Help: let them speak or sign their language
Aliyah MORGENSTERN
aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com
Sun Mar 2 15:08:25 UTC 2014
Thanks a lot Keith!
In France not only is it dramatically difficult to convince the medical world, but sign language for Hearing parents is hardly financed. They have to be entirely convinced and become real militants to make the tremendous efforts needed. But as our last family visit proved to us, when they do make the effort, the results are just incredible, even she Sign language is introduced after 3.
Best,
Aliyah
Le 2 mars 2014 à 15:49, Keith Nelson a écrit :
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Keith Nelson <keithnelsonart at gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, Mar 2, 2014 at 8:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Help: let them speak or sign their language
> To: info-childes at googlegroups.com, Keith Nelson <keithnelsonart at gmail.com>, Mary Rudner <mary.rudner at liu.se>, Jerker Rönnberg <jerker.ronnberg at liu.se>, Mikael Heimann <mikael.heimann at liu.se>, "tomas.tjus at psy.gu.se" <tomas.tjus at psy.gu.se>, Philip Prinz <p1210 at yahoo.com>
>
>
> Hi Gisela, Roberta, and all. Lots of good updates and ideas in these threads. I would emphasize that it is very often the case that once the decision is made to include sign language there is not really enough attention to the needed combination of quantity and quality of interaction--and monitoring thereof-- to insure significant progress. In PA I have known families whose grand total support in a year for teaching sign language was one one-hour visit by an expert hired by the School District ! As background, some may find interesting the attached 2 chapters that cover what we describe in dynamic systems terms as Dynamic Tricky Mixes of conditions that need to converge for learning--as illustrated not only for sign but for spoken language, literacy, and art skill.
> Also, I am copying my Swedish and California colleagues who may have some interesting thoughts and updates on all this. Very best regards, Keith
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 1, 2014 at 4:06 AM, Gisela Szagun <gisela.szagun at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Dear Roberta,
>
> I think the paper by Lyness et al. (2013, attached) is helpful when evaluating the claim that sign may be hurtful to kids. There is quite a bit of evidence and argumentation for the reverse argument: withholding early language from the child is likely to have negative consequences. It seems to me that this is what happens if children with CI do not master spoken language sufficiently and sign language is withheld from them. So, we may equally ask the reverse question whether it was the withholding of sign language that was hurtful to these children?
>
> What happened in Germany, basically, was that the parents started asking this question, and, if you so want, empowered themselves to find a way to get a language to their children.
>
> From my point of view as a developmental, what has to be ensured is that a child builds up a symbolic system and that, in cases where spoken language acquisition does not succeed, not too much time is lost before sign language is offered. Unfortunately, there are too many cases - not presented at conferences because they are not a success story - where this has happened. The first priority is to prevent any more of that.
>
> Given the unpredictability of success in spoken language acquisition in a particular child with CI, some parents may want to be "on the safe side" and choose bilinguality from the beginning. I cannot see that a disadvantage of this strategy has been proven. The studies claiming harm from early signing do not convince me.
>
> This is the present state of affairs. Things may change and all the promises of very early implantation and improved implant technology may come true. I am not an expert on this. For the time being, I think we have to work with were we are now.
>
> Best wishes,
> Gisela
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Roberta Golinkoff <Roberta at udel.edu> wrote:
> I find your eloquent insights very helpful Gisela as I am struggling with this issue myself because of our local situation. It makes sense to have children become bilingual in sign and spoken language and recent research shows that it is useful to have it begin early, even before cochlear implants can occur (Davidson paper) as exposure to a symbolic system is important.
>
> I like the way you describe what takes place in Germany. There is no mention, in what you write, of turning off children's CI's to teach sign or of routinely offering CI kids the services of an SLP. For CIs to work, kids need massive language input to make up for the time when they had no input. The attached paper suggests that parental involvement of specific types makes a big difference in kids' outcomes and that families can be helped to provide the quality of language that children with CIs need.
>
> For people just breaking into this area, I attach a document that gives citations and that offers some "facts". However, in that document there is the claim - based on a presentation and not publications - that sign is hurtful to kids. I don't know this work and wonder if anyone does:
>
> Recent data indicates that introducing sign language prior to cochlear implantation does not enhance outcomes compared to emphasis on spoken language alone.
>
> Nittrouer, S. (2008). Outcomes for children with hearing loss: Effects of age of ID, sign support, and auditory prosthesis. A presentation to the National Early Hearing Detection and Intervention Conference, New Orleans, LA.
>
> Recent data indicates that use of sign language was detrimental for the development of spoken langauge for children identified with hearing loss after their first birthday. It further indicates that it is detrimental to the development of spoken language in the control group of typically hearing children.
>
> Nittrouer, S. (2008). Outcomes for children with hearing loss: Effects of age of ID, sign support, and auditory prosthesis. A presentation to the National Early Hearing Detection and Intervention Conference, New Orleans, LA.
>
> Thanks all for this great thread!
> Best, Roberta
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 4:39 AM, Gisela Szagun <gisela.szagun at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi Roberta,
>
> until recently it has been quite difficult in Germany for kids with CI to get bilingual/bimodal input. Let me explain a bit about how the system works in general - as I have experienced this as a researcher at Cochlear Implant Centers - and then say something about how bilinguality is dealt with now.
>
> Generally, the health system is very forthcoming with cochlear implantation, and children also receive excellent rehabilitation in specialized rehabilitation centers and in their home towns. This is not dependent on type of health insurance but is paid for by all insurances. All this is fine and health care is excellent.
>
> However, the 'official ideology' has been 'spoken language only'. This has been very much promoted by medical circles. At conferences evidence from 'star' children is presented, the rest seem to be ignored. Parents were (still are?) given vastly exaggerated positive views of what to expect of their children's spoken language development.This has been my experience between 1996 and 2006. However, I stopped going to such conferences because I simply could not bear it any longer. I have presented our evidence again and again stressing the enormous variability in outcomes and arguing that for some children it would be benefical to acquire sign language in order to have a functioning symbolic system at all (see my previous mail in this discussion).
>
> Then, things began to change. Parents began to notice that quite a few children do not fulfil these exaggerated pictures, that there was no point in waiting and waiting but that something had to be done. It was then that parents demanded either sign supported speech or sign language as part of their child's rehabilitation as well.
>
> To my knowledge, this is how this works at present: A teacher of sign language (or sign supported speech) visits the family at home and teaches the child and his/her parents. As such teaching is not part of the insurance paid rehabilitation programme, parents would have to pay. However, parents have fought for having the lessons paid for by social services by taking social services to court when they refused. I have myself written several expertises supporting parents' demands in court, and they have won. So, this means, it will become easier and easier to get these lessons free of costs for the parents.
>
> Another way is that parents send their child to a Kindergarten which is bilingual in sign and spoken language. However, such kindergartens do not exist in each town or village, and kindergarten education does not start until 3 years of age. Parents often wish for instruction in signed language earlier.
>
> All this goes on in individual cases. To my knowledge, there are no cochlear rehabilitation centres which offer bilinguality on a regular basis. Individual parents take the decision to want bilinguality for their child and they act upon it, either from the beginning or when they begin to have doubts about their child's spoken language development. There is a Federal Association for parents of hearing-impaired children. They give advice to parents, they have also invited me for talks and have asked me to act as an expert in child language acquisition in court hearings.
>
> It seems, parents were quicker than medicine to understand the importance of a symbolic system for a developing child and they have fought the case for their children - when the 'official medical view' has ducked. Whichever, the main thing is, it is happening.One can only hope that, soon, instruction in sign language or sign supported speech becomes available quite generally at the rehabilitation centers. The children cannot lose out!
>
> Best wishes,
> Gisela
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 1:39 AM, Roberta Golinkoff <Roberta at udel.edu> wrote:
> Gisela - just getting back to this thread which I find very illuminating. May I ask how you recommend kids get the bilingual input? Is there a way to do this simultaneously -- offering sign and oral input at the same time?
>
> Many thanks!
> Roberta
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 10:13 AM, Gisela Szagun <gisela.szagun at googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hi Aliyah,
>
> reading and feeling inspired by Ignazio's message, I would like to join this exchange somewhat belatedly. I would like to make two points regarding language development in children with CI and draw a conclusion as to why sign language may be useful for these children.
>
> 1) For some time now we have known that the development of spoken language in children with CI is characterized by an enormous variability. Individual children vary to an extent which is not observed in typical development (although variability is large there, as well). This holds irrespective of age at implantation. Children implanted before the age of 24 months may - as a group - have a slight advantage over children implanted thereafter, but they display the same variability. This also applies to children implanted in the first year of life.
>
> We do not know enough about the many different factors which influence the spoken language development of children with CI over time to make reliable predictions about outcomes at the time of implantation. Typically, only around 50% of the variance in outcomes is explained.
>
> 2) Studies which emphasize the effect of age at implantation claiming a linear relationship between age at implantation and progress in language according to "the earlier the better" typically have not controlled for all the other known factors influencing the children's language development. In particular, they have not looked at the influence of the children's linguistic environment/input. We found in one study that, if one looks at the relative influence of age at implantation (when this is between 6 and 34 months) and parental language input, the quality of parental language input explains a far greater proportion of the variance in outcomes than age at implantation:
>
> Szagun, G. & Stumper, B. (2012). Age or experience? The influence of age at implantation, social and linguistic environment on language development in children with cochlear implants. Journal of Speech, Language, and Hearing Research, 55, 1640-1654.
>
>
> In view of the uncertainty facing parents about their child's spoken language development, it seems wise to give the child the opportunity to grow up with signed and spoken language, if parents wish to choose this path. In my 15 years of research on spoken language development in children with CI in Germany I have seen too many children who at the age of five years still had not gone beyond two word utterances (despite early implantation). I have also seen many who were almost indistinguishable from children with typical language development at the age of four years. The point is: we cannot predict. Young children need a symbolic system. There should - and there does not have to be - a single child with only two word utterances at five years of age. The modality of this system is not of concern, but the lack of it is. Children with CI cannot lose out if they are bilingual/bimodal, but they can lose out severely if the development of a symbolic system is hampered. This is why, in my view, parents have every right to enable bilinguality for their children.
>
> Best wishes,
> Gisela
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:52 AM, Aliyah MORGENSTERN <aliyah.morgenstern at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you Denis!
> Best,
> Aliyah
> Le 10 déc. 2013 à 00:22, Denis Donovan a écrit :
>
>> Actually, 3 years may be VERY VERY late. Consider:
>>
>> Bergelson, Elika & Swingley, Daniel (2013). At 6–9 months, human infants know the meanings of many common nouns. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science. PNAS Early Edition, www.pnas.org/cgi/doi/10.1073/pnas.1113380109 and http://www.pnas.org/content/109/9/3253 (120913).
>>
>> Our findings indicate that native-language learning in the second half of the first year goes beyond the acquisition of sound structure. The fact that even 6- to 7-mo-olds learn words suggests that conceptual and linguistic categories may influence one an- other in development from the beginning (36) and that aspects of meaning are available to guide other linguistic inferences cur- rently thought to depend only on distributional analysis of pho- nological regularities (37, 38). Understanding word meaning could also support the acquisition of syntax by guiding infants’ inferences about how nouns and words from other word classes are placed in sentences. Precocious word learning also helps explain why hearing-impaired infants identified for fitting with cochlear implants before 6 mo reveal better language skills at 2 y than children identified just a few months later: 6-mo-olds who can hear are already learning words (39).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Denis Donovan
>>
>> Denis M. Donovan, M.D., M.Ed., F.A.P.S.
>> Director, EOCT Institute
>>
>> Medical Director, 1983 - 2006
>> The Children's Center for Developmental Psychiatry
>> St. Petersburg, Florida
>>
>> P.O Box 47576
>> St. Petersburg, FL 33743-7576
>> Phone: 727-641-8905
>> DenisDonovan at EOCT-Institute.org
>> dmdonovan1937 at gmail.com
>>
>>
>> On Dec 9, 2013, at 3:32 PM, Aliyah MORGENSTERN wrote:
>>
>>> thanks a lot!
>>> Le 9 déc. 2013 à 13:45, Isa Barriere a écrit :
>>>
>>>> Salut Aliyah,
>>>>
>>>> Here you are:
>>>>
>>>> deborah.pichler at gallaudet.edu
>>>>
>>>> Isabelle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 10:31 PM, Isa Barriere <barriere.isa at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Deb Chen Pichler/Gallaudet presented a co-authored paper at BU this year that speaks to this issue:
>>>>
>>>> Spoken language development in native signing children with cochlear implants
>>>>
>>>> K. Davidson, D. Lillo-Martin, D. Chen Pichler
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Their results show that children exposed to ASL from birth do not suffer from lg and cognitive delay observed in children with CI without ASL exposure.
>>>>
>>>> Isabelle Barriere, PhD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Erika Hoff <erikachoff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>> I am replying by repeating what deaf acquaintances of mine have said to me. To wit, If you are deaf you should learn sign because
>>>>
>>>> (a) when you take your implant off to swim, shower, etc. you are deaf.
>>>> (b) someday you may have an infection or something may happen so that your cochlear implant will not work or be tolerable, and then you will be deaf.
>>>> (c) cochlear implants have variable outcomes. Simultaneous sign may help when the auditory signal doesn't quite do it.
>>>>
>>>> Erika Hoff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 8, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Roberta Golinkoff <Roberta at udel.edu> wrote:
>>>> Hi Aliyah!
>>>>
>>>> Sorry to be late in joining the party!
>>>>
>>>> For your first question, here are 3 papers that make the clear case that the earlier the implantation for deaf kids the better. If implantation is done early, the use of sign may become moot -- children are also offered therapy. However, if implantation is done later, it would seem clear that they should be offered sign ASAP. I have no trouble with the notion of bilingual-bimodal as long as kids are flooded with oral input and not told to turn off their devices, a practice I have heard of.
>>>>
>>>> For your second questions, there will be an SRCD Social Policy report:
>>>>
>>>> McCabe, A., Tamis-LeMonda, C.S., Bornstein, M. H., Cates, D. B., Golinkoff, R. M., Hirsh-Pasek, K., Hoff, E., Kuchirko, Y., Melzi, G., Mendelsohn, A., Paez, M., Song, L, & Guerra, A. W. (In press). Multilingual children: Beyond myths and towards best practices. Social Policy Report, Society for Research in Child Development. It will hopefully come out early in 2014.
>>>>
>>>> We addressed four questions:
>>>>
>>>> 1. What are the broad social and historical contexts of multilingual learners in the United States?
>>>>
>>>> 2. What does a multilingual family look like?
>>>>
>>>> 3. What lessons learned with monolingual children can be applied to multilingual children?
>>>>
>>>> 4. What contexts support learning multiple languages?
>>>>
>>>> I think this will be very helpful to you Aliyah, when it emerges.
>>>>
>>>> All best and happy holidays to you and all my other language friends!
>>>> Roberta
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 9:16 PM, Eileen Graf <eileen.graf at googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>> Dear Aliyah,
>>>>
>>>> You might find these helpful:
>>>>
>>>> [1] Place, Silvia & Hoff, Erika (2011). Properties of Dual Language Exposure That Influence 2-Year-Olds’ Bilingual Proficiency. Child Development:
>>>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-8624.2011.01660.x/abstract
>>>>
>>>> [2] Davidson, Kathryn, Lillo-Martin, Diane & Chen Pichler (in press). Spoken English language measures of native signing children with cochlear implants. Journal of Deaf Studies and Deaf Education.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Eileen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 26 November 2013 15:01, Marinova-Todd, Stefka <stefka at audiospeech.ubc.ca> wrote:
>>>> Dear Aliyah,
>>>>
>>>> I am not aware of papers that speak to your first question, i.e., sign language, although there are probably some.
>>>>
>>>> Regarding your second question, there are a few, mostly qualitative studies done on the effect (usually negative) of the recommendation by professionals to parents of bilingual children with autism to speak only one language (usually English in the North American context):
>>>>
>>>> 1) Jegatheesan, B. (2011). Multilingual development in children with autism: Perspectives of South Asian Muslim immigrant parents on raising a child with a communicative disorder in multilingual contexts. Bilingual Research Journal, 34, 185-200.
>>>>
>>>> 2) Kay‐Raining Bird, E., Lamond, E., & Holden, J. (2012). Survey of bilingualism in autism spectrum disorders. International Journal of Language & Communication Disorders, 47, 52-64.
>>>>
>>>> 3) Kremer-Sadlik, T. (2005). To be or not to be bilingual: Autistic children from multilingual families. In J. Cohen, K. T. McAlister, K. Rolstad, & J. MacSwan (Eds.), Proceedings of the 4th International Symposium on Bilingualism (pp. 1225-1234). Somerville, MA: Cascadilla Press.
>>>>
>>>> 4) Yu, B. (2013). Issues in bilingualism and heritage language maintenance: Perspectives of minority-language mothers of children with autism spectrum disorders. American Journal of Speech-Language Pathology, 22, 10-24.
>>>>
>>>> I hope those are of use to you.
>>>> Best,
>>>> Stefka
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: info-childes at googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes at googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Aliyah MORGENSTERN
>>>> Sent: November 26, 2013 1:55 PM
>>>> To: info-childes at googlegroups.com
>>>> Subject: Help: let them speak or sign their language
>>>>
>>>> Dear info-childes,
>>>> I need to find good scientific proof it you think it is relevant and exists that
>>>> 1) it is better for deaf children (even if they get cochlear implants quite young) or children who because of some rare patholgoy cannot speak (like Cornelia de Lange Syndrome) to be "given" a sign language a soon a possible and to be raised bilingual (bimodal);
>>>> 2) it is better for immigrant parents to speak their native language to their children (unless they are strong psychological or other reasons not to) rather than a language they are not experts in and for primary school teachers not to put pressure on the parents for them to only speak the language of the country they live in;
>>>>
>>>> Any good papers (if possible the actual paper) or references welcome especially if they treat both those issues together!
>>>>
>>>> Happy Thanksgiving to our American colleagues and Happy Chanukah to our Jewish colleagues (and whoever celebrates those holidays). Sorry if I don't know about other holidays coming up in the next few days!
>>>> Best,
>>>> Aliyah
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, Ph. D.
>>>> Unidel H. Rodney Sharp Professor
>>>> School of Education and Departments of Psychology and Linguistics and Cognitive Science
>>>> University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716
>>>> Office: 302-831-1634; Fax: 302-831-4110
>>>> Web page: http://udel.edu/~roberta/
>>>> Author of "A Mandate for Playful Learning in Preschool: Presenting the Evidence" (Oxford)
>>>> http://www.mandateforplayfullearning.com/
>>>> Please check out our doctoral program at http://www.udel.edu/education/graduate/index.html
>>>> The late Mary Dunn said, "Life is the time we have to learn."
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Erika Hoff, Professor
>>>> Department of Psychology
>>>> Florida Atlantic University
>>>> 3200 College Ave.
>>>> Davie, FL 33314
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
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> --
> Prof Gisela Szagun PhD BSc
>
> www.giselaszagun.com
>
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> --
> Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, Ph. D.
> Unidel H. Rodney Sharp Professor
> School of Education and Departments of Psychology and Linguistics and Cognitive Science
> University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716
> Office: 302-831-1634; Fax: 302-831-4110
> Web page: http://udel.edu/~roberta/
> Author of "A Mandate for Playful Learning in Preschool: Presenting the Evidence" (Oxford)
> http://www.mandateforplayfullearning.com/
> Please check out our doctoral program at http://www.udel.edu/education/graduate/index.html
> The late Mary Dunn said, "Life is the time we have to learn."
>
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> Prof Gisela Szagun PhD BSc
>
> www.giselaszagun.com
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> Roberta Michnick Golinkoff, Ph. D.
> Unidel H. Rodney Sharp Professor
> School of Education and Departments of Psychology and Linguistics and Cognitive Science
> University of Delaware, Newark, DE 19716
> Office: 302-831-1634; Fax: 302-831-4110
> Web page: http://udel.edu/~roberta/
> Author of "A Mandate for Playful Learning in Preschool: Presenting the Evidence" (Oxford)
> http://www.mandateforplayfullearning.com/
> Please check out our doctoral program at http://www.udel.edu/education/graduate/index.html
> The late Mary Dunn said, "Life is the time we have to learn."
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> Prof Gisela Szagun PhD BSc
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> www.giselaszagun.com
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> Keith Nelson
> Faculty Senator
> Professor of Psychology
> Penn State University
> 118 Moore Building Reno
> University Park, PA 16802
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> keithnelsonart at gmail.com
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> 814 863 1747
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>
> And what is mind
> and how is it recognized ?
> It is clearly drawn
> in Sumi ink, the
> sound of breezes drifting through pine.
>
> --Ikkyu Sojun
> Japanese Zen Master 1394-1481
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> <Nelson, Keith et al 2004 Acquiring Art.. 1 2.pdf><Nelson Ark chapter 11 in Mody 08 1.pdf>
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