<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">In some cases, "twin languages" turn out to be phonologically impaired children who share certain patterns.<DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>In the Icelandic case, given that the girl did not ever learn the standard language, I would suspect that there was some kind of disorder there.</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Shelley Velleman</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>"If someone tells you your ideas are half-assed, turn the other cheek"</DIV><DIV><SPAN class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre"><SPAN class="Apple-style-span" style="white-space: pre; "> </SPAN></SPAN>-- Alice Callum</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Shelley Velleman</DIV><DIV>Communication Disorders</DIV><DIV>Univ. of Mass. - Amherst</DIV><DIV><A href="mailto:velleman@comdis.umass.edu">velleman@comdis.umass.edu</A></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN> </DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Aug 29, 2007, at 11:14 AM, Dan I. Slobin wrote:</DIV><BR class="Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE type="cite"> footnote on the Icelandic case:<BR> This was not an instance of onomatopoeia, but of twin language. A boy and girl twin in the late 18th century, as reported by a 19th century Danish linguist, created a private language, as is sometimes documented for twins. Because they weren't readily acquiring standard Icelandic, the parents separated the twins, sending the boy to a distant farm, where he died. After that, the girl continued to speak their shared language, and the community learned it in order to communicate with her and to insure that she learned enough religion for the salvation of her soul. There is almost no documentation of the language, so we can't know how close it was to Icelandic. The few other documented twin languages that I know of turn out to be quite clearly based on the surrounding language, with some phonological alterations and some innovations. Has anyone documented the extent to which such innovations are creative sound icons like those reported by Marie?<BR><BR> another footnote:<BR> Marie's examples seem to be attempts at iconic representation in the acoustic modality, like visual icons in the motor modality shown in early gesture in both hearing and deaf children.<BR><BR> Dan Slobin<BR><BR> <BR> At 06:47 AM 8/29/2007, Brian MacWhinney wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE type="cite" class="cite" cite="">Dear Marie,<BR> All children do this to some degree. What is remarkable is that some<BR> chidlren only do a little bit of this and others much more. It would be<BR> very helpful if you could tabulate his complete vocabulary and compute the<BR> percentage of words that are conventional from the total. It would also be<BR> helpful if you could track this over the next 10 months. If you had just<BR> this basic information on a case of this type, you would perhaps have more<BR> than I can think of in the current literature. Possibly other info-childes<BR> readers will know of something I have missed.<BR> There is, of course, the famous case of the lady in Iceland who invented<BR> her own language and forced everyone to learn that. If you couldn't speak<BR> her language, you couldn't really interact with her at all. I wonder what<BR> experiences your son has when trying to communicate with people outside your<BR> family who have not yet learned his language.<BR><BR> --Brian MacWhinney <BR><BR> <BR> On 8/29/07 6:05 AM, "mariehojholt" <<A href="mailto:mariehojholt@stofanet.dk">mariehojholt@stofanet.dk</A>> wrote:<BR><BR> > <BR> > Dear all!<BR> > Being new at this network I wish to thank you all for a fantastic opportunity<BR> > to correspond with equals, or, kind of. I am graduate student of linguistics<BR> > in Aarhus, Denmark.<BR> > Here is my question:<BR> > I am looking for relevant studies of children who do not seem to acquire<BR> > actual words as much as onomatopoeic sounds.<BR> > My two-year-old son Harald, is developing "according to plan" but doesn't care<BR> > for the "linguistic symbols that the surrounding environment has as<BR> > consensus": words.<BR> > <BR> > Here is a short list of his sounds and utterances:<BR> > "Mor (mummy) aa-aj (~not) bzzz (sound of fly) krqr (sound of<BR> > breaking which means "egg") - pip-pip (sound of bird) krqr<BR> > (sound of breaking" <BR> > - so: Mummy, flies don't have eggs, BIRDS have eggs!"<BR> > <BR> > "words":<BR> > water: "aah!" (sound you make after drinking)<BR> > food: "mtl-mtl" (chewing-sound)<BR> > sleeping/bed: "hhhrr-pfffff" (sleeping sound)<BR> > toothbrush: "hrhr-hrhr"<BR> > Cracker/"broken"/egg: "krqr" <BR> > Pooridge: "ph-ph-ph" (sound of boiling)<BR> > <BR> > <BR> > Apart from this he uses all the usual onomatopoeic sounds typical for<BR> > children: animal sounds, vehicle sounds...<BR> > He does have some actual words: Mom, dad, diper, blue, Gorm (brother), home,<BR> > now, more, shoe, in, ...but not too many verbs.<BR> > I hope some of you have comments on this, or links, references or anything.<BR> > I am not worried about him, since he is a happy, clever boy who communicates<BR> > adequately and relevantly, and - to me - intelligably.<BR> > Though, I am hyperinterested in understanding his procedures and apparently<BR> > somewhat onomatopoeic-ICONIC language behaviour.<BR> > He is not interested in us telling him what the real words are, and if we try<BR> > to push him, he ignores us or get angry.<BR> > All my best,<BR> > Marie Hoejholt<BR> > </BLOCKQUOTE> <X-SIGSEP><P> <FONT size="1"> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR> Dan I. Slobin, Professor of the Graduate School<BR> Professor Emeritus of Psychology and Linguistics<BR><BR> Department of Psychology email: <A href="mailto:slobin@berkeley.edu">slobin@berkeley.edu</A><BR> 3210 Tolman #1650 phone (Dept): 1-510-642-5292<BR> University of California phone (home): 1-510-848-1769<BR> Berkeley, CA 94720-1650 fax: 1-510-642-5293<BR> USA <A href="http://ihd.berkeley.edu/slobin.htm" eudora="autourl"> http://ihd.berkeley.edu/slobin.htm<BR> </A> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><BR> <BR> </FONT> </P></X-SIGSEP></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>