<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;"><br>I think you might have sent this just to me and not the rest of the<br>group, BTW. Since it sounds really cool, you might want to resend<br>it. Cheers,<br><br>Margaret<br><br><br>--- On <b>Tue, 8/11/09, Lorraine McCune <i><mccune@rci.rutgers.edu></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Lorraine McCune <mccune@rci.rutgers.edu><br>Subject: Fwd: Re: Pace of early language development<br>To: mailto:@nbcs-av.rutgers.edu<br>Date: Tuesday, August 11, 2009, 10:50 AM<br><br><div class="plainMail"><br>This is certainly a rich and varied exchange of <br>ideas! Does it seem to anyone else to be a thought experiment?<br><br>The goal of my research over the past 30+ years <br>has been to devise observational approaches to <br>predicting (even by
a few months) when a child <br>would shift into single word referential <br>language. In a longitudinal study of the first <br>three years, among 10 middle class normally <br>developing children the range of onset was 14 <br>months to 27 months of age. I did find that a set <br>of measures including development of mental <br>representation measured in play, use of vocal <br>motor schemes (consonants used consistently <br>across several months) and (surprisingly) <br>communication by "grunts" together predicted this <br>transition. These results were published in bits <br>over the years and recently brought together in a <br>book from Oxford U. Press "How children learn to <br>learn language". In addition to differences in <br>rate of development, these children also differed <br>in breadth of skill at each phase.<br><br>Given this variability in a group from a fairly <br>coherent cultural group, I fail to see how we <br>could ever know whether children
were developing <br>language "faster" over the decades. This also <br>recalls Piaget's comment regarding whether <br>cognition could be speeded up. He called this "the American question"!<br><br>Fun as a thought experiment, but hard to expect <br>an answer. We still do not really know how and <br>why language develops as it does.<br><br>Lorraine McCune<br><br><br>>Delivered-To: <a ymailto="mailto:MCCUNE@RCI.RUTGERS.EDU" href="/mc/compose?to=MCCUNE@RCI.RUTGERS.EDU">MCCUNE@RCI.RUTGERS.EDU</a><br>>X-Virus-Scanned: Virus Scanned by NBCS<br>>X-Spam-Flag: NO<br>><br>>X-Sender: <a ymailto="mailto:margaretmfleck@yahoo.com" href="/mc/compose?to=margaretmfleck@yahoo.com">margaretmfleck@yahoo.com</a><br>>X-Apparently-To: <a ymailto="mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com" href="/mc/compose?to=info-childes@googlegroups.com">info-childes@googlegroups.com</a><br>><br>>Subject: Re: Pace of early language development<br>>To: <a
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href="/mc/compose?to=info-childes@googlegroups.com">info-childes@googlegroups.com</a><br>><br>><br>>It's slightly more complicated than <br>>that. You also have to consider whether<br>>more of today's kids attend daycare, which adds both a big peer group and an<br>>interestingly diverse (often first language <br>>non-English) set of adults for kids to<br>>interact with. That could be a plus or a minus, but it can't be ignored.<br>><br>>The age of the mother and whether a father is around could also be a<br>>factor. Both have changed over time, and both vary across the US and<br>>across demographic groups. It's easy to see how the child of a single<br>>16-year-old might get different input than the child of a married 30-year<br>>old, even if all else is the same.<br>><br>>A quick glance at a map of US birth rates suggests that the
lower numbers<br>>of siblings tend to be in the areas of the US with higher school test scores.<br>>This makes me wonder how help those extra siblings are really providing.<br>><br>>Margaret Fleck<br>><br>>--- On Thu, 8/6/09, Keith Nelson <<a ymailto="mailto:k1n@psu.edu" href="/mc/compose?to=k1n@psu.edu">k1n@psu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>><br>>From: Keith Nelson <<a ymailto="mailto:k1n@psu.edu" href="/mc/compose?to=k1n@psu.edu">k1n@psu.edu</a>><br>>Subject: Re: Pace of early language development<br>>To: <a ymailto="mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com" href="/mc/compose?to=info-childes@googlegroups.com">info-childes@googlegroups.com</a><br>>Date: Thursday, August 6, 2009, 6:18 AM<br>><br>><br>>Hi all. Have been on beach vacation and<br>>watching toddlers and older siblings and parents<br>>a little.<br>><br>> To the questions of has pace changed
and<br>>does it vary by SES, a few thoughts:<br>><br>> 1. 40 or 50 years ago there may have<br>>been on average some advantages for language<br>>learning in the first 3 years of life created by<br>>larger families and more older siblings fairly<br>>close in age to the learner's age (say 2 years<br>>ahead) and also more direct conversational time<br>>between the learner and an available total pool<br>>of parents, grandparents, siblings, and neighbors<br>><br>> 2. "Controlled" comparisons are<br>>difficult between now and then, but to the extent<br>>possible it would be excellent to have some<br>>comparisons where first language, SES,<br>>neighborhood, number and spacing of siblings,<br>>number of extended family members like<br>>grandparents and cousins and so on are highly<br>>similar<br>><br>>
3. There are many clues that John<br>>Bercow's observation holds even when the<br>>comparisons between lower and higher SES hold<br>>constant the first<br>>language/ethnic/immigrant-or-not status of the<br>>families--lower language levels, including<br>>clinical levels of language delay, are more<br>>probable for lower SES children<br>><br>> 4. High variability in acquisition rates<br>>have been observed again and again, even when<br>>many of the factors in #2 have been documented as<br>>similar across the children being compared, in<br>>modern studies. Biological differences in what<br>>different children bring to the language learning<br>>"table" are no doubt contributing, but are poorly<br>>understood. Patterns of interaction have been<br>>shown to matter greatly, and when the same<br>>biological
child encounters newly favorable<br>>interaction patterns the pace of acquisition<br>>accelerates. So, 50 or 100 years ago were the<br>>interaction patterns typically better or worse to<br>>support language acquisition ? On that, I can<br>>see both sides--as noted in #1, earlier days<br>>could have been better in some respects, but<br>>modern times may pair the child language learner<br>>with adults and older siblings who have broader<br>>world knowledge, more influence of literacy on<br>>oral language sophistication and flexibility, and<br>>possibly more awareness of (and use of )<br>>strategies that are helpful when conversing with<br>>the child learner.<br>><br>> Keith<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>At 11:28 AM +0100 8/3/09, Matthew Saxton wrote:<br>> >I think Brianıs suggestion is ingenious.<br>> >However, to my
knowledge, language change is<br>> >especially driven by young people in the teenage<br>> >years with the introduction of new meanings,<br>> >terms and phrases rather than by toddlers.<br>> ><br>> >The perception of a linguistic decline over<br>> >successive generations is sometimes driven by<br>> >political considerations. A recent U.K. example<br>> >is the Bercow Review (by the same John Bercow<br>> >who is now Speaker of the House of Commons).<br>> >Without citing any specific sources, his report<br>> >suggests that:<br>> ><br>> >Approximately 50% of children in some<br>> >socio-economically disadvantaged populations<br>> >have speech and language skills that are<br>> >significantly lower than those of other children<br>> >of the same age.<br>> ><br>> >The implication is that a steep decline is in<br>> >train within the U.K.,
ascribable to<br>> >socioeconomic factors. One such factor is<br>> >whether or not English is the childıs first<br>> >language. It has become increasingly common for<br>> >very young children, who have had little<br>> >exposure to English, to be placed in<br>> >English-language Nursery settings. Such children<br>> >will naturally depress average scores on<br>> >standardised language tests, especially in the<br>> >early stages of their exposure to English. But<br>> >one could not argue from such data that the<br>> >language learning capacities of children had<br>> >declined in any way.<br>> ><br>> >Regards,<br>> ><br>> >Matthew Saxton.<br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> >*********************************************** <br>> **********************************************************<br>> ><br>> >Department of Psychology and Human
Development,<br>> >Institute of Education,<br>> >University of London,<br>> >25 Woburn Square,<br>> >London,<br>> >WC1H 0AA.<br>> ><br>> >Tel: 020-7612-6509<br>> >Fax: 020-7612-6304<br>> ><br>> ><<<a href="http://www.ioe.ac.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.ioe.ac.uk/</a>><a href="http://www.ioe.ac.uk/" target="_blank">http://www.ioe.ac.uk/</a>><a href="http://www.ioe.ac.uk" target="_blank">http://www.ioe.ac.uk</a><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>> ><br>><br>>--<br>><br>><br>><br>>Keith Nelson<br>>Professor of Psychology<br>>Penn State University<br>>423 Moore Building<br>>University Park, PA 16802<br>><br>><br>><a ymailto="mailto:keithnelsonart@psu.edu" href="/mc/compose?to=keithnelsonart@psu.edu">keithnelsonart@psu.edu</a><br>><br>>814 863 1747<br>><br>><br>><br>>And what is mind<br>>and how
is it recognized ?<br>>It is clearly drawn<br>>in Sumi ink, the<br>>sound of breezes drifting through pine.<br>><br>>--Ikkyu Sojun<br>>Japanese Zen Master 1394-1481<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>Lorraine McCune, EdD<br>Chair, Department of Educational Psychology<br>Graduate School of Education<br>Rutgers University<br>10 Seminary Place<br>New Brunswick, NJ 08901<br><br>Ph: 732-932-7496 ex. 8310<br>FAX: 732932-6829<br><br>Web Page: www.gse.rutgers.edu<br><br><br><br><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></table<br>
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