Computational Models of Reference Comprehension and Production Message-ID: RefNet Workshop on Psychological and Computational Models of Reference Comprehension and Production Sunday 31 Aug 2014, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh, UK http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/InteractionLab/refnet/ ***New Submission Deadline: Monday 23rd June*** Submissions: Selection of posters and oral presentations will be based on 500-1000 word abstracts including references. Abstracts, in PDF format, should be submitted via the workshop website: http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/InteractionLab/refnet/submission.html. Each abstract will be reviewed anonymously, so please include a title but not authors. Revised versions of accepted abstracts will be posted on the RefNet page. There will be no printed proceedings. Invited speakers: Michael K. Tanenhaus, University of Rochester Kees van Deemter, University of Aberdeen Programme Committee: Ellen Gurman Bard, Holly Branigan, Sarah Brown-Schmidt, Arash Eshghi, Kumiko Fukumura, Simon Garrod, Albert Gatt, Marcus Guhe, Pat Healey, William S. Horton, Julian Hough, Christine Howes, Srinivasan Janarthanam, Emiel Krahmer, Danielle Matthews, Gregory Mills, Paul Piwek, Ehud Reiter, Matthew Stone, Marc Swerts, Roger van Gompel, Kees van Deemter Note: The workshop is collocated with the RefNet summer school Psychological and Computational Models of Language Production (24-31 August, Edinburgh) ( http://homepages.abdn.ac.uk/k.vdeemter/pages/RefNet/events.html), but it will be open to anyone, regardless of whether they take part in the summer school. Both the workshop and the summer school are part of RefNet, a research network funded by the UK's EPSRC. Organisers: Arash Eshghi (eshghi.a at gmail.com), Kumiko Fukumura ( kumiko.fukumura at strath.ac.uk), Srinivasan Janarthanam ( srinivasancj at gmail.com) -- Danielle Matthews Department of Psychology University of Sheffield Sheffield S10 2TP Tel: 00 44 114 222 6548 http://www.shef.ac.uk/psychology/staff/academic/danielle-matthews -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAH4d6uLWBXEK%2BSsZ%3DOT-KnfKqs6D1UuV2J6vEM_dCD7DcSqSSw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caseylw at princeton.edu Tue Jun 17 19:29:45 2014 From: caseylw at princeton.edu (Casey Lew-Williams) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:29:45 -0500 Subject: Lab manager position at Princeton University Message-ID: *Position Summary:* The Department of Psychology at Princeton University is seeking a full-time research specialist (i.e., lab manager/coordinator), under the supervision of Dr. Casey Lew-Williams. The successful candidate will work in the newly formed Princeton Baby Lab, and have frequent contact with co-director Dr. Lauren Emberson. Start date is negotiable, but will ideally be either December 1, 2014 or January 1, 2015. The research specialist will participate in all aspects of projects on language learning in diverse groups of infants and young children, including typically developing children, Spanish/English bilingual children, and children with communication delays or disorders. Primary responsibilities will include: (1) developing stimuli for experiments, (2) testing infants and young children in various language research techniques, (3) coordinating participant recruitment in Princeton, NJ and Trenton, NJ, (4) mentoring undergraduates, and (5) setting up and maintaining operations of the lab through general administrative duties. *Essential qualifications:* - Have a demonstrated interest in cognitive science - Get along well with other people - Have excellent communication skills with young children and families - Be able to write clearly for any audience - Be able to get tasks done efficiently - Be detail-oriented, motivated, creative, organized, and able to work independently. - Bachelor's degree in psychology, linguistics, communication sciences and disorders, or related cognitive science fields. - The final candidate must successfully pass a background check. *Preferred qualifications:* - Experience with eye-tracking methods - Experience with SPSS, R, Excel, or other statistical software - Experience with Photoshop and audio/video editing programs - Fluent Spanish speaker (desired, but by no means required) This is a one-year appointment with the possibility of renewal, pending satisfactory performance and funding availability. Please apply for position number 1400373 at https://jobs.princeton.edu. Include a cover letter describing your research experiences and career goals, CV, and contact information for two references. For more information, please email Casey Lew-Williams (caseylw at princeton.edu). Applications will be reviewed immediately, and review will continue until the hiring process is complete. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAPbgNA1yAsRXn_5r0jv65k6LYga_u9B1MMLA-1exJGp2QTrBeQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carla.contemori at gmail.com Fri Jun 20 20:57:32 2014 From: carla.contemori at gmail.com (carla contemori) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 16:57:32 -0400 Subject: New MA Program in Linguistics and Cognitive Studies Message-ID: Dear colleagues Please find attached information about a new MA Program in Linguistics and Cognitive Studies at the University of Siena (Italy). Thanks, Carla Contemori Ph.D. Postdoctoral research associate Department of Psychology Pennsylvania State University 111 Moore Building University Park, PA 16802 USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJiMJpnTDH1_65O5RDuehXiTKF%3Dzn-oW3xbXE_MUSGwn3WoW3A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: LM39.2014-15.Leaflet.fin (1).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 252906 bytes Desc: not available URL: From huysal9 at gmail.com Mon Jun 23 07:24:49 2014 From: huysal9 at gmail.com (huysal9 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:24:49 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, Is there a software widely used in psycholinguistic research to draw pictures for sentence-picture matching tasks? Besides, I need another software compatible with touch-screen tablet for a comprehension task, and it is supposed to record reaction time and accuracy of the answers. Peace, Huseyin On Thursday, June 5, 2014 6:44:06 PM UTC+3, Nelson, Keith wrote: > > Hi all. I m attaching a JCL paper just out from our lab that reviews lit > and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper > wrote: > >> Hi folks-- >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> "I know a shortcut" >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> a stomache who said" >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> motivated. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN > > wrote: >> >>> Dear Hüseyin, >>> >>> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking >>> that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >>> >>> · (Concerning your question about the location of data >>> collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends >>> totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student >>> (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype words”; >>> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be >>> the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean >>> Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their >>> list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of >>> prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities >>> overlap to the sufficient extent. >>> >>> · One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you >>> assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >>> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >>> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >>> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >>> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >>> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >>> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >>> >>> · Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of >>> the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather >>> than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, *some >>> birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have >>> some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >>> >>> · Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too >>> much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >>> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >>> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >>> >>> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding >>> study. Good luck in all ways. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>>> >>>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >>>> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >>>> >>>> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >>>> language? >>>> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >>>> or more generally figurative language? >>>> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>>> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >>>> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >>>> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>>> perspective.) >>>> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Huseyin >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com . >>> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> 413 256 0390 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/7a794138-640e-48ff-806a-5b6efe4694db%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ktmesseng at gmail.com Mon Jun 23 10:13:52 2014 From: ktmesseng at gmail.com (Katherine Messenger) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 03:13:52 -0700 Subject: Assistant/Associate Professorship in Psychology of Language at University of Warwick Message-ID: The Psychology department at the University of Warwick is seeking to appoint an Assistant or Associate Professor within the Language and Learning Research Group. For further information about the positions, please see: http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AJA204/assistant-professor-71076-064/ http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AJA249/associate-professor-71076-064/ The closing date for applications is 21st July 2014. For further information about the group, please see: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/psych/research/language/ Apologies for cross-postings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cc3ee21a-e1a0-4ddb-9ee5-6349cf9b6ee3%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james_morgan at brown.edu Tue Jun 24 21:42:10 2014 From: james_morgan at brown.edu (Morgan, James) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:42:10 -0400 Subject: Two year visiting Assistant Professor position in Linguistics/Language Processing Message-ID: Please note: the position description does not exclude acquisition! The Brown University Departm ent of Cognitive, Linguistic and Psychological Sciences announces a 2 year Visiting position at the Assistant Professor level in Linguistics/Language Processing at or above the word level, beginning September 1, 2014 or January 1, 2015. This includes syntactic, lexical, semantic, and/or pragmatic (including discourse) processing. Qualifications Expertise at the intersection of theoretical and experimental approaches is expected, and the successful candidate will be able to teach, conduct and supervise experimental research engaging theoretical issues in linguistics and cognitive science of language. Applicants should be able to teach both introductory courses and advanced courses in language processing and psycholinguistics. While not required, ability and willingness to teach an introductory course in syntax is highly desirable. Application Instructions Applications will be considered on a rolling basis, starting July 8, until the position is filled. Curriculum vitae, reprints and preprints of publications, a maximum two-page statement of research and teaching interests, and three letters of reference should be submitted at . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABmr1p8t0Arkm2CZK%2BM8Mih3hwfVNq_1%3Dou%3DH_hp%3D%3D6acpGUWw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.c.levelt at hum.leidenuniv.nl Wed Jun 25 18:21:38 2014 From: c.c.levelt at hum.leidenuniv.nl (c.c.levelt) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 11:21:38 -0700 Subject: Full-time professorship in Second Language Acquisition, Leiden University Message-ID: Leiden University is looking for a full-time professor in Second Language Acquisition. Please check out: http://werkenbij.leidenuniv.nl/vacatures/wetenschappelijke-functies/14-161-full-professorship-in-second-language-acquisition-.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/27201bfc-b5e1-4826-80e9-c37cb20ef4ee%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From huberpak at gmail.com Thu Jun 26 18:55:01 2014 From: huberpak at gmail.com (huberpak at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:55:01 -0700 Subject: English V-schwa alternations in children's speech Message-ID: Hi, I've noticed some interesting 'hypercorrection'-type errors, both in my own kid's speech and in the CHILDES corpora, with English V~schwa alternations. Examples: Edison is [i]llergic to eggs. I don't want a el[o]phant. Does anyone know of previous work on this? Any information, references, observations, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks - Marjorie Marjorie Pak, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer, Program in Linguistics Emory University mgpak at emory.edu www.linguistics.emory.edu www.marjoriepak.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1843c13f-792f-4620-af6e-bc94c6f17a9e%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lise.menn at Colorado.EDU Thu Jun 26 19:08:56 2014 From: lise.menn at Colorado.EDU (Lise Menn) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:08:56 -0600 Subject: English V-schwa alternations in children's speech In-Reply-To: <1843c13f-792f-4620-af6e-bc94c6f17a9e@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: I observed two of them in my older son - have probably mentioned them in print somewhere? - 'thesis' as /ˈθisʌs/ and 'raisins' as /ˈrɛɪzʌnz/, both with very clear low vowels, not schwas, in the second syllable; also, incorrectly undoing the d/t neutralization to flap, he said 'recorder' as /riˈkɔrtr/ at about this time. Lise Menn On Jun 26, 2014, at 12:55 PM, > > wrote: Hi, I've noticed some interesting 'hypercorrection'-type errors, both in my own kid's speech and in the CHILDES corpora, with English V~schwa alternations. Examples: Edison is [i]llergic to eggs. I don't want a el[o]phant. Does anyone know of previous work on this? Any information, references, observations, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks - Marjorie Marjorie Pak, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer, Program in Linguistics Emory University mgpak at emory.edu www.linguistics.emory.edu www.marjoriepak.com Lise Menn Home Office: 303-444-4274 1625 Mariposa Ave Boulder CO 80302 home page: http://spot.colorado.edu/~menn/ Professor Emerita of Linguistics Fellow, Institute of Cognitive Science University of Colorado Fellow, Linguistic Society of America -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/EAD1EC99-17B5-4D29-AFED-C37BC23E9594%40colorado.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From C.C.Levelt at hum.leidenuniv.nl Thu Jun 26 20:38:55 2014 From: C.C.Levelt at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Levelt, C.C.) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 20:38:55 +0000 Subject: English V-schwa alternations in children's speech In-Reply-To: <1843c13f-792f-4620-af6e-bc94c6f17a9e@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Here's a paper on schwas being produced as full vowels in Dutch child language: Levelt, C. (2008). Phonology and phonetics in the development of schwa in Dutch child language. Lingua 118, 9,1344-1361. Claartje On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:55 PM, > > wrote: Hi, I've noticed some interesting 'hypercorrection'-type errors, both in my own kid's speech and in the CHILDES corpora, with English V~schwa alternations. Examples: Edison is [i]llergic to eggs. I don't want a el[o]phant. Does anyone know of previous work on this? Any information, references, observations, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks - Marjorie Marjorie Pak, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer, Program in Linguistics Emory University mgpak at emory.edu www.linguistics.emory.edu www.marjoriepak.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1843c13f-792f-4620-af6e-bc94c6f17a9e%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/A3417BC7-1046-42A7-8F7E-F01AB05E85E1%40hum.leidenuniv.nl. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sonja.eisenbeiss at googlemail.com Sun Jun 29 08:28:02 2014 From: sonja.eisenbeiss at googlemail.com (Sonja Eisenbeiss) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:28:02 -0700 Subject: LECTURER IN PSYCHOLINGUISTICS, (CHILD LANGUAGE DEVELOPMENT), Essex Message-ID: The Department of Language and Linguistics at the University of Essex is seeking to appoint a lecturer with a background in linguistically-informed experimental research in child language development within the Psycholinguistics Research Group. For further information about the positions, please see: http://gs12.globalsuccessor.com/fe/tpl_essex01.asp?newms=jj&id=78361 The closing date for applications is 23 July 2014. For further information about the group, please see: http://psylingx.wordpress.com/ Apologies for cross-postings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/06aa8ac9-6a1f-422d-a90c-c04edd738567%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krohlfing at gmail.com Mon Jun 30 19:44:05 2014 From: krohlfing at gmail.com (Katharina Rohlfing) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:44:05 -0700 Subject: Call for contributions: Panel on The development of iconic gestures (DGfS 2015 in Germany, Leipzig) Message-ID: Dear colleagues, we are soliciting contributions to our panel on "The development of iconic gestures and their role as resources for language acquisition" within the next DGfS (4th-6th March 2015 in Leipzig, Germany). The deadline is August 20th, 2014. Please see the detailed description below. Kind regards, Katharina Rohlfing & Friederike Kern -- PD Dr. Katharina J. Rohlfing Emergentist Semantics, CITEC Bielefeld University Prof. Dr. Friederike Kern Fak. für Linguistik und Literaturwissenschaft Universität Bielefeld, Postfach 10 01 31 33501 Bielefeld friederike.kern at uni-bielefeld.de PD Dr. Katharina J. Rohlfing Emergentist Semantics Group Universität Bielefeld, CITEC 33501 Bielefeld kjr at uni-bielefeld.de The development of iconic gestures as resources in language acquisition The use of gestures as resources for the construction of verbal actions has been a topic of interest in language acquisition for some time. Since pointing gestures are dominantly present in young children as well as in interaction with them, most studies focus on this type of gestures. Several studies look at forms and functions of young children’s pointing gestures, and their connection with cognitive and linguistic abilities. Others show how older children may profit from a specific, task- adapted use of gestures [1], or, how caretakers adapt their gestures with regard to frequency and type to the developmental status of the child [2]. Relatively little known is about the use and development of early iconic gestures and their involvement in language acquisition. Iconic gestures are referred to as “representational” or “symbolic”, and can be used in reference to absent objects or events. An important finding relates to children’s later vocabulary development, which seems to benefit from earlier use of iconic gestures: Children who used iconic gestures earlier in their development, had richer vocabularies in their later development. However, only few studies show when and in what way (i.e. exhibiting what forms) iconic gestures emerge [3]. Furthermore, the different forms that iconic gestures might exhibit have barely been considered in developmental approaches. In addition, it is not clear whether different forms of iconic gestures are linked to different types of verbal actions systematically. Our panel will thus address the following research questions: - Which aspects of objects are focused on, and how are they implemented in gestures (iconic mapping)? - How are the gestures integrated into the grammatical surface (grammatical mapping)? - How do different verbal actions affect the choice and use of iconic gestures (gestural mapping)? - Does the physical foundation and thus bodily involvement of self-experienced events lay grounds for the acquisition and situated use of iconic gestures (embodied learning)? Areas of interest: language acquisition, multimodal communication, pragmatics, semantics References [1] Goldin-Meadow, S., Cook, S. W., & Mitchell, Z. A. Gesturing gives children new ideas about math. Psychological Science, 2009, 20(3), 267-272 [2] Grimminger, A., Rohlfing, K. J. & Stenneken, P. (2010): Do mothers alter their pointing behavior in dependence of children’s lexical development and task-difficulty? Analysis of task- oriented gestural input towards typically developed children and Late Talkers. Gesture 10: 251– 278. [3] Vogt, S. & Schreiber, S. (2006): Förderung von Gesten als Mitauslöser der lautsprachlichen Entwicklung. Theoretische und praktische Überlegungen für die logopädische Arbeit. L.O.G.O.S. Interdiziplinär 14: 179–185. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/49027690-b2bd-43cb-b495-1e70226d6dcc%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkasuya at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 17:03:36 2014 From: hkasuya at gmail.com (hiroko kasuya) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 10:03:36 -0700 Subject: JSLS2014 Call for Participation Message-ID: Call for Participation in the 16th Annual International Conference of The Japanese Society for Language Sciences (JSLS2014) The annual conference of the Japanese Society for Language Sciences will be held from June 28th (Sat) ? June 29th (Sun), 2014 at Bunkyo University, Koshigaya Campus, close to Tokyo. The conference program has been posted on JSLS 2014 Conference website. Pre-registration has already started. The deadline is June 7 (Saturday). For more information, please visit the conference website: http://www.jslsweb.sakura.ne.jp/jsls2014/wiki.cgi?page=JSLS2014English (Please note that the call for papers has closed.) Inquiries may be sent to the conference committee: jsls-conf at googlegroups.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/416a3b73-a201-4fd4-91a8-09531ab813e7%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mblume at pucp.pe Mon Jun 2 18:07:27 2014 From: mblume at pucp.pe (mblume) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 11:07:27 -0700 Subject: Question about data for Colombian Spanish and Lara, G=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=B3mez=2C_G=C3=A1lvez=2C_?=Mesa and Serrat 2011. Message-ID: Dear Collegues: I have been looking at different versions of the MacArthur-Bates Communicative Development Inventories for Spanish. I read in the following article Mar?a Fernanda Lara D?az, ?ngela Mar?a G?mez Fonseca, Diana Marcela G?lvez Boh?rquez, Carol Mesa Guech?, and Elisabet Serrat Sellabona. (2011) Normativizaci?n del inventario del desarrollo comunicativo MacArthur-Bates al espa?ol, Colombia. *Revista Latinoamericana de Psicolog?a*, vol. 43, num. 2, pp. 241-254. that the authors used for the design of the questionnaire a dictionary of lexical frequency of children from Bogot? by analyzing samples of 60 children from 8 to 36 months using CLAN and CHILDES (I am paraphrasing and translating here, but the text appears under "Procedimiento" (Procedure) at the bottom of the left-hand column on p. 245 and includes most of that same paragraph which ends on the upper-most right-hand colum of the same page) Howevwer, I browsed both the Database Manuals for Romance Languages and the browsable databases (both Spanish and Spanish-MOR) and I found transcripts for Mexican, Peninsular, and Venezuelan Spanish but no database fr Colombian Spanish. Could you please let me know if such database exists or existed at some point in CHILDES? Hopefully the authors will read this and let me know if I am misunderstanding something. Thanks Mar?a -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1b944249-256e-4341-8d0a-a2467e0ead37%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From annycastilla at gmail.com Mon Jun 2 21:18:52 2014 From: annycastilla at gmail.com (Anny Castilla-Earls) Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 16:18:52 -0500 Subject: Question about data for Colombian Spanish and Lara, G=?utf-8?Q?=C3=B3mez=2C_G=C3=A1lvez=2C_?=Mesa and Serrat 2011. In-Reply-To: <1b944249-256e-4341-8d0a-a2467e0ead37@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Dear Maria, I can get you in touch with Maria Fernanda. She collected the data for the dictionary of lexical frequency, and analyzed the data using CLAN, I believe. Email me at castilla at fredonia.edu and I can give you more info. Anny > On Jun 2, 2014, at 1:07 PM, mblume wrote: > > Dear Collegues: > > I have been looking at different versions of the MacArthur-Bates Communicative Development Inventories for Spanish. > > I read in the following article > > Mar?a Fernanda Lara D?az, ?ngela Mar?a G?mez Fonseca, Diana Marcela G?lvez Boh?rquez, Carol Mesa Guech?, and Elisabet Serrat Sellabona. (2011) Normativizaci?n del inventario del desarrollo comunicativo MacArthur-Bates al espa?ol, Colombia. Revista Latinoamericana de Psicolog?a, vol. 43, num. 2, pp. 241-254. > > that the authors used for the design of the questionnaire a dictionary of lexical frequency of children from Bogot? by analyzing samples of 60 children from 8 to 36 months using CLAN and CHILDES (I am paraphrasing and translating here, but the text appears under "Procedimiento" (Procedure) at the bottom of the left-hand column on p. 245 and includes most of that same paragraph which ends on the upper-most right-hand colum of the same page) > > Howevwer, I browsed both the Database Manuals for Romance Languages and the browsable databases (both Spanish and Spanish-MOR) and I found transcripts for Mexican, Peninsular, and Venezuelan Spanish but no database fr Colombian Spanish. > > Could you please let me know if such database exists or existed at some point in CHILDES? Hopefully the authors will read this and let me know if I am misunderstanding something. > > Thanks > > Mar?a > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1b944249-256e-4341-8d0a-a2467e0ead37%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2B7FD40C-7245-4AE0-9C71-A68D7B388011%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkasuya at gmail.com Tue Jun 3 08:26:31 2014 From: hkasuya at gmail.com (Hiroko Kasuya) Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 17:26:31 +0900 Subject: JSLS 2014 Call for Participation Message-ID: Call for Participation in the 16th Annual International Conference of The Japanese Society for Language Sciences (JSLS2014) The annual conference of the Japanese Society for Language Sciences will be held from June 28th (Sat) ? June 29th (Sun), 2014 at Bunkyo University, Koshigaya Campus, close to Tokyo. The conference program has been posted on JSLS 2014 Conference website. Pre-registration has already started. The deadline is June 7 (Saturday). For more information, please visit the conference website: http://www.jslsweb.sakura.ne.jp/jsls2014/wiki.cgi?page=JSLS2014English (Please note that the call for papers has closed.) Inquiries may be sent to the conference committee: jsls-conf at googlegroups.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJcy38aEQEfceH5zpqTLUEqG-m5_%2Bvm%3D2795%2BXNQZx3hfV4jmg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From dalep at unm.edu Wed Jun 4 16:44:35 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 16:44:35 +0000 Subject: phonological awareness measures Message-ID: I'm wondering if there are any phonological awareness tests that have been adapted to languages other than the original one, with success in terms of validity. A group of researchers at the University of Southern Denmark has developed a comprehensive test of Danish for children between 3 and 7, and is now norming and validating the measure. Validating the phonological awareness portion of the measure is particularly challenging, as we are not aware of a normed and validated measure of phonological awareness in Danish to use as the criterion variable. One possibility would be to adapt an existing measure to Danish for this purpose, but it would be reassuring to know that the test has been previously adapted for other languages. Alternatively, we would be interested in suggestions of other procedures for validating such a test in the absence of an established criterion variable. With thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Philip S. Dale, Professor Speech & Hearing Sciences University of New Mexico -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/6a5624286732400f9665bbad4976b658%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mehozcan20 at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 09:09:00 2014 From: mehozcan20 at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Mehmet_=C3=96ZCAN?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 02:09:00 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: <42bbb759-e650-49c0-a362-2123ba4bdf72@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Dear H?seyin, (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) ? (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions? containing prototypical elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first > question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the > point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language > development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) > experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature > in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by > Gibbs and Colston in > http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions > are as follows: > > - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child > language? > - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or > more generally figurative language? > - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms > have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or > advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another > perspective.) > - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child > directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > Huseyin > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roeper at linguist.umass.edu Thu Jun 5 13:44:40 2014 From: roeper at linguist.umass.edu (Tom Roeper) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 09:44:40 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: <5187_1401959344_539033B0_5187_311_1_cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Hi folks-- just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: "I know a shortcut" "well, I know a shorter cut" and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it relates to complex sentences. Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent to children's comprehension of them. A child with a stomache who said" "there's a fireengine in my stomach" or a child with a stuffed nose who said: "there's paint in my nose". Deviations from compositionality can still be logically motivated. Tom Roeper On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN wrote: > Dear H?seyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that > other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > ? (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) > The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the > location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you > mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; > watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the > first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean > Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their > list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of > prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities > overlap to the sufficient extent. > > ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you > assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of > compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic > unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the > whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it > comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality > Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of > pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of > the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather > than the expressions? containing prototypical elements. You know, *some > birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have > some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. > > ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too > much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal > observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions > or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding > study. Good luck in all ways. > > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >> >> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the >> point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language >> development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) >> experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature >> in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by >> Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >> >> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >> language? >> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or >> more generally figurative language? >> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms >> have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or >> advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >> perspective.) >> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >> >> Thanks, >> Huseyin >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Thu Jun 5 14:19:28 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:19:28 +0000 Subject: list of common words Message-ID: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htagerf at bu.edu Thu Jun 5 14:25:23 2014 From: htagerf at bu.edu (Tager-Flusberg, Helen B) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:25:23 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From erikachoff at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 14:29:38 2014 From: erikachoff at gmail.com (Erika Hoff) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 10:29:38 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nratner at umd.edu Thu Jun 5 14:45:31 2014 From: nratner at umd.edu (Nan Bernstein Ratner) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:45:31 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: lexrare.txt URL: From dalep at unm.edu Thu Jun 5 15:06:13 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:06:13 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96@OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU> Message-ID: Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nratner at umd.edu Thu Jun 5 15:08:17 2014 From: nratner at umd.edu (Nan Bernstein Ratner) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:08:17 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:21:52 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:21:52 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B@OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU> Message-ID: You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed > speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then > additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal > input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Thu Jun 5 15:23:40 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:23:40 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Could you spell those out? From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirg?rd Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:28:48 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:28:48 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > Could you spell those out? > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirg?rd > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? > > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : > > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed > speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then > additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal > input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nratner at umd.edu Thu Jun 5 15:29:40 2014 From: nratner at umd.edu (Nan Bernstein Ratner) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:29:40 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I am attaching Beals and Tabors, which explains the file and how it was constructed; since it was to look at rare words as defined by speech children are more likely to hear, the list was derived by using a list that Chall and Dale composed, based on 4th grade vocabulary. Like Philip, I have no idea what those other lists or resources are, but if you want to look at CDS, this list has a reasonable pedigree. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:24 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Could you spell those out? From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirg?rd Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4AE142%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Beals & Tabors.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 398399 bytes Desc: Beals & Tabors.pdf URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:30:18 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:30:18 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: However, I don't really know what variety of English you're after, nor genre or adult-adult or adult-child. /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:28 GMT+02:00 Hedvig Skirg?rd : > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > > /Hedvig > > > 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > > Could you spell those out? >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: >> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirg?rd >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM >> >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: list of common words >> >> >> >> You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? >> >> >> /Hedvig >> >> >> >> 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : >> >> We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed >> speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then >> additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal >> input that consisted of relatively rare words. >> >> >> >> Nan >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: >> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM >> >> >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* RE: list of common words >> >> >> >> Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to >> determine frequencies? >> >> Philip >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ >> mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On >> Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* RE: list of common words >> >> >> >> I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by >> Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few >> studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are >> others; this is the one we have used. >> >> >> >> Best to all, >> >> Nan >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ >> mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On >> Behalf Of *Erika Hoff >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: list of common words >> >> >> >> Me too. >> >> >> >> Erika >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B >> wrote: >> >> Philip, >> >> I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? >> >> >> >> thanks! >> >> Helen >> >> _________________________________ >> >> Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. >> >> Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University >> >> Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM >> >> >> >> Address >> >> Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences >> >> Center for Autism Research Excellence >> >> 100 Cummington Mall >> >> Boston MA 02215 >> >> T: 617-358-5919 >> >> htagerf at bu.edu >> >> www.bu.edu/autism >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: >> >> >> >> I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most >> common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use >> of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there >> software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. >> rare wrods? Many thanks. >> >> Philip Dale >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Erika Hoff, Professor >> >> Department of Psychology >> >> Florida Atlantic University >> >> 3200 College Ave. >> >> Davie, FL 33314 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU >> >> . >> >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1bnw-3eAg3SFzEnk9NXCktb1087duC1CavJZZhNDKwXA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shelley.brundage at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:30:31 2014 From: shelley.brundage at gmail.com (Shelley Brundage) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 11:30:31 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96@OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU> Message-ID: ho Folks I was remembering something by Thorndike and Lorge. Here is some info from Wikipedia regarding 'traditional lists of word frequency": Traditional lists[edit ]The Teachers Word Book of 30,000 words (Thorndike and Lorge, 1944) The TWB contains 30,000 lemmas or ~13,000 word families (Goulden, Nation and Read, 1990). A corpus of 18,000,000 written words was hand analysed. The size of its inputted corpus increased its usefulness, but its age and language change reduced its applicability (Nation 1997 ). The General Service List (West, 1953) The GSL contains 2,000 headwords divided into two sets of 1,000 words. A corpus of 5,000,000 written words was analysed in the 1940s. Rate of occurrence (%) for different meanings and parts of speech of the headword are provided, while it was also a careful application of the various criteria other than frequency and range. Thus, despite its age, some errors, and its solely written base, it is still an excellent database (word frequency, frequency of meanings, reduction of noise) (Nation 1997 ). The American Heritage Word Frequency Book (Carroll, Davies and Richman, 1971) A corpus of 5,000,000 running words, from written texts used in United States schools (various grades, various subject areas). Its value is in its focus on school teaching materials, and its tagging of words, namely the frequency of each word in each of the school grade levels and in each of the subject areas (Nation 1997 ). The Brown (Francis and Kucera, 1982) LOB and related corpora These now contain 1,000,000 words from a written corpora representing different dialects of English. These sources are used to produce frequency lists (Nation 1997 ). On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Nan Bernstein Ratner wrote: > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Shelley B. Brundage, Ph.D., CCC-S Associate Professor and Graduate Program Director ASHA Fellow Board Recognized Specialist and Mentor-Fluency Disorders Speech and Hearing Science department George Washington University 2115 G St NW Suite 201 Washington, D.C. 20052 (202) 994-5008 office (202 994-2205 lab (202) 994-2589 fax -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAH2afvL%2B5CYhxzLooxiVS4ut9uuBg9EeS2Lh%3DVoSjEJ6C%2BK41A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:33:15 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:33:15 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: COCA and BNC are both based on the Brown corpus structure, and much larger. /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:30 GMT+02:00 Shelley Brundage : > ho Folks > I was remembering something by Thorndike and Lorge. Here is some info > from Wikipedia regarding 'traditional lists of word frequency": > > Traditional lists[edit > > ] The Teachers Word Book of 30,000 words (Thorndike and Lorge, 1944) > > The TWB contains 30,000 lemmas or ~13,000 word families (Goulden, Nation > and Read, 1990). A corpus of 18,000,000 written words was hand analysed. > The size of its inputted corpus increased its usefulness, but its age and > language change reduced its applicability (Nation 1997 > ). > The General Service List > (West, 1953) > > The GSL contains 2,000 headwords divided into two sets of 1,000 words. A > corpus of 5,000,000 written words was analysed in the 1940s. Rate of > occurrence (%) for different meanings and parts of speech of the headword > are provided, while it was also a careful application of the various > criteria other than frequency and range. Thus, despite its age, some > errors, and its solely written base, it is still an excellent database > (word frequency, frequency of meanings, reduction of noise) (Nation 1997 > ). > The American Heritage Word Frequency Book (Carroll, Davies and Richman, > 1971) > > A corpus of 5,000,000 running words, from written texts used in United > States schools (various grades, various subject areas). Its value is in its > focus on school teaching materials, and its tagging of words, namely the > frequency of each word in each of the school grade levels and in each of > the subject areas (Nation 1997 > ). > The Brown (Francis and Kucera, 1982) LOB and related corpora > > These now contain 1,000,000 words from a written corpora representing > different dialects of English. These sources are used to produce frequency > lists (Nation 1997 > ). > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Nan Bernstein Ratner > wrote: > >> I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by >> Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few >> studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are >> others; this is the one we have used. >> >> >> >> Best to all, >> >> Nan >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: >> info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Erika Hoff >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: list of common words >> >> >> >> Me too. >> >> >> >> Erika >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B >> wrote: >> >> Philip, >> >> I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? >> >> >> >> thanks! >> >> Helen >> >> _________________________________ >> >> Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. >> >> Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University >> >> Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM >> >> >> >> Address >> >> Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences >> >> Center for Autism Research Excellence >> >> 100 Cummington Mall >> >> Boston MA 02215 >> >> T: 617-358-5919 >> >> htagerf at bu.edu >> >> www.bu.edu/autism >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: >> >> >> >> I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most >> common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use >> of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there >> software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. >> rare wrods? Many thanks. >> >> Philip Dale >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Erika Hoff, Professor >> >> Department of Psychology >> >> Florida Atlantic University >> >> 3200 College Ave. >> >> Davie, FL 33314 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU >> >> . >> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Shelley B. Brundage, Ph.D., CCC-S > Associate Professor and Graduate Program Director > ASHA Fellow > Board Recognized Specialist and Mentor-Fluency Disorders > Speech and Hearing Science department > George Washington University > 2115 G St NW Suite 201 > Washington, D.C. 20052 > (202) 994-5008 office > (202 994-2205 lab > (202) 994-2589 fax > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAH2afvL%2B5CYhxzLooxiVS4ut9uuBg9EeS2Lh%3DVoSjEJ6C%2BK41A%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1bWEAQ9nZXiAKaEZRcGga7b-hTQNdW7m66gq2sXE190A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Thu Jun 5 15:42:35 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:42:35 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks so much. I should have been clearer at the outset. In this case, I?m interested in adult-adult speech (for adult-child speech, as in Goodman, Dale & Li, 2008, we used a FREQ analysis of CHILDES corpora). COCA looks the best, as it actually has word frequencies. On first examination, BNC is just the corpora, and you?d have to do the analyses yourself. But I might be wrong here. Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirg?rd Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:29 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale >: Could you spell those out? From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirg?rd Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to determine frequencies? Philip From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: RE: list of common words I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are others; this is the one we have used. Best to all, Nan From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Me too. Erika On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: Philip, I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? thanks! Helen _________________________________ Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM Address Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences Center for Autism Research Excellence 100 Cummington Mall Boston MA 02215 T: 617-358-5919 htagerf at bu.edu www.bu.edu/autism On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Erika Hoff, Professor Department of Psychology Florida Atlantic University 3200 College Ave. Davie, FL 33314 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k1n at psu.edu Thu Jun 5 15:44:02 2014 From: k1n at psu.edu (Keith Nelson) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 11:44:02 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all. I m attaching a JCL paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > "I know a shortcut" > "well, I know a shorter cut" > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > a stomache who said" > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN wrote: > >> Dear H?seyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that >> other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> ? (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) >> The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the >> location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you >> mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; >> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be >> the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean >> Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their >> list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of >> prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities >> overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you >> assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of >> the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather >> than the expressions? containing prototypical elements. You know, *some >> birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have >> some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >> >> ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too >> much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding >> study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>> >>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >>> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >>> >>> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >>> language? >>> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or >>> more generally figurative language? >>> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms >>> have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or >>> advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>> perspective.) >>> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Huseyin >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT630Tf5z-aQMSv3N__y13_GzQm3Od0s_DCsPbEr6zT6xmhw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Idiom_JSLHR_2014.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 198565 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 15:48:59 2014 From: hedvig.skirgard at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Hedvig_Skirg=C3=A5rd?=) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 17:48:59 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: You should use COCA or BNC depending on whether you're looking at a American or British variety There are different ways of counting frequency, and you might not be interested in all the material in COCA/BNC, so be aware of the proportions of genres, speakers etc. If you want to learn more about frequencies in the BNC, go here: http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/using/index.xml?ID=other#freq /Hedvig 2014-06-05 17:42 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > Thanks so much. I should have been clearer at the outset. In this case, > I?m interested in adult-adult speech (for adult-child speech, as in > Goodman, Dale & Li, 2008, we used a FREQ analysis of CHILDES corpora). > > COCA looks the best, as it actually has word frequencies. On first > examination, BNC is just the corpora, and you?d have to do the analyses > yourself. But I might be wrong here. > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirg?rd > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:29 AM > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > > Could you spell those out? > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirg?rd > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? > > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : > > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed > speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then > additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal > input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1kNf_ZYcFRu5%2BVUoBkiaHtRgasUfyo7x0hfsdeMdmfDg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From diane.lillomartin at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 16:04:36 2014 From: diane.lillomartin at gmail.com (Diane Lillo-Martin) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 12:04:36 -0400 Subject: Repetitions in child production Message-ID: Dear all, I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for various types of analyses, especially MLU. In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or with some intervening talk. I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the command is set to exclude them. If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do you treat such repetitions? Many thanks in advance, Diane ---------- Diane Lillo-Martin University of Connecticut -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From natalia.rakhlin at yale.edu Thu Jun 5 16:16:29 2014 From: natalia.rakhlin at yale.edu (Rakhlin, Natalia) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:16:29 +0000 Subject: Repetitions in child production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Diane, Repetitions and other types of "mazes" (false starts, interjections, self-corrections) are typically not included as countable utterance for MLU calculation, although it may be included in some types of analyses depending on your goal. There are some pretty good papers that describe principled ways of chunking spoken language into analyzable units. Here is one (but there may be better ones - if you would like, I can take a look and send you more references): Foster, P., Tonkyn, A., & Wigglesworth (2000). Measuring Spoken Language: a Unit for All Reasons, Applied Linguistics, 21/3, 354-375. Best, Natasha Natalia Rakhlin, Ph.D. Child Study Center Yale University 230 South Frontage Rd New Haven CT 06519-1124 On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin wrote: Dear all, I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for various types of analyses, especially MLU. In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or with some intervening talk. I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the command is set to exclude them. If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do you treat such repetitions? Many thanks in advance, Diane ---------- Diane Lillo-Martin University of Connecticut -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/D66D920F-6766-4EA0-AFFF-E6FEFD4EA771%40yale.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Roberta at udel.edu Thu Jun 5 17:56:55 2014 From: Roberta at udel.edu (Roberta Golinkoff) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 13:56:55 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Masterson, J., Druks, J., & Gallienne, D. (2008). Object and action picture naming in 3- to 5-year-old children. *Journal of Child Language, 35*, 373-402. I have found the above useful for their word lists. Best, Roberta Golinkoff On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, Ph. D. Unidel H. Rodney Sharp Professor School of Education and Departments of Psychology and Linguistics and Cognitive Science University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716 Office: 302-831-1634; Fax: 302-831-4110 Web page: http://udel.edu/~roberta/ PI on Institute of Education Sciences Postdoctoral Training Grant The late Mary Dunn said, "Life is the time we have to learn." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAFWLa7%2BHH%3DBzKA5SMRmDH%3DUO_%2BmB1_pDWaR610GH9uMoWeHx5Q%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walesgin at gmail.com Thu Jun 5 18:24:29 2014 From: walesgin at gmail.com (walesgin) Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:24:29 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: I asked my colleague Hans Stadthagen-Gonzalez about this, and he replied with the following, which may be of some help: I don?t know of any list of 3000 words per se, but there are several word frequency corpora that could easily be used for this. Out of the top of my head, CELEX or the British National Corpus (BNC) are widely used and each has a very large sample but are both for British English. A good alternative for American English is Brysbaert?s SubtlexUS, which is based on movie subtitles and has been shown to explain a large portion of variance in word recognition (in other words, it?s a good sample). You can find more info here:expsy.ugent.be/subtlexus/ If you need frequency counts for particular age groups, there?s the Educator?s Word Frequency Guide, which is stratified by school grade and based on reading materials from Kindergarten through 12+ grade. Going back to the question, I would not frame it in terms of 3K words and whatever is not on the list is considered ?rare?, but in terms of a cutoff frequency below which words are considered infrequent. The cutoff would be somewhat arbitrary and dependent on the purpose of the study (but there is literature out there discussing this issue). Best, V. C. Mueller Gathercole Professor of Linguistics Coordinator PhD Program Florida International University http://vcmuellergathercole.weebly.com/index.html *** SPECIAL OFFER to launch new books *Issues in the Assessment of Bilinguals* and *Solutions for the Assessment of Bilinguals*, edited by V C Mueller Gathercole and published by Multilingual Matters: 30% off: http://www.channelviewpublications.com/specialoffers.asp? [TOC at: http://vcmuellergathercole.weebly.com/selected-publications-books.html] Latest news from FIU's Linguistics Program: http://linguisticshotnews.weebly.com Information on FIU's recent Barbara Gordon Lecture and Linguistics Festival, Mar. 6 & 7: http://linguisticshotnews.weebly.com On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > Thanks so much. I should have been clearer at the outset. In this case, > I?m interested in adult-adult speech (for adult-child speech, as in > Goodman, Dale & Li, 2008, we used a FREQ analysis of CHILDES corpora). > > COCA looks the best, as it actually has word frequencies. On first > examination, BNC is just the corpora, and you?d have to do the analyses > yourself. But I might be wrong here. > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirg?rd > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:29 AM > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale : > > Could you spell those out? > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Hedvig Skirg?rd > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or BNC? > > > /Hedvig > > > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner : > > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our child-addressed > speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), and then > additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of maternal/paternal > input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Philip Dale > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > > Philip > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Nan Bernstein Ratner > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* RE: list of common words > > > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > > > Best to all, > > Nan > > > > > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ] *On > Behalf Of *Erika Hoff > *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: list of common words > > > > Me too. > > > > Erika > > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B > wrote: > > Philip, > > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful replies? > > > > thanks! > > Helen > > _________________________________ > > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > > > Address > > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > > Center for Autism Research Excellence > > 100 Cummington Mall > > Boston MA 02215 > > T: 617-358-5919 > > htagerf at bu.edu > > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Erika Hoff, Professor > > Department of Psychology > > Florida Atlantic University > > 3200 College Ave. > > Davie, FL 33314 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/7a32d2a6bb8e4d36b57af674b0308e37%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAOr3bM6bdBXDiuG4QbAKURiZjW-oJVH2cKUM5hVe7WBNZOefjg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macw at cmu.edu Fri Jun 6 07:32:32 2014 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:32:32 +0200 Subject: Repetitions in child production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Diane, As noted by Natasha Rakhlin, repetitions are typically excluded from MLU. This is done automatically and by default in the CLAN MLU program, using the marking of repetitions with the [/] and [//] symbols. There is also a program called REPEAT that can add these marks if they are not present, but it is safer to do this carefully when transcribing. -- Brian MacWhinney On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin wrote: > Dear all, > I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for various types of analyses, especially MLU. > > In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or with some intervening talk. > > I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the command is set to exclude them. > > If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do you treat such repetitions? > > Many thanks in advance, > Diane > > ---------- > Diane Lillo-Martin > University of Connecticut > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/FB66A613-71C6-4351-B668-D5E06DAE9DF0%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ngoni.chipere at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 08:54:16 2014 From: ngoni.chipere at gmail.com (Ngoni Chipere) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 04:54:16 -0400 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: You might want to have a look at Paul Meara's p_lex program, dowloadable here: http://www.lognostics.co.uk/tools/index.htm and explained here: http://www.ameprc.mq.edu.au/docs/prospect_journal/volume_16_no_3/Prospect_16,3_article_1.pdf regards Ngoni On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CADSiM9BbmVxpUKaqNS8VTpWERzWdxp-RGcVY%2BuU978_AL1pFXw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christophe.dossantos at univ-tours.fr Fri Jun 6 12:17:33 2014 From: christophe.dossantos at univ-tours.fr (Christophe dos Santos) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 14:17:33 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If you look for adult-adult oral language frequencies of American English, you may want to have a look to SUBTL database. http://subtlexus.lexique.org/ Best, Christophe dos Santos Universit? Fran?ois-Rabelais, Tours 2014-06-06 10:54 GMT+02:00 Ngoni Chipere : > You might want to have a look at Paul Meara's p_lex program, dowloadable > here: > > http://www.lognostics.co.uk/tools/index.htm > > and explained here: > > > http://www.ameprc.mq.edu.au/docs/prospect_journal/volume_16_no_3/Prospect_16,3_article_1.pdf > > regards > > Ngoni > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > >> I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most >> common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use >> of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there >> software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. >> rare wrods? Many thanks. >> >> Philip Dale >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CADSiM9BbmVxpUKaqNS8VTpWERzWdxp-RGcVY%2BuU978_AL1pFXw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAGJJ4k%2B%3DVN6mNfA5JkEsPv8zk7146%3DDJAHVT30pLn4PARN1ioA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k1n at psu.edu Fri Jun 6 13:34:51 2014 From: k1n at psu.edu (Keith Nelson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:34:51 -0400 Subject: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language Message-ID: HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464.* ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Keith Nelson Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > "I know a shortcut" > "well, I know a shorter cut" > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > a stomache who said" > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN wrote: > >> Dear H?seyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that >> other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> ? (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) >> The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the >> location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you >> mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; >> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be >> the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean >> Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their >> list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of >> prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities >> overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you >> assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of >> the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather >> than the expressions? containing prototypical elements. You know, *some >> birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have >> some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >> >> ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too >> much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding >> study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>> >>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >>> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >>> >>> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >>> language? >>> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or >>> more generally figurative language? >>> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms >>> have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or >>> advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>> perspective.) >>> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Huseyin >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Idiom_JSLHR_2014.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 198565 bytes Desc: not available URL: From brunilda at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 13:39:05 2014 From: brunilda at gmail.com (Bruno Estigarribia) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:39:05 -0400 Subject: Repetitions in child production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, the issue is whether you want to err on the side of overestimating MLU (by excluding repetitions) or underestimating it (by including them). Part of the problem is that not all repetitions have the same status, or the same origin. Treating immediate repetitions differently from non-immediate repetitions is somewhat arbitrary. Non-immediate and immediate repetitions can both be a sign of perseveration, for example. Then, how do you want to treat perseverative utterances? If perseveration is a hallmark of the child's language, then what does it mean to calculate MLU excluding repetitions? Are we calculating an upper bound on the MLU instead of the actual average? Is this MLU reflective of child's competence or just artificial? You either code your transcript in a way that differentiates repetitions that should not be counted (e.g. clarification repeats) from those that should be (e.g. perhaps perseveration) or... I don't know :-) Maybe one can calculate several MLUs with random exclusions of sentences and you can get a confidence interval for it. But this would be a poor substitute for making individual decisions about repeated utterances. Note finally that repetitions are treated completely differently in the calculation of type-token ratios. In that measure, keeping repeats is crucial. Perseverative or repetitous language brings TTRs down... are we equally concerned? On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:32 AM, Brian MacWhinney wrote: > Dear Diane, > As noted by Natasha Rakhlin, repetitions are typically excluded from > MLU. This is done automatically and by default in the CLAN MLU program, > using the marking of repetitions with the [/] and [//] > symbols. There is also a program called REPEAT that can add these marks if > they are not present, but it is safer to do this carefully when > transcribing. > > ? Brian MacWhinney > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin < > diane.lillomartin at gmail.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for > various types of analyses, especially MLU. > > In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, > such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the > ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or > with some intervening talk. > > I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to > the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in > the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the > command is set to exclude them. > > If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do > you treat such repetitions? > > Many thanks in advance, > Diane > > ---------- > Diane Lillo-Martin > University of Connecticut > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/FB66A613-71C6-4351-B668-D5E06DAE9DF0%40cmu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAMWGojnux3b-FD15dNYCjcm%3DpBPvCSbb-FTF4m6GONOvqmBbaQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brunilda at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 13:54:58 2014 From: brunilda at gmail.com (Bruno Estigarribia) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 09:54:58 -0400 Subject: Repetitions in child production In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One correction. Excluding repetitions could underestimate MLU if repetitions are long. This is likely in the case of echolalia, somewhat less likely in the general case, presumably, since the longer a fragment, the less likely it is to be repeated exactly. On Jun 6, 2014 9:39 AM, "Bruno Estigarribia" wrote: > Well, the issue is whether you want to err on the side of overestimating > MLU (by excluding repetitions) or underestimating it (by including them). > Part of the problem is that not all repetitions have the same status, or > the same origin. Treating immediate repetitions differently from > non-immediate repetitions is somewhat arbitrary. Non-immediate and > immediate repetitions can both be a sign of perseveration, for example. > Then, how do you want to treat perseverative utterances? If perseveration > is a hallmark of the child's language, then what does it mean to calculate > MLU excluding repetitions? Are we calculating an upper bound on the MLU > instead of the actual average? Is this MLU reflective of child's competence > or just artificial? > You either code your transcript in a way that differentiates repetitions > that should not be counted (e.g. clarification repeats) from those that > should be (e.g. perhaps perseveration) or... I don't know :-) Maybe one can > calculate several MLUs with random exclusions of sentences and you can get > a confidence interval for it. But this would be a poor substitute for > making individual decisions about repeated utterances. > Note finally that repetitions are treated completely differently in the > calculation of type-token ratios. In that measure, keeping repeats is > crucial. Perseverative or repetitous language brings TTRs down... are we > equally concerned? > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 3:32 AM, Brian MacWhinney wrote: > >> Dear Diane, >> As noted by Natasha Rakhlin, repetitions are typically excluded from >> MLU. This is done automatically and by default in the CLAN MLU program, >> using the marking of repetitions with the [/] and [//] >> symbols. There is also a program called REPEAT that can add these marks if >> they are not present, but it is safer to do this carefully when >> transcribing. >> >> ? Brian MacWhinney >> >> >> On Jun 5, 2014, at 6:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin < >> diane.lillomartin at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions for >> various types of analyses, especially MLU. >> >> In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, >> such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the >> ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either immediate or >> with some intervening talk. >> >> I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according to >> the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included in >> the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the >> command is set to exclude them. >> >> If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how do >> you treat such repetitions? >> >> Many thanks in advance, >> Diane >> >> ---------- >> Diane Lillo-Martin >> University of Connecticut >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/FB66A613-71C6-4351-B668-D5E06DAE9DF0%40cmu.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAMWGojn2pTxdtvgcc0Y%3DuQDsNvWyYVCWh%2B6QRKWDXXzSCiuf7Q%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgordon at tc.edu Fri Jun 6 14:38:32 2014 From: pgordon at tc.edu (Gordon, Peter) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:38:32 -0400 Subject: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. Peter Gordon On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study > (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for > idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic > language expressions in a group intervention for > children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464.* > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Keith Nelson > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson > > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews > lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, > Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper > wrote: > >> Hi folks-- >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> "I know a shortcut" >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> a stomache who said" >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> motivated. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN >> wrote: >> >>> Dear H?seyin, >>> >>> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking >>> that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >>> >>> ? (Concerning your question about the location of data >>> collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends >>> totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student >>> (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; >>> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be >>> the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean >>> Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their >>> list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of >>> prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities >>> overlap to the sufficient extent. >>> >>> ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you >>> assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >>> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >>> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >>> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >>> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >>> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >>> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >>> >>> ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of >>> the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather >>> than the expressions? containing prototypical elements. You know, *some >>> birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have >>> some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >>> >>> ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too >>> much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >>> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >>> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >>> >>> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding >>> study. Good luck in all ways. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>>> >>>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >>>> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >>>> >>>> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >>>> language? >>>> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >>>> or more generally figurative language? >>>> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>>> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >>>> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >>>> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>>> perspective.) >>>> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Huseyin >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> 413 256 0390 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Peter Gordon, Associate Professor Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 Teachers College, Columbia University 1152 Thorndike Hall 525 W120th St. New York, NY 10027 Phone: 212 678-8162 Fax: 212 678-8233 E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From javier.aguadoorea at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 14:32:12 2014 From: javier.aguadoorea at gmail.com (Javier) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 07:32:12 -0700 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: <2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Since you are mentioning 'a software available to scan a passage', and considering that we are in info-childes (and to my knowledge nobody mentioned it here) this simple command (assuming that your passage is saved in plain txt) would pool out a list of words in the passage (sorted by descending frequency): freq +y +o your_passage.txt Hope this helps, Javier El jueves, 5 de junio de 2014 16:19:31 UTC+2, Dale, Philip escribi?: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b8319e07-b5d0-47b6-89c7-369679465b8b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Fri Jun 6 15:36:26 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:36:26 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to everyone for all their help and suggestions. Clearly there are many ways in which frequency can important, depending on the research questions. The immediate stimulus for my message was not particularly about child language; I just assumed that there would be lots of expertise on this list, and I was right! I?m actually interested in using proportion of rare words (either as a dichotomy, or a mean level of frequency in the corpus database) as a potential ?semantic? aspect of readability of text not captured by most existing measures which primarily use word and sentence length. We?ll also be looking at syntactic complexity, especially in terms of independent clauses and temporal/causal/hierarchical structure. Ultimately the goal is to clarify individual differences in reading ability. Philip Dale From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 8:32 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Since you are mentioning 'a software available to scan a passage', and considering that we are in info-childes (and to my knowledge nobody mentioned it here) this simple command (assuming that your passage is saved in plain txt) would pool out a list of words in the passage (sorted by descending frequency): freq +y +o your_passage.txt Hope this helps, Javier El jueves, 5 de junio de 2014 16:19:31 UTC+2, Dale, Philip escribi?: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b8319e07-b5d0-47b6-89c7-369679465b8b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b92c2649dbd9443f92c0802372375aba%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bpearson at research.umass.edu Fri Jun 6 16:03:28 2014 From: bpearson at research.umass.edu (Barbara Z. Pearson) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 16:03:28 +0000 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Phil and others, I didn't jump in because we ended up using a printed word source--but since you're looking at reading... I am doing a project on narrative with a colleague in Communication Disorders here at UMass Amherst, Giang Pham. We kept coming across the term "tier 1" (and "tier 2 and 3" words), which I think comes from the Common Core, attributed to Isabel Beck, Margaret McKeown, and colleagues. When we looked for an authoritative (quantitative) source, we didn't find one. In fact, the basis seems to be guidelines for choosing which words will be most useful for one's own students. Anyway, I found an on-line word frequency database for children's printed word frequencies. (Children's Printed Word Database) I don't recommend it above others except that it's easy to access and (very) straightforward to use. (I don't think it's been mentioned yet, but I may easily have missed a posting or two.) http://www.essex.ac.uk/psychology/cpwd/ (University of Essex, an ESRC funded project.) last updated 2003 I put in a bunch of the words we wanted to call "tier 2" and ones that we questioned. But it's still hard to decide on a cut-off--and probably situation-specific. We didn't need to go further with it, but maybe someone on the list has more familiarity with this tiered vocabulary discussion. On the other hand, you might be hoping to tie off this thread. We've certainly already gotten a lot of good leads. Best wishes, Barbara ************************************************ Barbara Zurer Pearson, Ph.D. Research Associate Co-director, Language Acquisition Research Center c/o Linguistics, 226 South College University of Massachusetts Amherst Amherst MA 01003 bpearson at research.umass.edu http://www.umass.edu/aae/bp_indexold.htm http://www.zurer.com/pearson On Jun 6, 2014, at 11:36 AM, Philip Dale wrote: Thanks to everyone for all their help and suggestions. Clearly there are many ways in which frequency can important, depending on the research questions. The immediate stimulus for my message was not particularly about child language; I just assumed that there would be lots of expertise on this list, and I was right! I'm actually interested in using proportion of rare words (either as a dichotomy, or a mean level of frequency in the corpus database) as a potential 'semantic' aspect of readability of text not captured by most existing measures which primarily use word and sentence length. We'll also be looking at syntactic complexity, especially in terms of independent clauses and temporal/causal/hierarchical structure. Ultimately the goal is to clarify individual differences in reading ability. Philip Dale From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 8:32 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Since you are mentioning 'a software available to scan a passage', and considering that we are in info-childes (and to my knowledge nobody mentioned it here) this simple command (assuming that your passage is saved in plain txt) would pool out a list of words in the passage (sorted by descending frequency): freq +y +o your_passage.txt Hope this helps, Javier El jueves, 5 de junio de 2014 16:19:31 UTC+2, Dale, Philip escribi?: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b8319e07-b5d0-47b6-89c7-369679465b8b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b92c2649dbd9443f92c0802372375aba%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2FE136DC-A221-4614-BC9E-B7BD4BC01FAC%40ads.umass.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From corrigan at uwm.edu Fri Jun 6 16:09:46 2014 From: corrigan at uwm.edu (Roberta L Corrigan) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:09:46 -0500 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Phil, Do you know about Coh-Metrix? This is an alternative readability measure that has been underdevelopment for many years by Danielle McNamara and Art Graesser. Here's a link to an Educational Researcher article that describes the measure: http://edr.sagepub.com/content/40/5/223.short You can also Google on Coh-metrix and find tons of information on it. Bobbi Corrigan ----- Original Message ----- From: Philip Dale To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:36:26 -0500 (CDT) Subject: RE: list of common words Thanks to everyone for all their help and suggestions. Clearly there are many ways in which frequency can important, depending on the research questions. The immediate stimulus for my message was not particularly about child language; I just assumed that there would be lots of expertise on this list, and I was right! I?m actually interested in using proportion of rare words (either as a dichotomy, or a mean level of frequency in the corpus database) as a potential ?semantic? aspect of readability of text not captured by most existing measures which primarily use word and sentence length. We?ll also be looking at syntactic complexity, especially in terms of independent clauses and temporal/causal/hierarchical structure. Ultimately the goal is to clarify individual differences in reading ability. Philip Dale From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Javier Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 8:32 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: list of common words Since you are mentioning 'a software available to scan a passage', and considering that we are in info-childes (and to my knowledge nobody mentioned it here) this simple command (assuming that your passage is saved in plain txt) would pool out a list of words in the passage (sorted by descending frequency): freq +y +o your_passage.txt Hope this helps, Javier El jueves, 5 de junio de 2014 16:19:31 UTC+2, Dale, Philip escribi?: I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. Philip Dale -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b8319e07-b5d0-47b6-89c7-369679465b8b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b92c2649dbd9443f92c0802372375aba%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Roberta Corrigan, Professor Emerita, Departments of Linguistics and Educational Psychology web page-- https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/corrigan/www/corriganhome.htm -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1010504917.2140320.1402070986496.JavaMail.root%40uwm.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From todonnell at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 17:32:05 2014 From: todonnell at gmail.com (Timothy O'Donnell) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:32:05 -0700 Subject: CALL FOR PARTICIPATION: Cognitive Modeling and Computational Linguistics, 2014 Message-ID: CALL FOR PARTICIPATION Cognitive Modeling and Computational Linguistics 2014 (CMCL-2014) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cognitive Modeling and Computational Linguistics (CMCL) 2014 is a one-day workshop to be held in conjunction with the Annual Meeting of the Association for Computational Linguistics (ACL), Baltimore, Maryland on June 26th, 2014. This workshop provides a venue for work in computational psycholinguistics: computational and mathematical modeling of linguistic representation, development, and processing. http://cmcl.mit.edu/ Invited Speakers ---------------------- Ted Gibson (Massachusetts Institute of Technology) Naomi Feldman (University of Maryland) Full Worshop Program ------------------------------ Please see: http://cmcl.scripts.mit.edu/cmcl2014/?page_id=90 Workshop Chairs ----------------------- Vera Demberg Multimodal Computing and Interaction Cluster of Excellence, Saarland University, Germany Tim O?Donnell Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/894f45c4-5ad0-4e93-a39c-be8d0f1dcde2%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nippold at uoregon.edu Fri Jun 6 18:03:01 2014 From: nippold at uoregon.edu (Marilyn Nippold) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:03:01 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners Message-ID: It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: ?The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I?ll walk very carefully.? That?s just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings). Marilyn Nippold University of Oregon USA From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. Peter Gordon On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Keith Nelson Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: Hi folks-- just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: "I know a shortcut" "well, I know a shorter cut" and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it relates to complex sentences. Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent to children's comprehension of them. A child with a stomache who said" "there's a fireengine in my stomach" or a child with a stuffed nose who said: "there's paint in my nose". Deviations from compositionality can still be logically motivated. Tom Roeper On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN wrote: Dear H?seyin, (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) * (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. * One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. * Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions? containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. * Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: Dear all, First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: * What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language? * Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language? * Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? * What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.) * A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? Thanks, Huseyin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Peter Gordon, Associate Professor Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 Teachers College, Columbia University 1152 Thorndike Hall 525 W120th St. New York, NY 10027 Phone: 212 678-8162 Fax: 212 678-8233 E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com . For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macw at cmu.edu Fri Jun 6 20:36:32 2014 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 22:36:32 +0200 Subject: list of common words In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It would be interesting to compare p-lex with voc-d. The former, devised by Meara and Bell compares small samples against standardized corpora; the latter devised by Malvern, Richards, and colleagues, and implemented inside CLAN as the VOCD program focuses more on Monte Carlo estimation from small samples. I wonder if anyone has ever attempted this interesting comparison. The book describing VOCD is: Malvern, D., Richards, B., Chipere, N., & Pur?n, P. (2004). Lexical diversity and language development. New York: Palgrave Macmillan. Ngoni, given that you were a co-author on this book about VOCD, could you tell us why you think that p-lex might be more useful than VOCD for this purpose? Many thanks, --Brian MacWhinney On Jun 6, 2014, at 10:54 AM, Ngoni Chipere wrote: > You might want to have a look at Paul Meara's p_lex program, dowloadable here: > > http://www.lognostics.co.uk/tools/index.htm > > and explained here: > > http://www.ameprc.mq.edu.au/docs/prospect_journal/volume_16_no_3/Prospect_16,3_article_1.pdf > > regards > > Ngoni > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. rare wrods? Many thanks. > > Philip Dale > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CADSiM9BbmVxpUKaqNS8VTpWERzWdxp-RGcVY%2BuU978_AL1pFXw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2359CC65-1908-4011-9853-1A2C97D22A37%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ersilliman at gmail.com Fri Jun 6 21:04:43 2014 From: ersilliman at gmail.com (Elaine Silliman) Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:04:43 -0400 Subject: Digest for info-childes@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 3 topics In-Reply-To: <20cf300fad75d0e71404fb2a4367@google.com> Message-ID: Phillip and all -- There is also a software program based on the Educators' Word Frequency Guide (Zeno et al., 1995) that will calculate the subclass of word frequency being sought. A web search should result in the order information. Also, Freddy Hiebert has developed a procedure for determining rare words as a measure of text complexity. Go to TextProject.org for further information , including her publications on this topic. Best, Elaine Silliman Elaine R. Silliman Professor Emeritus Department of Communication Sciences and Disorders University of South Florida Tampa, FL 33647 silliman at usf.edu On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 8:47 AM, wrote: > Today's topic summary > > Group: http://groups.google.com/group/info-childes/topics > > - list of common words <#1467138534e5c017_group_thread_0> [19 Updates] > - Repetitions in child production <#1467138534e5c017_group_thread_1> > [3 Updates] > - Idiom comprehension in child language > <#1467138534e5c017_group_thread_2> [2 Updates] > > list of common words > > > Philip Dale Jun 05 02:19PM > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of 'rare' words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > > > "Tager-Flusberg, Helen B" Jun 05 02:25PM > > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > Erika Hoff Jun 05 10:29AM -0400 > > Me too. > > Erika > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> > wrote: > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > > > > > Nan Bernstein Ratner Jun 05 02:45PM > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > Philip Dale Jun 05 03:06PM > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > Nan Bernstein Ratner Jun 05 03:08PM > > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our > child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), > and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of > maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > "Hedvig Skirg?rd" Jun 05 05:21PM +0200 > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or > BNC? > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Philip Dale Jun 05 03:23PM > > Could you spell those out? > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirg?rd > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or > BNC? > > /Hedvig > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our > child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), > and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of > maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > "Hedvig Skirg?rd" Jun 05 05:28PM +0200 > > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Nan Bernstein Ratner Jun 05 03:29PM > > OK, I am attaching Beals and Tabors, which explains the file and how > it was constructed; since it was to look at rare words as defined by speech > children are more likely to hear, the list was derived by using a list that > Chall and Dale composed, based on 4th grade vocabulary. Like Philip, I have > no idea what those other lists or resources are, but if you want to look at > CDS, this list has a reasonable pedigree. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:24 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Could you spell those out? > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirg?rd > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or > BNC? > > /Hedvig > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our > child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), > and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of > maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > "Hedvig Skirg?rd" Jun 05 05:30PM +0200 > > However, I don't really know what variety of English you're after, nor > genre or adult-adult or adult-child. > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Shelley Brundage Jun 05 11:30AM -0400 > > ho Folks > I was remembering something by Thorndike and Lorge. Here is some info > from > Wikipedia regarding 'traditional lists of word frequency": > > Traditional lists[edit > < > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Word_lists_by_frequency&action=edit§ion=10 > > > ]The Teachers Word Book of 30,000 words (Thorndike and Lorge, 1944) > > The TWB contains 30,000 lemmas or ~13,000 word families (Goulden, > Nation > and Read, 1990). A corpus of 18,000,000 written words was hand > analysed. > The size of its inputted corpus increased its usefulness, but its age > and > language change reduced its applicability (Nation 1997 > >). > The General Service List > (West, > 1953) > > The GSL contains 2,000 headwords divided into two sets of 1,000 words. > A > corpus of 5,000,000 written words was analysed in the 1940s. Rate of > occurrence (%) for different meanings and parts of speech of the > headword > are provided, while it was also a careful application of the various > criteria other than frequency and range. Thus, despite its age, some > errors, and its solely written base, it is still an excellent database > (word frequency, frequency of meanings, reduction of noise) (Nation > 1997 > >). > The American Heritage Word Frequency Book (Carroll, Davies and Richman, > 1971) > > A corpus of 5,000,000 running words, from written texts used in United > States schools (various grades, various subject areas). Its value is > in its > focus on school teaching materials, and its tagging of words, namely > the > frequency of each word in each of the school grade levels and in each > of > the subject areas (Nation 1997 > >). > The Brown (Francis and Kucera, 1982) LOB and related corpora > > These now contain 1,000,000 words from a written corpora representing > different dialects of English. These sources are used to produce > frequency > lists (Nation 1997 > >). > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:45 AM, Nan Bernstein Ratner > wrote: > > > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > > > > . > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > Shelley B. Brundage, Ph.D., CCC-S > Associate Professor and Graduate Program Director > ASHA Fellow > Board Recognized Specialist and Mentor-Fluency Disorders > Speech and Hearing Science department > George Washington University > 2115 G St NW Suite 201 > Washington, D.C. 20052 > (202) 994-5008 office > (202 994-2205 lab > (202) 994-2589 fax > > > > > "Hedvig Skirg?rd" Jun 05 05:33PM +0200 > > COCA and BNC are both based on the Brown corpus structure, and much > larger. > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Philip Dale Jun 05 03:42PM > > Thanks so much. I should have been clearer at the outset. In this > case, I?m interested in adult-adult speech (for adult-child speech, as in > Goodman, Dale & Li, 2008, we used a FREQ analysis of CHILDES corpora). > COCA looks the best, as it actually has word frequencies. On first > examination, BNC is just the corpora, and you?d have to do the analyses > yourself. But I might be wrong here. > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto: > info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirg?rd > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:29 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Corpus of Contemporary American English (COCA): > http://corpus.byu.edu/coca/ > British National Corpus (BNC http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/ > /Hedvig > > 2014-06-05 17:23 GMT+02:00 Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>>: > Could you spell those out? > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Hedvig Skirg?rd > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 9:22 AM > > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > You want adult-adult frequencies right? Why not just use the COCA or > BNC? > > /Hedvig > > 2014-06-05 17:08 GMT+02:00 Nan Bernstein Ratner >: > We did what the earlier posting suggested, filtered our > child-addressed speech samples through this in CLAN (e.g., -s at lexrare), > and then additionally cleaned up proper names for a proportion of > maternal/paternal input that consisted of relatively rare words. > > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com > ] On Behalf Of Philip Dale > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 11:06 AM > > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > Yes, I?m pretty sure this is it; thanks, Nan. Did you use software to > determine frequencies? > Philip > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Nan Bernstein Ratner > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 8:46 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: list of common words > > I think this is what folks want. My memory is that it was prepared by > Patton Tabors of Harvard Grad School of Ed; we have used it in a few > studies. I hope this attachment will go through. I do not know if there are > others; this is the one we have used. > > Best to all, > Nan > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com info-childes at googlegroups.com> [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] > On Behalf Of Erika Hoff > Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 10:30 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: list of common words > > Me too. > > Erika > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> wrote: > Philip, > I too am interested in this information ---can you send me useful > replies? > > thanks! > Helen > _________________________________ > Helen Tager-Flusberg, Ph.D. > Professor of Psychological & Brain Sciences, Boston University > Professor of Anatomy & Neurobiology and Pediatrics, BUSM > > Address > Department of Psychological & Brain Sciences > Center for Autism Research Excellence > 100 Cummington Mall > Boston MA 02215 > T: 617-358-5919 > htagerf at bu.edu > www.bu.edu/autism > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 10:19 AM, Philip Dale dalep at unm.edu>> wrote: > > I have the memory that there is a list somewhere of the 3000 (?) most > common words in English, which can be used by exclusion to measure the use > of ?rare? words. Can someone point me to that list? Even better, is there > software available to scan a passage and compute the number of common vs. > rare wrods? Many thanks. > Philip Dale > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/2e869b16c09143509f191dce9cb13bb3%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/DDE5FDB8-08AD-4A8E-9566-51DA114C80F5%40bu.edu?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Erika Hoff, Professor > Department of Psychology > Florida Atlantic University > 3200 College Ave. > Davie, FL 33314 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAAhHXzW_HvjWD9hzzLF%2BJg%2BtW8yQNt6jLUAZKY1DGzYmQfJEKg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADC96%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/81abdd0a6bca4a74b910e09c63190eed%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D4ADF2B%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT11DyoY5WZAGTOvAS%3DZva-00JrNHKLmaOeaLrkTA00TGw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a3419be04a184b6094a4a5636e8054cb%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAHHFGT1B%2B4J0KPk5MZLr10NMhg5VQ5SqRJ-W%2BJ4RVNFRMajBiw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > "Hedvig Skirg?rd" Jun 05 05:48PM +0200 > > You should use COCA or BNC depending on whether you're looking at a > American or British variety > > There are different ways of counting frequency, and you might not be > interested in all the material in COCA/BNC, so be aware of the > proportions > of genres, speakers etc. > > If you want to learn more about frequencies in the BNC, go here: > http://www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk/using/index.xml?ID=other#freq > > /Hedvig > > > > > > > Roberta Golinkoff Jun 05 01:56PM -0400 > > Masterson, J., Druks, J., & Gallienne, D. (2008). Object and action > picture > naming in 3- to 5-year-old children. *Journal of Child Language, 35*, > 373-402. > > I have found the above useful for their word lists. > Best, Roberta Golinkoff > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Tager-Flusberg, Helen B < > htagerf at bu.edu> > wrote: > > > -- > Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, Ph. D. > Unidel H. Rodney Sharp Professor > School of Education and Departments of Psychology and Linguistics and > Cognitive Science > University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716 > Office: 302-831-1634; Fax: 302-831-4110 > Web page: http://udel.edu/~roberta/ > PI on Institute of Education Sciences Postdoctoral Training Grant > The late Mary Dunn said, "Life is the time we have to learn." > > > > > walesgin Jun 05 02:24PM -0400 > > I asked my colleague Hans Stadthagen-Gonzalez about this, and he > replied > with the following, which may be of some help: > > I don?t know of any list of 3000 words per se, but there are several > word > frequency corpora that could easily be used for this. Out of the top > of my > head, CELEX or the British National Corpus (BNC) are widely used and > each > has a very large sample but are both for British English. A good > alternative for American English is Brysbaert?s SubtlexUS, which is > based > on movie subtitles and has been shown to explain a large portion of > variance in word recognition (in other words, it?s a good sample). You > can > find more info here:expsy.ugent.be/subtlexus/ > > If you need frequency counts for particular age groups, there?s the > Educator?s Word Frequency Guide, which is stratified by school grade > and > based on reading materials from Kindergarten through 12+ grade. > > Going back to the question, I would not frame it in terms of 3K words > and > whatever is not on the list is considered ?rare?, but in terms of a > cutoff > frequency below which words are considered infrequent. The cutoff > would be > somewhat arbitrary and dependent on the purpose of the study (but > there is > literature out there discussing this issue). > > > > Best, > > > > > > V. C. Mueller Gathercole > Professor of Linguistics > Coordinator PhD Program > Florida International University > > > > > http://vcmuellergathercole.weebly.com/index.html > > *** SPECIAL OFFER to launch new books *Issues in the Assessment of > Bilinguals* and *Solutions for the Assessment of Bilinguals*, edited > by V C > Mueller Gathercole and published by Multilingual Matters: 30% off: > http://www.channelviewpublications.com/specialoffers.asp? > [TOC at: > http://vcmuellergathercole.weebly.com/selected-publications-books.html] > > Latest news from FIU's Linguistics Program: > http://linguisticshotnews.weebly.com > > Information on FIU's recent Barbara Gordon Lecture and Linguistics > Festival, Mar. 6 & 7: http://linguisticshotnews.weebly.com > > > > > > > Ngoni Chipere Jun 06 04:54AM -0400 > > You might want to have a look at Paul Meara's p_lex program, > dowloadable > here: > > http://www.lognostics.co.uk/tools/index.htm > > and explained here: > > > http://www.ameprc.mq.edu.au/docs/prospect_journal/volume_16_no_3/Prospect_16,3_article_1.pdf > > regards > > Ngoni > > > > > > > Christophe dos Santos Jun 06 > 02:17PM +0200 > > If you look for adult-adult oral language frequencies of American > English, > you may want to have a look to SUBTL database. > > http://subtlexus.lexique.org/ > > Best, > > Christophe dos Santos > Universit? Fran?ois-Rabelais, Tours > > > > > > > Repetitions in child production > > > Diane Lillo-Martin Jun 05 12:04PM -0400 > > Dear all, > I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions > for > various types of analyses, especially MLU. > > In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase repetitions, > such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing with the > ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either > immediate or > with some intervening talk. > > I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according > to > the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be > included in > the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the > command is set to exclude them. > > If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how > do you > treat such repetitions? > > Many thanks in advance, > Diane > > ---------- > Diane Lillo-Martin > University of Connecticut > > > > > "Rakhlin, Natalia" Jun 05 04:16PM > > Hi, Diane, > > Repetitions and other types of "mazes" (false starts, interjections, > self-corrections) are typically not included as countable utterance for MLU > calculation, although it may be included in some types of analyses > depending on your goal. There are some pretty good papers that describe > principled ways of chunking spoken language into analyzable units. Here is > one (but there may be better ones - if you would like, I can take a look > and send you more references): Foster, P., Tonkyn, A., & Wigglesworth > (2000). Measuring Spoken Language: a Unit for All Reasons, Applied > Linguistics, 21/3, 354-375. > > Best, > > Natasha > > > > > Natalia Rakhlin, Ph.D. > Child Study Center > Yale University > 230 South Frontage Rd > New Haven CT 06519-1124 > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Diane Lillo-Martin wrote: > > Dear all, > I would be very interested in knowing how you treat self-repetitions > for various types of analyses, especially MLU. > > In particular, I'm thinking of both single word and phrase > repetitions, such as a sequence of repeating the word 'ball' while playing > with the ball; or repetitions of phrases such as 'want cookie', either > immediate or with some intervening talk. > > I know that immediate repetitions are generally not counted according > to the criteria established by Brown. I believe that they would be included > in the CLAN calculation of MLU unless they are specifically tagged and the > command is set to exclude them. > > If you work with MLU or other measures for which it is relevant, how > do you treat such repetitions? > > Many thanks in advance, > Diane > > ---------- > Diane Lillo-Martin > University of Connecticut > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAG5pRn%3DRhNa9w8o6hSjMm89NKGqOHe969x-5C9OfsDuR1YAevw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > Brian MacWhinney Jun 06 09:32AM +0200 > > Dear Diane, > As noted by Natasha Rakhlin, repetitions are typically excluded from > MLU. This is done automatically and by default in the CLAN MLU program, > using the marking of repetitions with the [/] and [//] > symbols. There is also a program called REPEAT that can add these marks if > they are not present, but it is safer to do this carefully when > transcribing. > > ? Brian MacWhinney > > > > > > Idiom comprehension in child language > > > Tom Roeper Jun 05 09:44AM -0400 > > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > "I know a shortcut" > "well, I know a shorter cut" > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > a stomache who said" > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > > > > Keith Nelson Jun 05 11:44AM -0400 > > Hi all. I m attaching a JCL paper just out from our lab that reviews > lit > and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, > Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper > wrote: > > > > > -- *Elaine R. Silliman, Ph.D.* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAC%2BWDHa-BSfN%2BeQJEKkCPCKLZKz7pR0KvSsoYJJ-k6vtRhSXLQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgordon at tc.edu Sat Jun 7 22:58:32 2014 From: pgordon at tc.edu (Gordon, Peter) Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 18:58:32 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: <009601cf81b1$8e84dc20$ab8e9460$@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Hi Marilyn, I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. Fun to think about! Peter On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold wrote: > It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) > often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is > because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are > culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* > avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the > English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that > the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in > the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in > the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning > English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily > translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb > is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: > > ?The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I?ll > walk very carefully.? That?s just the nature of different types of > figurative expressions (and human beings). > > Marilyn Nippold > > University of Oregon > > USA > > *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ]* On > Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter > *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM > *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language > > One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) > L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the > non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect > phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native > speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to > mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. > > Peter Gordon > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* > > wrote: > > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study > (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for > idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of > idiomatic language expressions in a group > intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , > Keith Nelson <*keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews > lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, > Keith > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* > > wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > > "I know a shortcut" > > "well, I know a shorter cut" > > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > > in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > > a stomache who said" > > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* > > wrote: > > Dear H?seyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here > thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > ? (Concerning your question about the location of data > collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends > totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student > (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; > watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may > be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in > Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences > depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic > and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of > prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. > > ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, > you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of > compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic > unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the > whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it > comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality > Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of > pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the > prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic > expressions) itself rather than the expressions? containing prototypical > elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some > idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or > regarding other qualities. > > ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be > too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal > observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions > or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your > demanding study. Good luck in all ways. > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* > wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first > question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the > point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language > development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) > experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature > in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by > Gibbs and Colston in > *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* > ). So my > questions are as follows: > > ? What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child > language? > > ? Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, > or more generally figurative language? > > ? Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > > ? What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in > idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism > or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another > perspective.) > > ? A third research field having just popped into my mind is child > directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > > Huseyin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* > . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > *413 256 0390* <413%20256%200390> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* > . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* > . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > > > -- > > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > > Teachers College, Columbia University > > 1152 Thorndike Hall > > 525 W120th St. > > New York, NY 10027 > > Phone: 212 678-8162 > > Fax: 212 678-8233 > > E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* > > Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* > . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Peter Gordon, Associate Professor Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 Teachers College, Columbia University 1152 Thorndike Hall 525 W120th St. New York, NY 10027 Phone: 212 678-8162 Fax: 212 678-8233 E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk Sun Jun 8 05:40:58 2014 From: marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk (Marilyn Vihman) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:40:58 +0300 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Peter, This is an interesting new strand to the discussion! Without being a neuro specialist at all, I'd just like to comment on your idea about the second hypothesis. Based on the work of Bates, Thal and their group on language learning in children with focal lesions - as well as on much other work on hemispheric specialization - it seems that in at least in L1 novel expressions will first be picked up by the RH because it is attuned to what is novel and is the first port for holistic processing. This all fits well enough with what you say, except for the 'shunting...into RH'. A difference from L2 would be that the linguistic analysis by the LH is likely not to function at all in L1 until some criterial amount of holistic word/phrase knowledge has been picked up by the RH (John Locke had an interesting 1994 paper about the transfer of early L1 linguistic knowledge to LH; I doubt that it is quite right, but I don't know of an alternative view). (I realise that the LH has been shown to be active in consonant discrimination more or less from birth, but that is not the same thing as processing lexical items, of course.) In L2, on the other hand, the LH is already functional for sublexical analysis - even in very young L2 learners, so idioms, on your 2nd hypothesis, could begin to be (mistakenly) analysed into components wherever the individual lexical items are known before the idiom as a whole is encountered - again, more likely in L2 than in L1. One thing to add is that very young L2 learners, whose phonological memory has already begun to be constructed with linguistic memory (see Keren-Portnoy et al. 2010, JSLHR), tend generally to begin L2 learning with chunks or formulaic language - i.e., with longer lexical units than single words - unlike most L1 learners (see Vihman 1982, in Obler & Menn's book on Exceptional Language). I'm not sure how to follow out the implications of this in relation to idiom learning...but yes, this is a fun topic to brainstorm about! -marilyn vihman On 8 Jun 2014, at 01:58, "Gordon, Peter" wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > > I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. > > Fun to think about! > > Peter > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold wrote: > It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: > > "The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I'll walk very carefully." That's just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings). > > Marilyn Nippold > > University of Oregon > > USA > > > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language > > > One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. > > > Peter Gordon > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: > > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Keith Nelson > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > > "I know a shortcut" > > "well, I know a shorter cut" > > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > > in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > > relates to complex sentences. > > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > > a stomache who said" > > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > > "there's paint in my nose". > > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > > motivated. > > > Tom Roeper > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN wrote: > > Dear H?seyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > ? (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as "prototype words"; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. > > ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions' containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. > > ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. > > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: > > ? What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language? > > ? Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language? > > ? Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > > ? What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.) > > ? A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > > Huseyin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > > Teachers College, Columbia University > > 1152 Thorndike Hall > > 525 W120th St. > > New York, NY 10027 > > Phone: 212 678-8162 > > Fax: 212 678-8233 > > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > Teachers College, Columbia University > 1152 Thorndike Hall > 525 W120th St. > New York, NY 10027 > Phone: 212 678-8162 > Fax: 212 678-8233 > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Marilyn Vihman Language and Linguistic Science Vanbrugh College V/C/207 University of York Heslington YO10 5DD tel +44 (0)1904 323612 http://www.yorkphondev.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/D3BD1863-4E94-458E-9537-D73EB89C4FEA%40york.ac.uk. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macw at cmu.edu Sun Jun 8 06:43:40 2014 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:43:40 +0200 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Peter, There is indeed a lot of evidence that second language learners adopt an analytic approach that short-circuits chunking. However, often the source of their errors and incomplete learning is transfer, rather than inadequate episodic encoding or chunking. Of course, L2 learners have a perfectly intact RH, so perhaps we want to trace at least some of the problems L2 learners have with idioms to inadequate input. I am thinking about the interactions I had recently with my granddaughter about the idioms of "pain in the neck" and "pain in the butt". I must have spent about 10 minutes explaining to her that these were not literally pains, but rather difficult situations or people. She found it all quite amusing. If I had spent the same amount of time indulging a second language learner with all the same explanations, I think they would have benefitted just the same. But, typically, we are not as patient with second language learners as we are with our children and grandchildren. I realize that one anecdote does not prove a point, but trying to find examples of parental tutorials on idioms in even the richest transcript database is going to be difficult. Instead, I would point to Chukovskij's "From Two to Five" and similar diary-type materials to see how children work together with adults to dig out the meanings of idioms. -- Brian MacWhinney On Jun 8, 2014, at 12:58 AM, Gordon, Peter wrote: > Hi Marilyn, > > I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. > > Fun to think about! > > Peter > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold wrote: > It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: > > "The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I'll walk very carefully." That's just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings). > > Marilyn Nippold > > University of Oregon > > USA > > > > > From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter > Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language > > > One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. > > > Peter Gordon > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: > > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464. > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Keith Nelson > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > > "I know a shortcut" > > "well, I know a shorter cut" > > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > > in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > > relates to complex sentences. > > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > > a stomache who said" > > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > > "there's paint in my nose". > > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > > motivated. > > > Tom Roeper > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN wrote: > > Dear H?seyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > ? (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as "prototype words"; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. > > ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions' containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. > > ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. > > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: > > ? What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language? > > ? Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language? > > ? Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > > ? What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.) > > ? A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > > Huseyin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > > Teachers College, Columbia University > > 1152 Thorndike Hall > > 525 W120th St. > > New York, NY 10027 > > Phone: 212 678-8162 > > Fax: 212 678-8233 > > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > Teachers College, Columbia University > 1152 Thorndike Hall > 525 W120th St. > New York, NY 10027 > Phone: 212 678-8162 > Fax: 212 678-8233 > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/881C1734-26A6-4AA5-ABE3-DC902529F314%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k1n at psu.edu Sun Jun 8 12:57:33 2014 From: k1n at psu.edu (Keith Nelson) Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 08:57:33 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: <881C1734-26A6-4AA5-ABE3-DC902529F314@cmu.edu> Message-ID: Peter, Brian, Marilyn, all. I believe that there is an additional complication for these issues. Namely, tho L2 learners often find idioms difficult, so do L1 learners. That is, relative to the difficulty/age of acquisition for idioms and metaphors the vast majority of lexical and syntactic structures are less difficult--idioms, metaphors, and a small set of syntactic structures are "late acquisitions." As regards the relevant interactions that Brian has mentioned, in naturalistic work the literature appears pretty silent. We have shown in the Autism paper cited earlier that for children with ASD idioms are indeed very late acquisitions, but that a small number of engaging and varied interactions about idiom meaning lead to rapid mastery. Cheers, Keith On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Brian MacWhinney wrote: > Peter, > > There is indeed a lot of evidence that second language learners adopt > an analytic approach that short-circuits chunking. However, often the > source of their errors and incomplete learning is transfer, rather than > inadequate episodic encoding or chunking. > Of course, L2 learners have a perfectly intact RH, so perhaps we want > to trace at least some of the problems L2 learners have with idioms to > inadequate input. I am thinking about the interactions I had recently with > my granddaughter about the idioms of ?pain in the neck? and ?pain in the > butt?. I must have spent about 10 minutes explaining to her that these > were not literally pains, but rather difficult situations or people. She > found it all quite amusing. If I had spent the same amount of time > indulging a second language learner with all the same explanations, I think > they would have benefitted just the same. But, typically, we are not as > patient with second language learners as we are with our children and > grandchildren. > I realize that one anecdote does not prove a point, but trying to find > examples of parental tutorials on idioms in even the richest transcript > database is going to be difficult. Instead, I would point to Chukovskij?s > ?From Two to Five? and similar diary-type materials to see how children > work together with adults to dig out the meanings of idioms. > > ? Brian MacWhinney > > On Jun 8, 2014, at 12:58 AM, Gordon, Peter wrote: > > Hi Marilyn, > > I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with > idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. > "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning > their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is > it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack > the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case > of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner > just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to > figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in > the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in > this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a > young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could > explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). > One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are > processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This > suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts > idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, > where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not > possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits > of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are > candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. > > Fun to think about! > > Peter > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold > wrote: > >> It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) >> often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is >> because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are >> culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* >> avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the >> English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that >> the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in >> the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in >> the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning >> English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily >> translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb >> is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: >> >> ?The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I?ll >> walk very carefully.? That?s just the nature of different types of >> figurative expressions (and human beings). >> >> Marilyn Nippold >> >> University of Oregon >> >> USA >> >> >> >> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ >> mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ]* >> On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter >> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM >> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language >> >> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) >> L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the >> non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect >> phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native >> speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to >> mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. >> >> Peter Gordon >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* > >> wrote: >> >> HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study >> (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for >> idioms. Best regards, Keith N >> >> >> *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of >> idiomatic language expressions in a group >> intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > >> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM >> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language >> To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , >> Keith Nelson <*keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > >> >> Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews >> lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, >> Keith >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* >> > wrote: >> >> Hi folks-- >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> >> "I know a shortcut" >> >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> >> in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> >> a stomache who said" >> >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> >> motivated. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* >> > wrote: >> >> Dear H?seyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here >> thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> ? (Concerning your question about the location of data >> collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends >> totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student >> (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; >> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may >> be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in >> Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences >> depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic >> and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of >> prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, >> you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the >> prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic >> expressions) itself rather than the expressions? containing prototypical >> elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some >> idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or >> regarding other qualities. >> >> ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would >> be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your >> demanding study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* >> wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >> >> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the >> point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language >> development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) >> experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature >> in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by >> Gibbs and Colston in >> *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* >> ). So my >> questions are as follows: >> >> ? What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in >> child language? >> >> ? Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >> or more generally figurative language? >> >> ? Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >> >> ? What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >> perspective.) >> >> ? A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Huseyin >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> *413 256 0390* <413%20256%200390> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> >> 525 W120th St. >> >> New York, NY 10027 >> >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> >> E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* >> >> Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > Teachers College, Columbia University > 1152 Thorndike Hall > 525 W120th St. > New York, NY 10027 > Phone: 212 678-8162 > Fax: 212 678-8233 > E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/881C1734-26A6-4AA5-ABE3-DC902529F314%40cmu.edu > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT630BDdt2wCHi%2BJXmj4GGc3Pw7_GnGr-52aHdZHg%2BPk5x%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philliphamrick at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 12:14:39 2014 From: philliphamrick at gmail.com (Phillip Hamrick) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 05:14:39 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Very interesting, Marylin. Has there been any further evidence since Vihman (in Obler & Menn) demonstrating that child L2 learners rely more extensively on chunks and formulaic language? Or is that the last demonstration you know of? There is tons of evidence for such formulaic over-reliance in adult L2s, but I've always heard--perhaps from being more in a usage-based background--that children relied on formulas early on, regardless of L1 or L2. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated. Great topic! Phillip Hamrick, Ph.D. Assistant Professor PI, Language and Cognition Research Laboratory Department of English Kent State University Kent, OH 44242 On Sunday, June 8, 2014 1:41:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Vihman wrote: > > Dear Peter, > > This is an interesting new strand to the discussion! Without being a neuro > specialist at all, I'd just like to comment on your idea about the second > hypothesis. Based on the work of Bates, Thal and their group on language > learning in children with focal lesions - as well as on much other work on > hemispheric specialization - it seems that in at least in L1 novel > expressions will first be picked up by the RH because it is attuned to what > is novel and is the first port for holistic processing. This all fits well > enough with what you say, except for the 'shunting?into RH'. A difference > from L2 would be that the linguistic analysis by the LH is likely not to > function at all in L1 until some criterial amount of holistic word/phrase > knowledge has been picked up by the RH (John Locke had an interesting 1994 > paper about the transfer of early L1 linguistic knowledge to LH; I doubt > that it is quite right, but I don't know of an alternative view). (I > realise that the LH has been shown to be active in consonant discrimination > more or less from birth, but that is not the same thing as processing > lexical items, of course.) In L2, on the other hand, the LH is already > functional for sublexical analysis - even in very young L2 learners, > so idioms, on your 2nd hypothesis, could begin to be (mistakenly) analysed > into components wherever the individual lexical items are known before the > idiom as a whole is encountered - again, more likely in L2 than in L1. > > One thing to add is that very young L2 learners, whose phonological memory > has already begun to be constructed with linguistic memory (see > Keren-Portnoy et al. 2010, *JSLHR*), tend generally to *begin* L2 > learning with chunks or formulaic language - i.e., with longer lexical > units than single words - unlike most L1 learners (see Vihman 1982, in > Obler & Menn's book on *Exceptional Language*). I'm not sure how to > follow out the implications of this in relation to idiom learning?but yes, > this is a fun topic to brainstorm about! > > -marilyn vihman > > On 8 Jun 2014, at 01:58, "Gordon, Peter" > > wrote: > > Hi Marilyn, > > I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with > idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. > "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning > their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is > it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack > the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case > of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner > just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to > figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in > the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in > this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a > young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could > explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). > One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are > processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This > suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts > idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, > where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not > possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits > of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are > candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. > > Fun to think about! > > Peter > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold > wrote: > >> It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) >> often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is >> because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are >> culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* >> avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the >> English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that >> the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in >> the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in >> the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning >> English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily >> translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb >> is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: >> >> ?The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I?ll >> walk very carefully.? That?s just the nature of different types of >> figurative expressions (and human beings). >> >> Marilyn Nippold >> >> University of Oregon >> >> USA >> >> >> >> *From:* info-c... at googlegroups.com [ >> mailto:in... at googlegroups.com ]* On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter >> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM >> *To:* info-c... at googlegroups.com >> *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language >> >> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) >> L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the >> non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect >> phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native >> speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to >> mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. >> >> Peter Gordon >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* > >> wrote: >> >> HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study >> (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for >> idioms. Best regards, Keith N >> >> >> *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of >> idiomatic language expressions in a group >> intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > >> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM >> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language >> To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , Keith Nelson < >> *keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > >> >> Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews >> lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, >> Keith >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* >> > wrote: >> >> Hi folks-- >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> >> "I know a shortcut" >> >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> >> in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> >> a stomache who said" >> >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> >> motivated. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* >> > wrote: >> >> Dear H?seyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here >> thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> ? (Concerning your question about the location of data >> collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends >> totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student >> (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; >> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may >> be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in >> Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences >> depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic >> and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of >> prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, >> you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the >> prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic >> expressions) itself rather than the expressions? containing prototypical >> elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some >> idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or >> regarding other qualities. >> >> ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would >> be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your >> demanding study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >> >> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the >> point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language >> development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) >> experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature >> in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by >> Gibbs and Colston in >> *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* >> ). So my >> questions are as follows: >> >> ? What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in >> child language? >> >> ? Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >> or more generally figurative language? >> >> ? Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >> >> ? What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >> perspective.) >> >> ? A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Huseyin >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> *413 256 0390* >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> >> 525 W120th St. >> >> New York, NY 10027 >> >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> >> E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* >> >> Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . >> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* >> >> . >> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >> . >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > Teachers College, Columbia University > 1152 Thorndike Hall > 525 W120th St. > New York, NY 10027 > Phone: 212 678-8162 > Fax: 212 678-8233 > E-mail: pgo... at tc.edu > Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com . > To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > Marilyn Vihman > Language and Linguistic Science > Vanbrugh College V/C/207 > University of York > Heslington > YO10 5DD > tel +44 (0)1904 323612 > http://www.yorkphondev.org > > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/d5dbc689-113d-4067-a5f3-b5c93023c402%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk Mon Jun 9 12:26:42 2014 From: marilyn.vihman at york.ac.uk (Marilyn Vihman) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:26:42 +0300 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Philip, I haven't really kept up with the literature on this, but Alison Wray has a relatively recent book on formulaic language use, which I think has a section on acquisition(I'm away at the moment so can't check the book on my shelf). For L1 it is definitely not the rule - not what you find in most cases, with the exception of a small number of early learned phrases like 'what's this' which are to a child as much a single unit as 'goodbye' or 'thank you'... -marilyn On 9 Jun 2014, at 15:14, Phillip Hamrick wrote: > Very interesting, Marylin. Has there been any further evidence since Vihman (in Obler & Menn) demonstrating that child L2 learners rely more extensively on chunks and formulaic language? Or is that the last demonstration you know of? There is tons of evidence for such formulaic over-reliance in adult L2s, but I've always heard--perhaps from being more in a usage-based background--that children relied on formulas early on, regardless of L1 or L2. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated. > > Great topic! > > Phillip Hamrick, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor > PI, Language and Cognition Research Laboratory > Department of English > Kent State University > Kent, OH 44242 > > On Sunday, June 8, 2014 1:41:15 AM UTC-4, Marilyn Vihman wrote: > Dear Peter, > > This is an interesting new strand to the discussion! Without being a neuro specialist at all, I'd just like to comment on your idea about the second hypothesis. Based on the work of Bates, Thal and their group on language learning in children with focal lesions - as well as on much other work on hemispheric specialization - it seems that in at least in L1 novel expressions will first be picked up by the RH because it is attuned to what is novel and is the first port for holistic processing. This all fits well enough with what you say, except for the 'shunting...into RH'. A difference from L2 would be that the linguistic analysis by the LH is likely not to function at all in L1 until some criterial amount of holistic word/phrase knowledge has been picked up by the RH (John Locke had an interesting 1994 paper about the transfer of early L1 linguistic knowledge to LH; I doubt that it is quite right, but I don't know of an alternative view). (I realise that the LH has been shown to be active in consonant discrimination more or less from birth, but that is not the same thing as processing lexical items, of course.) In L2, on the other hand, the LH is already functional for sublexical analysis - even in very young L2 learners, so idioms, on your 2nd hypothesis, could begin to be (mistakenly) analysed into components wherever the individual lexical items are known before the idiom as a whole is encountered - again, more likely in L2 than in L1. > > One thing to add is that very young L2 learners, whose phonological memory has already begun to be constructed with linguistic memory (see Keren-Portnoy et al. 2010, JSLHR), tend generally to begin L2 learning with chunks or formulaic language - i.e., with longer lexical units than single words - unlike most L1 learners (see Vihman 1982, in Obler & Menn's book on Exceptional Language). I'm not sure how to follow out the implications of this in relation to idiom learning...but yes, this is a fun topic to brainstorm about! > > -marilyn vihman > > On 8 Jun 2014, at 01:58, "Gordon, Peter" wrote: > >> Hi Marilyn, >> >> I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. >> >> Fun to think about! >> >> Peter >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold wrote: >> It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom avoir le cafard (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or down in the dumps (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of down in the dumps might confuse the native French speaker who is learning English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: >> >> "The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I'll walk very carefully." That's just the nature of different types of figurative expressions (and human beings). >> >> Marilyn Nippold >> >> University of Oregon >> >> USA >> >> >> >> >> From: info-c... at googlegroups.com [mailto:in... at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gordon, Peter >> Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM >> To: info-c... at googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language >> >> >> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. >> >> >> Peter Gordon >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: >> >> HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N >> >> >> Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions in a group intervention for children with autism, Autism, 17, 449-464. >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Keith Nelson >> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM >> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language >> To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson >> >> Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper wrote: >> >> Hi folks-- >> >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> >> "I know a shortcut" >> >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> >> in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> >> a stomache who said" >> >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> >> motivated. >> >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN wrote: >> >> Dear H?seyin, >> >> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >> >> ? (Concerning your question about the location of data collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as "prototype words"; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. >> >> ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >> >> ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather than the expressions' containing prototypical elements. You know, some birds are birder than other birds. Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >> >> ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >> >> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding study. Good luck in all ways. >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >> >> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >> >> ? What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language? >> >> ? Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language? >> >> ? Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >> >> ? What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.) >> >> ? A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Huseyin >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> 413 256 0390 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> >> 525 W120th St. >> >> New York, NY 10027 >> >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> >> E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu >> >> Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> 525 W120th St. >> New York, NY 10027 >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> E-mail: pgo... at tc.edu >> Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > Marilyn Vihman > Language and Linguistic Science > Vanbrugh College V/C/207 > University of York > Heslington > YO10 5DD > tel +44 (0)1904 323612 > http://www.yorkphondev.org > > > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/d5dbc689-113d-4067-a5f3-b5c93023c402%40googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. Marilyn Vihman Language and Linguistic Science Vanbrugh College V/C/207 University of York Heslington YO10 5DD tel +44 (0)1904 323612 http://www.yorkphondev.org -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/9F125403-E04A-48BD-A81F-8D169F0FDA49%40york.ac.uk. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roeper at linguist.umass.edu Mon Jun 9 13:07:22 2014 From: roeper at linguist.umass.edu (Tom Roeper) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 09:07:22 -0400 Subject: my acquisition course online Message-ID: Dear Everyone--- My undergraduage course on Language Acquisition will be offered online through the UMass dept of LIngjuistics and the Center http://www.umassulearn.net/classes/search. It will be in August 2014. The class is based on videos of my course which cover the experimental work on recursion, long-distance movement, quantification, parameter-setting and many of the experiments carried out at UMass and the Language Acquisition Research Center here which has participants from Smith and L2, ComDis and other depts. A number of graduate students have taken the course as well. Please let any interested students know There are still openings and if you or any students are interested, they should sign up. If they would like further information, I would be happy to correspond with them or any of you. Tom Roeper -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSnRbYrks3UL%2BVKvpxqao7sUK7T4gKq19eRnUUY8cjcv-A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 13:35:45 2014 From: aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com (Aliyah MORGENSTERN) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:35:45 +0200 Subject: my acquisition course online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Tom, I'm not sure this relates to your specific course, but it looks like it will be only possible for Americans living in the States (excluding certain States actually Alabama, Kansas and Arkansas, poor souls), so a lot of us in this list might not have access. http://www.umassulearn.net/online-learning I would have been interested in having some graduate students register but they live in ... Paris. Best, Aliyah Morgenstern Professor of Linguistics Sorbonne Nouvelle University Le 9 juin 2014 ? 15:07, Tom Roeper a ?crit : > Dear Everyone--- > > My undergraduage course on Language Acquisition will be > offered online through the UMass dept of LIngjuistics and > the Center http://www.umassulearn.net/classes/search. > It will be in August 2014. > The class is based on videos of my course which cover > the experimental work on recursion, long-distance movement, > quantification, parameter-setting and many of the experiments > carried out at UMass and the Language Acquisition Research > Center here which has participants from Smith and L2, ComDis > and other depts. > A number of graduate students have taken the course as > well. > Please let any interested students know There are still openings and if you or any students are > interested, they should sign up. If they would like further information, I would be happy to correspond with them or any of you. > > Tom Roeper > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSnRbYrks3UL%2BVKvpxqao7sUK7T4gKq19eRnUUY8cjcv-A%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/83A605E5-E570-4A7B-B00E-BE128B98C033%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philliphamrick at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 14:00:23 2014 From: philliphamrick at gmail.com (Phillip Hamrick) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 07:00:23 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: <009601cf81b1$8e84dc20$ab8e9460$@uoregon.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, Marylin! On Friday, June 6, 2014 2:02:59 PM UTC-4, nip... at uoregon.edu wrote: > > It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) > often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is > because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are > culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* > avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the > English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that > the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in > the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down in > the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning > English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more easily > translated from one language to another. For example, the following proverb > is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: > > ?The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I?ll > walk very carefully.? That?s just the nature of different types of > figurative expressions (and human beings). > > Marilyn Nippold > > University of Oregon > > USA > > *From:* info-c... at googlegroups.com [ > mailto:in... at googlegroups.com ]* On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter > *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM > *To:* info-c... at googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language > > One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) > L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the > non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect > phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native > speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to > mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. > > Peter Gordon > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* > > wrote: > > HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study > (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for > idioms. Best regards, Keith N > > > *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of > idiomatic language expressions in a group > intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > > Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language > To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , Keith Nelson < > *keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > > > Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews > lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, > Keith > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* > > wrote: > > Hi folks-- > > just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: > > "I know a shortcut" > > "well, I know a shorter cut" > > and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". > > I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears > > in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it > > relates to complex sentences. > > Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent > > to children's comprehension of them. A child with > > a stomache who said" > > "there's a fireengine in my stomach" > > or a child with a stuffed nose who said: > > "there's paint in my nose". > > Deviations from compositionality can still be logically > > motivated. > > Tom Roeper > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* > > wrote: > > Dear H?seyin, > > (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here > thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) > > ? (Concerning your question about the location of data > collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends > totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student > (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; > watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may > be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in > Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences > depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic > and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of > prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. > > ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, > you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of > compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic > unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the > whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it > comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality > Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of > pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. > > ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the > prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic > expressions) itself rather than the expressions? containing prototypical > elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. Some > idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally or > regarding other qualities. > > ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be > too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal > observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions > or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. > > I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your > demanding study. Good luck in all ways. > > > On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* wrote: > > Dear all, > > First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first > question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). > > I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the > point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language > development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) > experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature > in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by > Gibbs and Colston in > *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* > ). So my > questions are as follows: > > ? What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child > language? > > ? Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, > or more generally figurative language? > > ? Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? > > ? What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in > idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism > or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another > perspective.) > > ? A third research field having just popped into my mind is child > directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? > > Thanks, > > Huseyin > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > *413 256 0390* > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > > > > -- > > Peter Gordon, Associate Professor > > Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 > > Teachers College, Columbia University > > 1152 Thorndike Hall > > 525 W120th St. > > New York, NY 10027 > > Phone: 212 678-8162 > > Fax: 212 678-8233 > > E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* > > Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* . > To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* > . > To view this discussion on the web visit > *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* > > . > For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/a9b4e9d2-f4ee-4f81-ac10-7153f195dbfb%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pgordon at tc.edu Mon Jun 9 18:28:21 2014 From: pgordon at tc.edu (Gordon, Peter) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 14:28:21 -0400 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Everyone, thanks for chiming in on this interesting discussion. The original basis for my speculations about laterality were based on work by Diana Van Lanckner, who has several studies showing that formulaic expressions are preserved in LH Aphasic patients (e.g., a Broca's aphasic will have extreme difficulty putting words together to form novel sentences but will produce a perfectly fluent sentence if it is idiomatic or otherwise formulaic.) On the other hand, patients with right hemisphere strokes tend to selectively loose access to those same formulaic expressions. So, there seems to be prima facie evidence that the Left-Right double dissociation exists. The issue with L2 learners is not that they have unintact right hemispheres -- I assume Brian was being a bit flippant here of course; but in a similar vein, Brian seems to have been a much more attentive grandfather than I was ever a father, since I cannot recall ever having explained any idioms to my daughter, yet she seems to have mastered them very adequately. My hypothesis would be that semantic encoding bypasses certain kinds of information processing pathways in L2 learning. I think that I would disagree with Marilyn's suggestion here that the root is developmental bypassing of the RH route (if I'm reading this correctly). If we think of how information gets to left vs right hemisphere, one can think of it has fundamentally an issue of fast vs. slow sampling of information, either in the spatial or temporal mode. So LH information processing gathers rapidly changing information such as phoneme transitions into syllables and words, whereas RH samples more slowly changing information such as intonation contour, discourse structure and, yes, formulaic language, idioms and non-compositional pragmatic inference (e.g., "can you pass the salt?") In the spatial domain, the equivalent distinction would be things like LH shape recognition through changes in brightness values at the contour and texture, versus slow sampling in RH of changes in brightness values in the environment to encode spatial layouts in larger spaces to determine relative positions and geographical representations of space. It seems plausible that the "natural" implicit method of language learning in children incorporates information in both modalities (slow and fast) as plausible candidates for the meaningful interpretation of noises that come out of peoples' mouths. On the other hand, Late L2 learners might focus primarily on form-form-meaning correspondences that bypass the more global assessments of the informational environment. Peter Gordon On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Keith Nelson wrote: > Peter, Brian, Marilyn, all. I believe that there is an additional > complication for these issues. Namely, tho L2 learners often find idioms > difficult, so do L1 learners. That is, relative to the difficulty/age of > acquisition for idioms and metaphors the vast majority of lexical and > syntactic structures are less difficult--idioms, metaphors, and a small set > of syntactic structures are "late acquisitions." > > As regards the relevant interactions that Brian has mentioned, in > naturalistic work the literature appears pretty silent. We have shown in > the Autism paper cited earlier that for children with ASD idioms are indeed > very late acquisitions, but that a small number of engaging and varied > interactions about idiom meaning lead to rapid mastery. > > Cheers, Keith > > > On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 2:43 AM, Brian MacWhinney wrote: > >> Peter, >> >> There is indeed a lot of evidence that second language learners >> adopt an analytic approach that short-circuits chunking. However, often >> the source of their errors and incomplete learning is transfer, rather >> than inadequate episodic encoding or chunking. >> Of course, L2 learners have a perfectly intact RH, so perhaps we >> want to trace at least some of the problems L2 learners have with idioms to >> inadequate input. I am thinking about the interactions I had recently with >> my granddaughter about the idioms of ?pain in the neck? and ?pain in the >> butt?. I must have spent about 10 minutes explaining to her that these >> were not literally pains, but rather difficult situations or people. She >> found it all quite amusing. If I had spent the same amount of time >> indulging a second language learner with all the same explanations, I think >> they would have benefitted just the same. But, typically, we are not as >> patient with second language learners as we are with our children and >> grandchildren. >> I realize that one anecdote does not prove a point, but trying to >> find examples of parental tutorials on idioms in even the richest >> transcript database is going to be difficult. Instead, I would point to >> Chukovskij?s ?From Two to Five? and similar diary-type materials to see how >> children work together with adults to dig out the meanings of idioms. >> >> ? Brian MacWhinney >> >> On Jun 8, 2014, at 12:58 AM, Gordon, Peter wrote: >> >> Hi Marilyn, >> >> I think the problem with this explanation for L2 learners' problems with >> idiom comprehension is that the same problems should arise for L1 learners. >> "kick the bucket" etc. should be just as opaque to the child learning >> their first language as it is for the L2 learner. So, the question is: Is >> it the nature of the learning environment that allows L1 learners to "crack >> the code", so to speak, or is it in the nature of the learner? In the case >> of the first hypothesis, it might simply be the case that the L1 learner >> just has more exposure to language and idioms and more opportunity to >> figure the idiomatic meaning. However, L2 speakers who live full time in >> the country of the L2 seem to have just as much opportunity to interface in >> this way. So maybe it's the second hypothesis, and it's about being a >> young learner, possibly some form of the "less is more" hypothesis could >> explain this (right now, I don't see a clear line with that explanation). >> One interesting possibility might be related to the fact that idioms are >> processed in the Right Hemisphere analogue of language areas. This >> suggests that, at some point in the L1 learning process, the brain shunts >> idiomatic material (perhaps due to its non-compositional nature) into RH, >> where it is processed as chunks, but that this sorting process is not >> possible for L2 learners because they, in some sense, can only learn bits >> of language that conform to certain kinds of rule structures that are >> candidates for Left Hemisphere representation. >> >> Fun to think about! >> >> Peter >> >> >> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 2:03 PM, Marilyn Nippold >> wrote: >> >>> It is true that individuals who are learning a second language (L2) >>> often struggle to understand the idioms of the L2 (Liu, 2008). This is >>> because idioms do not translate easily from one language to another and are >>> culturally specific. For example, a literal translation of the French idiom* >>> avoir le cafard* (to have the cockroach) would not make sense to the >>> English-speaking person whose L2 is French until the individual learns that >>> the expression means to be bored and depressed (Delp, 2013) or* down in >>> the dumps* (Cousin, 1989). Conversely, a literal translation of* down >>> in the dumps* might confuse the native French speaker who is learning >>> English as an L2. This is in contrast to proverbs, which are more >>> easily translated from one language to another. For example, the following >>> proverb is Russian, but we all understand it instantly: >>> >>> ?The church is near but the road is all ice. The tavern is far, but I?ll >>> walk very carefully.? That?s just the nature of different types of >>> figurative expressions (and human beings). >>> >>> Marilyn Nippold >>> >>> University of Oregon >>> >>> USA >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* info-childes at googlegroups.com [ >>> mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com ]* >>> On Behalf Of* Gordon, Peter >>> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 7:39 AM >>> *To:* info-childes at googlegroups.com >>> *Subject:* Re: Nelson update on Idiom comprehension in child language >>> >>> One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are >>> (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in >>> the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have >>> perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from >>> native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow >>> linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing. >>> >>> Peter Gordon >>> >>> On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <*k1n at psu.edu* >>> > wrote: >>> >>> HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study >>> (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for >>> idioms. Best regards, Keith N >>> >>> >>> *Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan, K. S. (2013). Learning of >>> idiomatic language expressions in a group >>> intervention for children with autism,** Autism,** 17, 449-464.* >>> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>> From:* Keith Nelson* <*k1n at psu.edu* > >>> Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM >>> Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language >>> To: *info-childes at googlegroups.com* , >>> Keith Nelson <*keithnelsonart at gmail.com* > >>> >>> Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that >>> reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. >>> Cheers, Keith >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <*roeper at linguist.umass.edu* >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi folks-- >>> >>> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >>> >>> "I know a shortcut" >>> >>> "well, I know a shorter cut" >>> >>> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >>> >>> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >>> >>> in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >>> >>> relates to complex sentences. >>> >>> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >>> >>> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >>> >>> a stomache who said" >>> >>> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >>> >>> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >>> >>> "there's paint in my nose". >>> >>> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >>> >>> motivated. >>> >>> Tom Roeper >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN <*mehozcan20 at gmail.com* >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Dear H?seyin, >>> >>> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here >>> thinking that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >>> >>> ? (Concerning your question about the location of data >>> collection) The location you are going to collect the data >>> depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her >>> student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype >>> words?; watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in >>> Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in >>> Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your sentences >>> depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic >>> and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of >>> prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. >>> >>> ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I >>> understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the >>> framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger >>> linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each >>> element the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, >>> especially when it comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, >>> Compositionality Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain >>> the processing of pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your >>> assumptions. >>> >>> ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the >>> prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic >>> expressions) itself rather than the expressions? containing prototypical >>> elements. You know, *some birds are birder than other birds*. >>> Some idiomatic expressions may have some prototypical features structurally >>> or regarding other qualities. >>> >>> ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would >>> be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >>> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >>> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >>> >>> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your >>> demanding study. Good luck in all ways. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, *huy... at gmail.com* >>> wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>> >>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in >>> *http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747* >>> ). So my >>> questions are as follows: >>> >>> ? What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in >>> child language? >>> >>> ? Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >>> or more generally figurative language? >>> >>> ? Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>> >>> ? What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >>> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >>> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>> perspective.) >>> >>> ? A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Huseyin >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com* >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Tom Roeper >>> Dept of Lingiustics >>> UMass South College >>> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >>> *413 256 0390* <413%20256%200390> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com* >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >>> . >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT631kKXKMv5zWWb6HNiKfbGyf%3DNgxo96JaVeRSXKKMksVjQ%40mail.gmail.com* >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >>> >>> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >>> >>> Teachers College, Columbia University >>> >>> 1152 Thorndike Hall >>> >>> 525 W120th St. >>> >>> New York, NY 10027 >>> >>> Phone: 212 678-8162 >>> >>> Fax: 212 678-8233 >>> >>> E-mail: *pgordon at tc.edu* >>> >>> Web Page:*http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328* >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to *info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to *info-childes at googlegroups.com* >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> *https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-giJZTmpY%2BbJsJK4xJ3XvCwGC53Tb8%2BSKNCFurYSxjNQ%40mail.gmail.com* >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit *https://groups.google.com/d/optout* >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/009601cf81b1%248e84dc20%24ab8e9460%24%40uoregon.edu >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Peter Gordon, Associate Professor >> Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 >> Teachers College, Columbia University >> 1152 Thorndike Hall >> 525 W120th St. >> New York, NY 10027 >> Phone: 212 678-8162 >> Fax: 212 678-8233 >> E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu >> Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B9fXC2jVK%3DNkWcRndETGaVv5X-5YsyAyY6N7r2mLDuYkw%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/881C1734-26A6-4AA5-ABE3-DC902529F314%40cmu.edu >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJpT630BDdt2wCHi%2BJXmj4GGc3Pw7_GnGr-52aHdZHg%2BPk5x%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Peter Gordon, Associate Professor Biobehavioral Sciences Department, Box 180 Teachers College, Columbia University 1152 Thorndike Hall 525 W120th St. New York, NY 10027 Phone: 212 678-8162 Fax: 212 678-8233 E-mail: pgordon at tc.edu Web Page:http://www.tc.columbia.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJE3P%2B-U5B2q%3DK5aQYG_xNXeiR9HVqMJNYzN2YBVfaKyyh0jgA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roeper at linguist.umass.edu Mon Jun 9 19:06:17 2014 From: roeper at linguist.umass.edu (Tom Roeper) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:06:17 -0400 Subject: Acquisition course In-Reply-To: <27643_1402335760_5395F210_27643_9486_1_01c2c89be4086df2824f1cae44be9c87@localhost> Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Alice O'Brien Date: Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 2:59 PM Subject: RE: LINGUIST 411 SMR 14 TIME LINE-FYI & need inst compl form To: Tom Roeper Tom, Students from Europe can register on the CPE website. http://www.umassulearn.net/ Students from out of state should review this http://www.umassulearn.net/online-learning University of Massachusetts Amherst (Continuing & Professional Education) is unable to accept new students residing in: - Alabama - Arkansas - Kansas Here Information TECHNIAL REQUIREMENTS : http://www.umassonline.net/technical-support-and-requirements Alice O On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 1:42 PM, Natasha Ringblom < natasha.ringblom at slav.su.se> wrote: > Dear Tom - > I would love to take part in your acquisition course in August. > Please let me know what I should do in order to apply. > > Best, > Natasha Ringblom > Stockholm university > -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSk54GyU7AzAO%3D8XX_DW7%3DPGa6QLojMzHW5J%2BmSY%2BF%3DfUw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From roeper at linguist.umass.edu Mon Jun 9 19:27:33 2014 From: roeper at linguist.umass.edu (Tom Roeper) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 15:27:33 -0400 Subject: my acquisition course online In-Reply-To: <26913_1402320951_5395B837_26913_19575_1_83A605E5-E570-4A7B-B00E-BE128B98C033@gmail.com> Message-ID: Alliyah--- I have just received confirmation from CPE that students from Europe can enroll in the course (although, as you said, some from Arkansas, Alabama... cannot) Hope this works--- Tom On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Aliyah MORGENSTERN < aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Tom, > I'm not sure this relates to your specific course, but it looks like it > will be only possible for Americans living in the States (excluding certain > States actually Alabama, Kansas and Arkansas, poor souls), so a lot of us > in this list might not have access. > http://www.umassulearn.net/online-learning > I would have been interested in having some graduate students register but > they live in ? Paris. > Best, > Aliyah Morgenstern > Professor of Linguistics > Sorbonne Nouvelle University > > Le 9 juin 2014 ? 15:07, Tom Roeper a ?crit : > > Dear Everyone--- > > My undergraduage course on Language Acquisition will be > offered online through the UMass dept of LIngjuistics and > the Center http://www.umassulearn.net/classes/search. > It will be in August 2014. > The class is based on videos of my course which cover > the experimental work on recursion, long-distance movement, > quantification, parameter-setting and many of the experiments > carried out at UMass and the Language Acquisition Research > Center here which has participants from Smith and L2, ComDis > and other depts. > A number of graduate students have taken the course as > well. > Please let any interested students know There are still openings and if > you or any students are > interested, they should sign up. If they would like further information, > I would be happy to correspond with them or any of you. > > Tom Roeper > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSnRbYrks3UL%2BVKvpxqao7sUK7T4gKq19eRnUUY8cjcv-A%40mail.gmail.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/83A605E5-E570-4A7B-B00E-BE128B98C033%40gmail.com > > . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Tom Roeper Dept of Lingiustics UMass South College Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA 413 256 0390 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSk0Y%3DRLd5XZaRJ3HmOfbC-qsnHJN0SHd_krKKeeyOk6Hw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com Mon Jun 9 21:31:31 2014 From: aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com (Aliyah MORGENSTERN) Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 23:31:31 +0200 Subject: my acquisition course online In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you Tom, I will tell them! That's great, best, Aliyah Le 9 juin 2014 ? 21:27, Tom Roeper a ?crit : > Alliyah--- > > I have just received confirmation from CPE that students from > Europe can enroll in the course (although, as you said, some > from Arkansas, Alabama... cannot) > > Hope this works--- > > Tom > > > On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 9:35 AM, Aliyah MORGENSTERN wrote: > Dear Tom, > I'm not sure this relates to your specific course, but it looks like it will be only possible for Americans living in the States (excluding certain States actually Alabama, Kansas and Arkansas, poor souls), so a lot of us in this list might not have access. > http://www.umassulearn.net/online-learning > I would have been interested in having some graduate students register but they live in ... Paris. > Best, > Aliyah Morgenstern > Professor of Linguistics > Sorbonne Nouvelle University > > Le 9 juin 2014 ? 15:07, Tom Roeper a ?crit : > >> Dear Everyone--- >> >> My undergraduage course on Language Acquisition will be >> offered online through the UMass dept of LIngjuistics and >> the Center http://www.umassulearn.net/classes/search. >> It will be in August 2014. >> The class is based on videos of my course which cover >> the experimental work on recursion, long-distance movement, >> quantification, parameter-setting and many of the experiments >> carried out at UMass and the Language Acquisition Research >> Center here which has participants from Smith and L2, ComDis >> and other depts. >> A number of graduate students have taken the course as >> well. >> Please let any interested students know There are still openings and if you or any students are >> interested, they should sign up. If they would like further information, I would be happy to correspond with them or any of you. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> 413 256 0390 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSnRbYrks3UL%2BVKvpxqao7sUK7T4gKq19eRnUUY8cjcv-A%40mail.gmail.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/83A605E5-E570-4A7B-B00E-BE128B98C033%40gmail.com. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > Tom Roeper > Dept of Lingiustics > UMass South College > Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA > 413 256 0390 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSk0Y%3DRLd5XZaRJ3HmOfbC-qsnHJN0SHd_krKKeeyOk6Hw%40mail.gmail.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/82C25506-0B0D-4377-8133-2D96A3EBBAAD%40gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From p.monaghan at lancaster.ac.uk Tue Jun 10 07:07:46 2014 From: p.monaghan at lancaster.ac.uk (padraic monaghan) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 00:07:46 -0700 Subject: 4 research positions in communicative development at Lancaster University Message-ID: We are looking for three postdoctoral researchers and one research assistant to work on early language and communicative development as part of the new ESRC Centre for Language and Communicative Development. The posts are based at Lancaster University, UK. For details please see: research assistant: http://hr-jobs.lancs.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=A1009 postdoctoral positions: http://hr-jobs.lancs.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=A1010 http://hr-jobs.lancs.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=A1011 http://hr-jobs.lancs.ac.uk/Vacancy.aspx?ref=A1012 Padraic Monaghan Department of Psychology Lancaster University Lancaster LA1 4YF UK Tel: +44 (0)1524 593813 Fax: +44 (0)1524 593744 http://www.lancs.ac.uk/staff/monaghan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/b1f646d4-ba70-4d6d-9c72-e70be055284d%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ktmesseng at gmail.com Tue Jun 10 11:51:50 2014 From: ktmesseng at gmail.com (Katherine Messenger) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 04:51:50 -0700 Subject: PhD Studentship in Psychology of Language and Communication, University of Warwick Message-ID: *PhD Studentship in Psychology of Language and Communication * *Department of Psychology, University of Warwick* The Language and Learning group?s research in the Warwick Psychology Department covers a wide range of topics in psychological studies on language and communication (language acquisition, gesture, bilingual lexical development, visual word recognition, corpus analysis). Please see the Group website < http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/psych/research/language/> for a list of potential supervisors. Please note that Dr. Wonnacott and Dr. Carroll will not be available for supervision. We invite applications for a fully funded PhD Studentship. The three-year studentship is funded by the Psychology Department and is available in the Language and Learning Group in the Department of Psychology at the University of Warwick. Some teaching support duties will be required. Applicants with a background and interest in any area of language and communication, broadly defined, are encouraged to apply. Training in research methods and statistics for psychology is essential. A master's degree is welcome, but is not necessary. We encourage applicants to contact a potential supervisor to discuss possible projects before applying. *Funding Details*: Fees and maintenance at RCUK level. *Length of Award:* 3 years. *Eligibility:* Applications are open to all nationalities. Overseas applicants are welcome to apply but, if successful, will have to pay the difference between the Home/EU and Overseas Fees. *Application Details*: Applicants should send a CV (including two academic references), a transcript (or other lists) of grades, and a research proposal to . For further information please contact Professor S Kita on S.Kita at warwick.ac.uk or your potential supervisor. *Deadline: 27 June 2014* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/bdfa2f6d-1d81-4487-a422-12a9f0bb5a9f%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crojas at unam.mx Tue Jun 10 16:27:22 2014 From: crojas at unam.mx (Cecilia Rojas Nieto) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:27:22 -0500 Subject: Second call for papers DIAL-2014 Message-ID: Dear Info-CHILDES, The Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico, (UNAM) though the Institute of Research in Phylology and the Graduate Program in Linguistics opens a call for papers for the Individual Differences in Language Acquisition Meeting (DIAL-2014) to be held in Mexico City from October 9-10, 2014. (http://www.iifilologicas.unam.mx/dial-2014/) Deadline for the submission of abstracts is approaching: Papers are welcome in Spanish and English. All proposals for either oral communications or posters must relate to the conference theme Individual Differences, as seen from different perspectives: early language acquisition, child bilingual development, language development in atypical populations, input and usage, processing, among others. Deadline for the submission of abstracts: July 5th, 2014. Paper notification of acceptance: August 10th2014. Venue: Institute of Research in Phylology (Instituto de Investigaciones Filol?gicas) Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico (UNAM), in Mexico City Best regards, Cecilia Rojas-Nieto (for the Organizing committee) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CB93C561-5B77-4E12-9D2E-D7248768581F%40unam.mx. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsantelmann66 at gmail.com Tue Jun 10 16:39:56 2014 From: lsantelmann66 at gmail.com (Lynn Santelmann) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:39:56 -0700 Subject: phonological awareness measures In-Reply-To: <6a5624286732400f9665bbad4976b658@BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com> Message-ID: Can you use something from one of the other Scandinavian languages? Illinois Test of Psycholinguistic Abilities (adapted for Swedish - some years ago - it's got some phonological awareness, but just missing segments, if I remember correctly). Since this was originally an English-language test, this might help. http://www.hogrefe.se/sv/Skola/Las--skriv--och-matematikdiagnostik/Individuella-diagnoser/ITPA-3/ There is also a phonological awareness test for Swedish. I know nothing of it other than it's put out by the same people who publish the Swedish version of the ITPA. MiniDUVAN http://www.hogrefe.se/Skola/Las--skriv--och-matematikdiagnostik/Individuella-diagnoser/Mini-DUVAN/ - includes identification of sounds, segmentation/synthesis, manipulation och representation. Aimed at 4-6 year olds. There's a plain DUVAN for school aged children and adults. I suspect there must be something for Norwegian as well, but my pan-Scandinavian searching skills are weak. Lynn Santelmann Associate Professor Applied Linguistics Portland State University On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Philip Dale wrote: > I?m wondering if there are any phonological awareness tests that have > been adapted to languages other than the original one, with success in > terms of validity. A group of researchers at the University of Southern > Denmark has developed a comprehensive test of Danish for children between 3 > and 7, and is now norming and validating the measure. Validating the > phonological awareness portion of the measure is particularly challenging, > as we are not aware of a normed and validated measure of phonological > awareness in Danish to use as the criterion variable. One possibility would > be to adapt an existing measure to Danish for this purpose, but it would be > reassuring to know that the test has been previously adapted for other > languages. Alternatively, we would be interested in suggestions of other > procedures for validating such a test in the absence of an established > criterion variable. > > With thanks in advance for any help you can provide. > > > > Philip S. Dale, Professor > > Speech & Hearing Sciences > > University of New Mexico > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Info-CHILDES" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/6a5624286732400f9665bbad4976b658%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com > > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAM-t%2BDz12K3%3DzwzFvM7EwbxU_66nye04OBnge%3Dq0MJQVKJZPGQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dalep at unm.edu Tue Jun 10 17:10:10 2014 From: dalep at unm.edu (Philip Dale) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 17:10:10 +0000 Subject: phonological awareness measures In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks so much, Lynn. This may prove very useful. Philip ________________________________ From: info-childes at googlegroups.com on behalf of Lynn Santelmann Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 10:39 AM To: info-childes at googlegroups.com Subject: Re: phonological awareness measures Can you use something from one of the other Scandinavian languages? Illinois Test of Psycholinguistic Abilities (adapted for Swedish - some years ago - it's got some phonological awareness, but just missing segments, if I remember correctly). Since this was originally an English-language test, this might help. http://www.hogrefe.se/sv/Skola/Las--skriv--och-matematikdiagnostik/Individuella-diagnoser/ITPA-3/ There is also a phonological awareness test for Swedish. I know nothing of it other than it's put out by the same people who publish the Swedish version of the ITPA. MiniDUVAN http://www.hogrefe.se/Skola/Las--skriv--och-matematikdiagnostik/Individuella-diagnoser/Mini-DUVAN/ - includes identification of sounds, segmentation/synthesis, manipulation och representation. Aimed at 4-6 year olds. There's a plain DUVAN for school aged children and adults. I suspect there must be something for Norwegian as well, but my pan-Scandinavian searching skills are weak. Lynn Santelmann Associate Professor Applied Linguistics Portland State University On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Philip Dale > wrote: I'm wondering if there are any phonological awareness tests that have been adapted to languages other than the original one, with success in terms of validity. A group of researchers at the University of Southern Denmark has developed a comprehensive test of Danish for children between 3 and 7, and is now norming and validating the measure. Validating the phonological awareness portion of the measure is particularly challenging, as we are not aware of a normed and validated measure of phonological awareness in Danish to use as the criterion variable. One possibility would be to adapt an existing measure to Danish for this purpose, but it would be reassuring to know that the test has been previously adapted for other languages. Alternatively, we would be interested in suggestions of other procedures for validating such a test in the absence of an established criterion variable. With thanks in advance for any help you can provide. Philip S. Dale, Professor Speech & Hearing Sciences University of New Mexico -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/6a5624286732400f9665bbad4976b658%40BN1PR07MB326.namprd07.prod.outlook.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAM-t%2BDz12K3%3DzwzFvM7EwbxU_66nye04OBnge%3Dq0MJQVKJZPGQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1402420209763.9354%40unm.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From macw at cmu.edu Tue Jun 10 18:47:16 2014 From: macw at cmu.edu (Brian MacWhinney) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 20:47:16 +0200 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Peter, Peter, Thanks for keeping this thread alive. It appears that the relation of chunking to the L2 idiom comprehension issue can be seen as the tip of a fairly fascinating (and sometimes dangerous) iceberg. The danger I am thinking about is the idea that a given population (children, L2, aphasics, Williams Syndrome) relies differentially on chunking. What are my concerns? They arise from a consideration of the multiplicity of the factors involved here: 1. There was a discussion in the 1990s about "the importance of starting small" based on Jeff Elman's simulations stimulated by Elissa Newport's analyses. On a computational level, Rohde and Plaut (1999) reported problems replicating Elman's analyses. On a conceptual level, I was worried that this theory generated the prediction that learners with the smallest working memories would learn language faster. On an observational level, there was the literature from Peters, MacWhinney, Vihman, and others emphasizing the idea that children often picked up large chunks or amalgams which they later subjected to analysis. 2. There is a literature in SLA that emphasizes the role of big chunks. This idea aligns well with the less is more notion in some regards, but it has its own problems. The classic here is Pawley and Snyder (1983) which pointed to the ways that second language learners use frames productively. More recently, Ellis has emphasized the role of chunks in second language learning. It is clear that both L2 and L1 learners use automatized frames such as "I would like to have a ___" . But these stretches can also be analyzed by both L1 and L2 learners. So, is there a fundamental difference here? 3. There are important effects of levels of analysis for phonology. As Marilyn notes, once children have acquired a phonological system, they can use this to analyze words segmentally. Eventually, the rise of phonological awareness and morphological awareness shows how extracted units can break up chunks. Sapir observed this too in his paper on the psychological reality of the phoneme. 4. As Diana Van Lanckner Sidtis and others have shown so clearly, the brain provides right hemisphere storage for formulaic language and for intonational packaging. Lesions to the RH lead to problems with intonation, whereas people with nearly global LH damage may still have some formulas encoded in the RH or perhaps the basal ganglia. However, whether or not this impacts normal populations differentially is unclear. 5. Michael Ullman notes that estrogen supports declarative memory, whereas basal ganglia processes support procedural memory. If we want to associate chunking with proceduralization, then there could be some hormonal basis for sex differences. However, both men and women produce estrogen - probably enough to keep declarative memory functioning. 6. People like Paradis have argued that older learners cannot proceduralize, but Avi Karni has shown that even senior citizens can consolidate procedural memories if they are allowed to take a short nap. In any case, do we want to argue that older L2 learners do more chunking (i.e. proceduralization) or less and for what? 7. A major problem involves the level on which we want to envision chunking occurring. Are we talking only about strings of specific lexical items or would be treat constructions as chunks and would we want to claim that they are differentially impacted for different learner groups? 8. And then there is the issue of the status of compounds and derivational morphology. Are these chunks or analyzed? Can't they be both? 9. It could be that L2 learners use more chunking than L1 learners, given their possibly greater working memory (Halford, Halpern and others), it is imaginable that they can store large pieces. But we also know that they often fail to store word groups as well as L1 learners, perhaps because of their excessive use of analysis during comprehension. For example, they may tend to learn German nouns without linking them tightly to complete nominal phrases including the determiners and adjectives that encode their gender and case. There is a huge SLA literature on this topic. 10. Marilyn Nippold has studied idiom comprehension mostly with older children, and I have only read a few of her many papers, but it is clear that idiom comprehension is not complete during early childhood. As she noted in her posting, this places some limits on how we want to think about young children's ability to just pick up formulaic language automatically. Of course, a lot of this can be influenced by literacy, input, and so on. 11. An then there is the issue of really big chunks such as Homer's memory for the Iliad or the German girl who can give you the sentence before and after any given sentence from Goethe. Does this type of chunking have anything to do with all the other types mentioned above? Glancing across this complex territory, it seems to me that one should be careful about imagining that, in general, L2 learners use more chunking than L1 learners and therefore learn idioms more quickly. Given their possibly greater working memory (Halford, Halpern, and others), it is imaginable that they can store large pieces, but probably these are also analysed. So, when we come to the issue of learning idioms and other frozen forms of the type described by Wray, do we want to think of these as chunks or as non-compositional groupings of independent lexical items? And if we actually get solid data pointing to any population differences, do we then have evidence to attribute this to neurology, as opposed to language support? And do we want to differentiate any of these possible differences in terms of whether the chunking applies to phonology, lexicon, morphology, syntax, speech acts, or conversational patterns? The theories of L1, L2, and language disorders all need to deal with these issues, but in doing so, they will need to break up the concept of "chunking" into the many pieces and dimensions of which it is composed. And they will need richer longitudinal data to study the development of chunking and analysis across all of these linguistic levels and structures in greater detail. -- Brian MacWhinney -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/268B2D6A-560F-48A6-8B9D-40A953ED86C0%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From nippold at uoregon.edu Tue Jun 10 21:59:33 2014 From: nippold at uoregon.edu (Marilyn Nippold) Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:59:33 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners In-Reply-To: <268B2D6A-560F-48A6-8B9D-40A953ED86C0@cmu.edu> Message-ID: Brian, Peter, Phillip, and Keith, Thanks for your comments. This is indeed an interesting discussion... One thing to keep in mind is that all idioms are not alike. Some are more transparent and analyzable than others. The transparent ones generally are easier to understand than the opaque ones. With transparent idioms (e.g., paddle your own canoe, throw to the wolves, take someone under your wing), the non-literal meaning is actually a metaphorical extension of the literal meaning. So understanding the literal meaning actually helps you understand the non-literal meaning. In contrast, other idioms are more opaque (e.g., lead with one's chin, talk through one's hat, vote with one's feet). These are generally more difficult for children, adolescents, and adults to understand because the learner cannot easily perform the internal analysis. The learner then is forced to examine the linguistic context (external analysis) for clues to meaning. Research with English-speaking children and adolescents shows that transparent idioms are easier to understand than opaque, but that context clues can help one to learn/infer the nonliteral meanings. Of course, familiarity can override the effects of opacity. For example, even a 5-year-old will understand an opaque idiom (e.g., "They're pulling up stakes") if it's used frequently in the child's environment in meaningful contexts (people in the neighborhood often move). It might be interesting to run these same experiments with L2 learners of different ages. Maybe someone has already done this. I don't know. But I would predict similar patterns would occur with L2 learners as with L1 learners. All languages have figurative expressions that have to be understood. It's also worth mentioning that opacity is a relative concept, because language is always changing. To illustrate, when the now-opaque expression "lead with one's chin" came into the English language as an idiom, it likely was transparent because it referred to an aggressive boxer who bravely stuck his chin out (literally), taking little care to protect himself from his opponent in the ring. Knowing the original context of this idiom suddenly makes it transparent, and one can appreciate its meaning upon hearing the following comment: "Jeremy (who is not afraid to express his left-wing political views) leads with his chin, even at his aunt's tea party!" Marilyn Nippold -----Original Message----- From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Brian MacWhinney Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 11:47 AM To: CHILDES Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in L2 learners Peter, Peter, Thanks for keeping this thread alive. It appears that the relation of chunking to the L2 idiom comprehension issue can be seen as the tip of a fairly fascinating (and sometimes dangerous) iceberg. The danger I am thinking about is the idea that a given population (children, L2, aphasics, Williams Syndrome) relies differentially on chunking. What are my concerns? They arise from a consideration of the multiplicity of the factors involved here: 1. There was a discussion in the 1990s about "the importance of starting small" based on Jeff Elman's simulations stimulated by Elissa Newport's analyses. On a computational level, Rohde and Plaut (1999) reported problems replicating Elman's analyses. On a conceptual level, I was worried that this theory generated the prediction that learners with the smallest working memories would learn language faster. On an observational level, there was the literature from Peters, MacWhinney, Vihman, and others emphasizing the idea that children often picked up large chunks or amalgams which they later subjected to analysis. 2. There is a literature in SLA that emphasizes the role of big chunks. This idea aligns well with the less is more notion in some regards, but it has its own problems. The classic here is Pawley and Snyder (1983) which pointed to the ways that second language learners use frames productively. More recently, Ellis has emphasized the role of chunks in second language learning. It is clear that both L2 and L1 learners use automatized frames such as "I would like to have a ___" . But these stretches can also be analyzed by both L1 and L2 learners. So, is there a fundamental difference here? 3. There are important effects of levels of analysis for phonology. As Marilyn notes, once children have acquired a phonological system, they can use this to analyze words segmentally. Eventually, the rise of phonological awareness and morphological awareness shows how extracted units can break up chunks. Sapir observed this too in his paper on the psychological reality of the phoneme. 4. As Diana Van Lanckner Sidtis and others have shown so clearly, the brain provides right hemisphere storage for formulaic language and for intonational packaging. Lesions to the RH lead to problems with intonation, whereas people with nearly global LH damage may still have some formulas encoded in the RH or perhaps the basal ganglia. However, whether or not this impacts normal populations differentially is unclear. 5. Michael Ullman notes that estrogen supports declarative memory, whereas basal ganglia processes support procedural memory. If we want to associate chunking with proceduralization, then there could be some hormonal basis for sex differences. However, both men and women produce estrogen - probably enough to keep declarative memory functioning. 6. People like Paradis have argued that older learners cannot proceduralize, but Avi Karni has shown that even senior citizens can consolidate procedural memories if they are allowed to take a short nap. In any case, do we want to argue that older L2 learners do more chunking (i.e. proceduralization) or less and for what? 7. A major problem involves the level on which we want to envision chunking occurring. Are we talking only about strings of specific lexical items or would be treat constructions as chunks and would we want to claim that they are differentially impacted for different learner groups? 8. And then there is the issue of the status of compounds and derivational morphology. Are these chunks or analyzed? Can't they be both? 9. It could be that L2 learners use more chunking than L1 learners, given their possibly greater working memory (Halford, Halpern and others), it is imaginable that they can store large pieces. But we also know that they often fail to store word groups as well as L1 learners, perhaps because of their excessive use of analysis during comprehension. For example, they may tend to learn German nouns without linking them tightly to complete nominal phrases including the determiners and adjectives that encode their gender and case. There is a huge SLA literature on this topic. 10. Marilyn Nippold has studied idiom comprehension mostly with older children, and I have only read a few of her many papers, but it is clear that idiom comprehension is not complete during early childhood. As she noted in her posting, this places some limits on how we want to think about young children's ability to just pick up formulaic language automatically. Of course, a lot of this can be influenced by literacy, input, and so on. 11. An then there is the issue of really big chunks such as Homer's memory for the Iliad or the German girl who can give you the sentence before and after any given sentence from Goethe. Does this type of chunking have anything to do with all the other types mentioned above? Glancing across this complex territory, it seems to me that one should be careful about imagining that, in general, L2 learners use more chunking than L1 learners and therefore learn idioms more quickly. Given their possibly greater working memory (Halford, Halpern, and others), it is imaginable that they can store large pieces, but probably these are also analysed. So, when we come to the issue of learning idioms and other frozen forms of the type described by Wray, do we want to think of these as chunks or as non-compositional groupings of independent lexical items? And if we actually get solid data pointing to any population differences, do we then have evidence to attribute this to neurology, as opposed to language support? And do we want to differentiate any of these possible differences in terms of whether the chunking applies to phonology, lexicon, morphology, syntax, speech acts, or conversational patterns? The theories of L1, L2, and language disorders all need to deal with these issues, but in doing so, they will need to break up the concept of "chunking" into the many pieces and dimensions of which it is composed. And they will need richer longitudinal data to study the development of chunking and analysis across all of these linguistic levels and structures in greater detail. -- Brian MacWhinney -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/268B2D6A-560F-48A6-8B9D-40A95 3ED86C0%40cmu.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/007501cf84f7%2443ae2af0%24cb0a80d0%24%40uoregon.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de Wed Jun 11 13:32:25 2014 From: tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de (Tom Fritzsche) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:32:25 +0200 Subject: Post-Doc & PhD positions in Potsdam, Germany: Pragmatic information during language acquisition & processing Message-ID: Dear colleagues, attached is the announcement for 1 Post-Doc and up to 2 PhD position within a research project on common ground and contrastive information in children?s and adults? reference resolution funded by the DFG as part of the Priority Programme "XPrag.de: New Pragmatic Theories based on Experimental Evidence". For more details see the PDF. Best, Tom --- Tom Fritzsche University of Potsdam Department of Linguistics Karl-Liebknecht-Stra?e 24-25 14476 Potsdam Germany office: 14.140 phone: +49 331 977 2296 fax: +49 331 977 2095 e-mail: tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de web: www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~fritzsche -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAGLQsKdC3nazDXrnWZ2pQuz%3DEj9X6sbq2_%3DAnzaJ5Xwpzyg0Pw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. From tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de Wed Jun 11 13:37:24 2014 From: tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de (Tom Fritzsche) Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:37:24 +0200 Subject: Post-Doc & PhD positions in Potsdam, Germany: Pragmatic information ... [with attachment] Message-ID: Dear colleagues, attached is the announcement for 1 Post-Doc and up to 2 PhD position within a research project on common ground and contrastive information in children?s and adults? reference resolution funded by the DFG as part of the Priority Programme "XPrag.de: New Pragmatic Theories based on Experimental Evidence". For more details see the PDF. Best, Tom --- Tom Fritzsche University of Potsdam Department of Linguistics Karl-Liebknecht-Stra?e 24-25 14476 Potsdam Germany office: 14.140 phone: +49 331 977 2296 fax: +49 331 977 2095 e-mail: tom.fritzsche at uni-potsdam.de web: www.ling.uni-potsdam.de/~fritzsche -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAGLQsKefkwKkt-3nVKyDN3Hr4uriN%3DmW4%3DhTS_wrWEh4xp7jUA%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Advertisment Positions XPrag Hoehle Wartenburger.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 93931 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danielle.matthews at sheffield.ac.uk Tue Jun 17 10:40:43 2014 From: danielle.matthews at sheffield.ac.uk (Danielle Matthews) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 11:40:43 +0100 Subject: RefNet Workshop on Psychological and Computational Models of Reference Comprehension and Production Message-ID: RefNet Workshop on Psychological and Computational Models of Reference Comprehension and Production Sunday 31 Aug 2014, School of Informatics, University of Edinburgh, UK http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/InteractionLab/refnet/ ***New Submission Deadline: Monday 23rd June*** Submissions: Selection of posters and oral presentations will be based on 500-1000 word abstracts including references. Abstracts, in PDF format, should be submitted via the workshop website: http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/InteractionLab/refnet/submission.html. Each abstract will be reviewed anonymously, so please include a title but not authors. Revised versions of accepted abstracts will be posted on the RefNet page. There will be no printed proceedings. Invited speakers: Michael K. Tanenhaus, University of Rochester Kees van Deemter, University of Aberdeen Programme Committee: Ellen Gurman Bard, Holly Branigan, Sarah Brown-Schmidt, Arash Eshghi, Kumiko Fukumura, Simon Garrod, Albert Gatt, Marcus Guhe, Pat Healey, William S. Horton, Julian Hough, Christine Howes, Srinivasan Janarthanam, Emiel Krahmer, Danielle Matthews, Gregory Mills, Paul Piwek, Ehud Reiter, Matthew Stone, Marc Swerts, Roger van Gompel, Kees van Deemter Note: The workshop is collocated with the RefNet summer school Psychological and Computational Models of Language Production (24-31 August, Edinburgh) ( http://homepages.abdn.ac.uk/k.vdeemter/pages/RefNet/events.html), but it will be open to anyone, regardless of whether they take part in the summer school. Both the workshop and the summer school are part of RefNet, a research network funded by the UK's EPSRC. Organisers: Arash Eshghi (eshghi.a at gmail.com), Kumiko Fukumura ( kumiko.fukumura at strath.ac.uk), Srinivasan Janarthanam ( srinivasancj at gmail.com) -- Danielle Matthews Department of Psychology University of Sheffield Sheffield S10 2TP Tel: 00 44 114 222 6548 http://www.shef.ac.uk/psychology/staff/academic/danielle-matthews -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAH4d6uLWBXEK%2BSsZ%3DOT-KnfKqs6D1UuV2J6vEM_dCD7DcSqSSw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From caseylw at princeton.edu Tue Jun 17 19:29:45 2014 From: caseylw at princeton.edu (Casey Lew-Williams) Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 14:29:45 -0500 Subject: Lab manager position at Princeton University Message-ID: *Position Summary:* The Department of Psychology at Princeton University is seeking a full-time research specialist (i.e., lab manager/coordinator), under the supervision of Dr. Casey Lew-Williams. The successful candidate will work in the newly formed Princeton Baby Lab, and have frequent contact with co-director Dr. Lauren Emberson. Start date is negotiable, but will ideally be either December 1, 2014 or January 1, 2015. The research specialist will participate in all aspects of projects on language learning in diverse groups of infants and young children, including typically developing children, Spanish/English bilingual children, and children with communication delays or disorders. Primary responsibilities will include: (1) developing stimuli for experiments, (2) testing infants and young children in various language research techniques, (3) coordinating participant recruitment in Princeton, NJ and Trenton, NJ, (4) mentoring undergraduates, and (5) setting up and maintaining operations of the lab through general administrative duties. *Essential qualifications:* - Have a demonstrated interest in cognitive science - Get along well with other people - Have excellent communication skills with young children and families - Be able to write clearly for any audience - Be able to get tasks done efficiently - Be detail-oriented, motivated, creative, organized, and able to work independently. - Bachelor's degree in psychology, linguistics, communication sciences and disorders, or related cognitive science fields. - The final candidate must successfully pass a background check. *Preferred qualifications:* - Experience with eye-tracking methods - Experience with SPSS, R, Excel, or other statistical software - Experience with Photoshop and audio/video editing programs - Fluent Spanish speaker (desired, but by no means required) This is a one-year appointment with the possibility of renewal, pending satisfactory performance and funding availability. Please apply for position number 1400373 at https://jobs.princeton.edu. Include a cover letter describing your research experiences and career goals, CV, and contact information for two references. For more information, please email Casey Lew-Williams (caseylw at princeton.edu). Applications will be reviewed immediately, and review will continue until the hiring process is complete. Thanks! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAPbgNA1yAsRXn_5r0jv65k6LYga_u9B1MMLA-1exJGp2QTrBeQ%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carla.contemori at gmail.com Fri Jun 20 20:57:32 2014 From: carla.contemori at gmail.com (carla contemori) Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 16:57:32 -0400 Subject: New MA Program in Linguistics and Cognitive Studies Message-ID: Dear colleagues Please find attached information about a new MA Program in Linguistics and Cognitive Studies at the University of Siena (Italy). Thanks, Carla Contemori Ph.D. Postdoctoral research associate Department of Psychology Pennsylvania State University 111 Moore Building University Park, PA 16802 USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CAJiMJpnTDH1_65O5RDuehXiTKF%3Dzn-oW3xbXE_MUSGwn3WoW3A%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: LM39.2014-15.Leaflet.fin (1).pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 252906 bytes Desc: not available URL: From huysal9 at gmail.com Mon Jun 23 07:24:49 2014 From: huysal9 at gmail.com (huysal9 at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:24:49 -0700 Subject: Idiom comprehension in child language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi all, Is there a software widely used in psycholinguistic research to draw pictures for sentence-picture matching tasks? Besides, I need another software compatible with touch-screen tablet for a comprehension task, and it is supposed to record reaction time and accuracy of the answers. Peace, Huseyin On Thursday, June 5, 2014 6:44:06 PM UTC+3, Nelson, Keith wrote: > > Hi all. I m attaching a JCL paper just out from our lab that reviews lit > and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith > > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper > wrote: > >> Hi folks-- >> >> just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard: >> "I know a shortcut" >> "well, I know a shorter cut" >> and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke". >> >> I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears >> in the volume for J?regen Weisenborn by Mouton--it >> relates to complex sentences. >> >> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent >> to children's comprehension of them. A child with >> a stomache who said" >> "there's a fireengine in my stomach" >> or a child with a stuffed nose who said: >> "there's paint in my nose". >> >> Deviations from compositionality can still be logically >> motivated. >> >> Tom Roeper >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ?ZCAN > > wrote: >> >>> Dear H?seyin, >>> >>> (I answer all of the questions you posed me personally here thinking >>> that other colleagues might want to comment on them as well) >>> >>> ? (Concerning your question about the location of data >>> collection) The location you are going to collect the data depends >>> totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her student >>> (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as ?prototype words?; >>> watermelon which is found to be 8th item on the list in Ankara may be >>> the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the first in Mediterranean >>> Region, if you are going to construct your sentences depending on their >>> list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic and a common sense of >>> prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of prototypicalities >>> overlap to the sufficient extent. >>> >>> ? One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I understood, you >>> assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the framework of >>> compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger linguistic >>> unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element the >>> whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it >>> comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality >>> Theory has been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of >>> pragmatics in the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions. >>> >>> ? Another thing to concentrate on may be the prototypicality of >>> the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions) itself rather >>> than the expressions? containing prototypical elements. You know, *some >>> birds are birder than other birds*. Some idiomatic expressions may have >>> some prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities. >>> >>> ? Integrating infant directed speech to this study would be too >>> much to my understanding. You will have to carry out longitudinal >>> observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions >>> or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. >>> >>> I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your demanding >>> study. Good luck in all ways. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, huy... at gmail.com wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my >>>> first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts). >>>> >>>> I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is >>>> the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child >>>> language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps >>>> for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the >>>> literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive >>>> chapter by Gibbs and Colston in http://www.sciencedirect.com/ >>>> science/book/9780123693747). So my questions are as follows: >>>> >>>> - What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child >>>> language? >>>> - Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, >>>> or more generally figurative language? >>>> - Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design? >>>> - What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in >>>> idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism >>>> or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another >>>> perspective.) >>>> - A third research field having just popped into my mind is child >>>> directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Huseyin >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com . >>> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com >>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cba5fc2d-d155-4a50-89bb-ce7d2f493fa9%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> . >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Tom Roeper >> Dept of Lingiustics >> UMass South College >> Amherst, Mass. 01003 ISA >> 413 256 0390 >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Info-CHILDES" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to info-childes... at googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to info-c... at googlegroups.com >> . >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABkofSn550WquFGtxa0datgcVSXvN4RN2-aTVHEfzir_aTo9jA%40mail.gmail.com >> >> . >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/7a794138-640e-48ff-806a-5b6efe4694db%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ktmesseng at gmail.com Mon Jun 23 10:13:52 2014 From: ktmesseng at gmail.com (Katherine Messenger) Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 03:13:52 -0700 Subject: Assistant/Associate Professorship in Psychology of Language at University of Warwick Message-ID: The Psychology department at the University of Warwick is seeking to appoint an Assistant or Associate Professor within the Language and Learning Research Group. For further information about the positions, please see: http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AJA204/assistant-professor-71076-064/ http://www.jobs.ac.uk/job/AJA249/associate-professor-71076-064/ The closing date for applications is 21st July 2014. For further information about the group, please see: http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/fac/sci/psych/research/language/ Apologies for cross-postings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/cc3ee21a-e1a0-4ddb-9ee5-6349cf9b6ee3%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james_morgan at brown.edu Tue Jun 24 21:42:10 2014 From: james_morgan at brown.edu (Morgan, James) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 17:42:10 -0400 Subject: Two year visiting Assistant Professor position in Linguistics/Language Processing Message-ID: Please note: the position description does not exclude acquisition! The Brown University Departm ent of Cognitive, Linguistic and Psychological Sciences announces a 2 year Visiting position at the Assistant Professor level in Linguistics/Language Processing at or above the word level, beginning September 1, 2014 or January 1, 2015. This includes syntactic, lexical, semantic, and/or pragmatic (including discourse) processing. Qualifications Expertise at the intersection of theoretical and experimental approaches is expected, and the successful candidate will be able to teach, conduct and supervise experimental research engaging theoretical issues in linguistics and cognitive science of language. Applicants should be able to teach both introductory courses and advanced courses in language processing and psycholinguistics. While not required, ability and willingness to teach an introductory course in syntax is highly desirable. Application Instructions Applications will be considered on a rolling basis, starting July 8, until the position is filled. Curriculum vitae, reprints and preprints of publications, a maximum two-page statement of research and teaching interests, and three letters of reference should be submitted at . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/CABmr1p8t0Arkm2CZK%2BM8Mih3hwfVNq_1%3Dou%3DH_hp%3D%3D6acpGUWw%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From c.c.levelt at hum.leidenuniv.nl Wed Jun 25 18:21:38 2014 From: c.c.levelt at hum.leidenuniv.nl (c.c.levelt) Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 11:21:38 -0700 Subject: Full-time professorship in Second Language Acquisition, Leiden University Message-ID: Leiden University is looking for a full-time professor in Second Language Acquisition. Please check out: http://werkenbij.leidenuniv.nl/vacatures/wetenschappelijke-functies/14-161-full-professorship-in-second-language-acquisition-.html -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/27201bfc-b5e1-4826-80e9-c37cb20ef4ee%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From huberpak at gmail.com Thu Jun 26 18:55:01 2014 From: huberpak at gmail.com (huberpak at gmail.com) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:55:01 -0700 Subject: English V-schwa alternations in children's speech Message-ID: Hi, I've noticed some interesting 'hypercorrection'-type errors, both in my own kid's speech and in the CHILDES corpora, with English V~schwa alternations. Examples: Edison is [i]llergic to eggs. I don't want a el[o]phant. Does anyone know of previous work on this? Any information, references, observations, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks - Marjorie Marjorie Pak, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer, Program in Linguistics Emory University mgpak at emory.edu www.linguistics.emory.edu www.marjoriepak.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1843c13f-792f-4620-af6e-bc94c6f17a9e%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lise.menn at Colorado.EDU Thu Jun 26 19:08:56 2014 From: lise.menn at Colorado.EDU (Lise Menn) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 13:08:56 -0600 Subject: English V-schwa alternations in children's speech In-Reply-To: <1843c13f-792f-4620-af6e-bc94c6f17a9e@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: I observed two of them in my older son - have probably mentioned them in print somewhere? - 'thesis' as /??is?s/ and 'raisins' as /?r??z?nz/, both with very clear low vowels, not schwas, in the second syllable; also, incorrectly undoing the d/t neutralization to flap, he said 'recorder' as /ri?k?rtr/ at about this time. Lise Menn On Jun 26, 2014, at 12:55 PM, > > wrote: Hi, I've noticed some interesting 'hypercorrection'-type errors, both in my own kid's speech and in the CHILDES corpora, with English V~schwa alternations. Examples: Edison is [i]llergic to eggs. I don't want a el[o]phant. Does anyone know of previous work on this? Any information, references, observations, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks - Marjorie Marjorie Pak, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer, Program in Linguistics Emory University mgpak at emory.edu www.linguistics.emory.edu www.marjoriepak.com Lise Menn Home Office: 303-444-4274 1625 Mariposa Ave Boulder CO 80302 home page: http://spot.colorado.edu/~menn/ Professor Emerita of Linguistics Fellow, Institute of Cognitive Science University of Colorado Fellow, Linguistic Society of America -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/EAD1EC99-17B5-4D29-AFED-C37BC23E9594%40colorado.edu. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From C.C.Levelt at hum.leidenuniv.nl Thu Jun 26 20:38:55 2014 From: C.C.Levelt at hum.leidenuniv.nl (Levelt, C.C.) Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 20:38:55 +0000 Subject: English V-schwa alternations in children's speech In-Reply-To: <1843c13f-792f-4620-af6e-bc94c6f17a9e@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: Here's a paper on schwas being produced as full vowels in Dutch child language: Levelt, C. (2008). Phonology and phonetics in the development of schwa in Dutch child language. Lingua 118, 9,1344-1361. Claartje On Jun 26, 2014, at 8:55 PM, > > wrote: Hi, I've noticed some interesting 'hypercorrection'-type errors, both in my own kid's speech and in the CHILDES corpora, with English V~schwa alternations. Examples: Edison is [i]llergic to eggs. I don't want a el[o]phant. Does anyone know of previous work on this? Any information, references, observations, etc. would be appreciated. Thanks - Marjorie Marjorie Pak, Ph.D. Senior Lecturer, Program in Linguistics Emory University mgpak at emory.edu www.linguistics.emory.edu www.marjoriepak.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/1843c13f-792f-4620-af6e-bc94c6f17a9e%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/A3417BC7-1046-42A7-8F7E-F01AB05E85E1%40hum.leidenuniv.nl. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sonja.eisenbeiss at googlemail.com Sun Jun 29 08:28:02 2014 From: sonja.eisenbeiss at googlemail.com (Sonja Eisenbeiss) Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 01:28:02 -0700 Subject: LECTURER IN PSYCHOLINGUISTICS, (CHILD LANGUAGE DEVELOPMENT), Essex Message-ID: The Department of Language and Linguistics at the University of Essex is seeking to appoint a lecturer with a background in linguistically-informed experimental research in child language development within the Psycholinguistics Research Group. For further information about the positions, please see: http://gs12.globalsuccessor.com/fe/tpl_essex01.asp?newms=jj&id=78361 The closing date for applications is 23 July 2014. For further information about the group, please see: http://psylingx.wordpress.com/ Apologies for cross-postings. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/06aa8ac9-6a1f-422d-a90c-c04edd738567%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From krohlfing at gmail.com Mon Jun 30 19:44:05 2014 From: krohlfing at gmail.com (Katharina Rohlfing) Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 12:44:05 -0700 Subject: Call for contributions: Panel on The development of iconic gestures (DGfS 2015 in Germany, Leipzig) Message-ID: Dear colleagues, we are soliciting contributions to our panel on "The development of iconic gestures and their role as resources for language acquisition" within the next DGfS (4th-6th March 2015 in Leipzig, Germany). The deadline is August 20th, 2014. Please see the detailed description below. Kind regards, Katharina Rohlfing & Friederike Kern -- PD Dr. Katharina J. Rohlfing Emergentist Semantics, CITEC Bielefeld University Prof. Dr. Friederike Kern Fak. f?r Linguistik und Literaturwissenschaft Universit?t Bielefeld, Postfach 10 01 31 33501 Bielefeld friederike.kern at uni-bielefeld.de PD Dr. Katharina J. Rohlfing Emergentist Semantics Group Universit?t Bielefeld, CITEC 33501 Bielefeld kjr at uni-bielefeld.de The development of iconic gestures as resources in language acquisition The use of gestures as resources for the construction of verbal actions has been a topic of interest in language acquisition for some time. Since pointing gestures are dominantly present in young children as well as in interaction with them, most studies focus on this type of gestures. Several studies look at forms and functions of young children?s pointing gestures, and their connection with cognitive and linguistic abilities. Others show how older children may profit from a specific, task- adapted use of gestures [1], or, how caretakers adapt their gestures with regard to frequency and type to the developmental status of the child [2]. Relatively little known is about the use and development of early iconic gestures and their involvement in language acquisition. Iconic gestures are referred to as ?representational? or ?symbolic?, and can be used in reference to absent objects or events. An important finding relates to children?s later vocabulary development, which seems to benefit from earlier use of iconic gestures: Children who used iconic gestures earlier in their development, had richer vocabularies in their later development. However, only few studies show when and in what way (i.e. exhibiting what forms) iconic gestures emerge [3]. Furthermore, the different forms that iconic gestures might exhibit have barely been considered in developmental approaches. In addition, it is not clear whether different forms of iconic gestures are linked to different types of verbal actions systematically. Our panel will thus address the following research questions: - Which aspects of objects are focused on, and how are they implemented in gestures (iconic mapping)? - How are the gestures integrated into the grammatical surface (grammatical mapping)? - How do different verbal actions affect the choice and use of iconic gestures (gestural mapping)? - Does the physical foundation and thus bodily involvement of self-experienced events lay grounds for the acquisition and situated use of iconic gestures (embodied learning)? Areas of interest: language acquisition, multimodal communication, pragmatics, semantics References [1] Goldin-Meadow, S., Cook, S. W., & Mitchell, Z. A. Gesturing gives children new ideas about math. Psychological Science, 2009, 20(3), 267-272 [2] Grimminger, A., Rohlfing, K. J. & Stenneken, P. (2010): Do mothers alter their pointing behavior in dependence of children?s lexical development and task-difficulty? Analysis of task- oriented gestural input towards typically developed children and Late Talkers. Gesture 10: 251? 278. [3] Vogt, S. & Schreiber, S. (2006): F?rderung von Gesten als Mitausl?ser der lautsprachlichen Entwicklung. Theoretische und praktische ?berlegungen f?r die logop?dische Arbeit. L.O.G.O.S. Interdiziplin?r 14: 179?185. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to info-childes at googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/49027690-b2bd-43cb-b495-1e70226d6dcc%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: