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I can't imagine this exercise, Peter. Chomsky was critically
important in posing some of the most important, and still current
questions: How does the child arrive at a grammar with limited
information about grammar provided in the input? Is their an
innately specified device for this task? What are the differences
between knowledge and skill? How can we formally represent the
underlying structures of language? Is grammar autonomous? Are
there language universals, and are they biologically based? Etc.
etc.<br><br>
My disappointment over the years was with the narrowness of the answers,
the rigidity and psychological implausibility of the various formalisms,
and an ideological disregard of what the child <i>can</i> learn from the
speech+situation world in which it lives and grows--that is, disregard of
the roles of semantics and pragmatics and their cognitive, biological
bases, as well as disregard of the roles of frequency, memory, and
processing as necessary components of a model of language
acquisition. In fact, when I invited Chomsky to contribute a
chapter on language development to my early volume, <i>The Ontogenesis of
Grammar </i>(1971), he replied--and this was in 1966--that he had no idea
about how or why language development occurred. He said it was a
puzzle that acquisition was not instantaneous, and he had nothing to say
about development. (All of this led me to write a paper, way back
in 1988, "Confessions of a wayward Chomskyan.")<br><br>
Yes, I reiterate, I am still driven by the questions that he posed a
half-century ago--though not by his current position.<br><br>
Dan<br><br>
At 11:47 AM 10/11/2007, Gordon, Peter wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">
<font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2>I think it would be an interesting
exercise if Robin (and other Anti-Chomskians) could give us a sense of
how child language might have developed without Chomsky and why it would
have benefited from his absence.<br>
</font> <br>
<font face="Arial, Helvetica" size=2>Peter Gordon<br>
</font> <br><br>
<pre>Peter Gordon, Associate Professor
525 W 120th St. Box 180
Biobehavioral Sciences Department
Teachers College, Columbia University
New York, NY 10027
Office Phone: (212) 678-8162
FAX: (212) 678-8233
Web Page:
<a href="http://www.tc.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328" eudora="autourl">
www.tc.edu/faculty/index.htm?facid=pg328</a></pre>
<font face="Courier New, Courier"></font><br>
<hr>
<font size=2><b>From:</b> info-childes@mail.talkbank.org on behalf of
Anat Ninio<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thu 10/11/2007 6:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jeff MacSwan<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Anat Ninio; r.n.campbell; info-childes@mail.talkbank.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Chomsky: Obsolete?<br>
</font><br>
<font size=2>Well, generativism hasn't been the same since Chomsky turned
his theory<br>
into a sub-type of Dependency Grammar! My enthusiasm for
highly-abstract<br>
syntax as a framework for developmental theory has always been very<br>
restricted, so it's good news that Chomsky doesn't work that way any
more.<br><br>
Anat Ninio<br><br>
Jeff MacSwan wrote:<br>
> It's not a surprise that those who are committed to frameworks
which<br>
> disavow generativist work would gleefully await the day when the
most<br>
> influential figure, who also created the field, is no longer
"relevant."<br>
><br>
> But Chomsky's work actually continues to grow in significance
and<br>
> influence, precisely due to its relevance not only to
linguistics<br>
> generally, but also to the social sciences, the cognitive
sciences,<br>
> computer science and mathematics, and philosophy.<br>
><br>
> While one can do interesting and important linguistic research that
does<br>
> not heavily rely on Chomsky's own specific contributions to
linguistic<br>
> theory, the idea that his work has generally lost relevance or<br>
> significance reflects a lack of acquaintance with the current<br>
> linguistics literature.<br>
><br>
> Jeff MacSwan<br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: info-childes@mail.talkbank.org<br>
>
[<a href="mailto:info-childes@mail.talkbank.org">
mailto:info-childes@mail.talkbank.org</a>] On Behalf Of Anat Ninio<br>
> Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2007 7:56 AM<br>
> To: r.n.campbell<br>
> Cc: info-childes@mail.talkbank.org<br>
> Subject: Re: Chomsky: Obsolete?<br>
><br>
> Hi Robin,<br>
><br>
> Chomsky actually changed his mind about what syntax is, so maybe
he's<br>
> now a more relevant figure than before?<br>
><br>
> Anat Ninio<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> r.n.campbell wrote:<br>
> <br>
>>> *Competence vs. Performance: A False Distinction?*<br>
>>> <br>
>> A broader topic (which includes this one and is equally
worth<br>
>> discussing) is that Noam Chomsky and all his works are also
obsolete.<br>
>> For me, it will be a happy day when this is so.<br>
>> --<br>
>> <br>
>> Dr Robin N Campbell<br>
>> Dept of Psychology<br>
>> University of Stirling<br>
>> STIRLING FK9 4LA<br>
>> Scotland, UK<br>
>><br>
>> telephone: 01786-467649 facsimile: 01786-467641<br>
>> email: r.n.campbell@stir.ac.uk<br>
>> Website:
<a href="http://www.psychology.stir.ac.uk/staff/rcampbell/index.php">
http://www.psychology.stir.ac.uk/staff/rcampbell/index.php</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> The University of Stirling is a university established in
Scotland by<br>
>> charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential
Information may<br>
>> be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee
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>> in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to
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>> and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it,
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advise<br>
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>><br>
>> <br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> <br><br>
</font></blockquote>
<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font size=1>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
Dan I. Slobin, Professor of the Graduate School<br>
Professor Emeritus of Psychology and Linguistics<br><br>
Department of Psychology email:
slobin@berkeley.edu<br>
3210 Tolman
#1650
phone (Dept): 1-510-642-5292<br>
University of
California
phone (home): 1-510-848-1769<br>
Berkeley, CA 94720-1650
fax: 1-510-642-5293<br>
USA
<a href="http://ihd.berkeley.edu/slobin.htm" eudora="autourl">
http://ihd.berkeley.edu/slobin.htm<br>
</a>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><br>
<br>
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