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<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=343013415-13082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>An interesting discussion, and I agree with Gisela that
this issue may say as much about societal and researcher concerns as it does
about child development. But a few psychometric and other
thoughts:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=343013415-13082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>1. High variance does not preclude a mean difference. It
just means that the mean difference will be harder to demonstrate, as it will
require larger samples for adequate statistical power.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=343013415-13082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>2. A small mean difference may well have less practical
meaning when the variance is large - the same argument is often made with
respect to sex differences in language and other cognitive skills. But it may
not. A small shift in means of a normal distribution will have a much larger
effect on the number of individuals who are more extreme than a selected
criterion score. (This issue *also* comes up in discussions of sex
differences.) </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=343013415-13082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>3. Given the general tendency of scores to drift upwards on
almost all standardized tests (including the Bayley), the 'Flynn Effect', it is
unlike that there has been a genuine downward drift in language ability - but it
would be good to have real data on this.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=343013415-13082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>4. A personal bet: I think if there is any change going on,
it is more likely to be with respect to what is sometimes called
decontextualized language use, sometimes Cognitive-Academic Language
Proficiency, sometimes other labels. That is, a particular pragmatic use of
language which in some sense doesn't come naturally, one that needs instruction
and practice, and is much stimulated by literacy. Given the diminished role of
literacy in children's lives - a demonstrable fact - this could be a real
change. Of course, data would be even better, but measures of DL/CALP are much
more recent so we don't have much of a basis yet.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=343013415-13082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=343013415-13082009><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff size=2>Philip Dale</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr align=left><SPAN class=343013415-13082009></SPAN> </DIV><BR>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader lang=en-us dir=ltr align=left>
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<FONT face=Tahoma size=2><B>From:</B> info-childes@googlegroups.com
[mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Gisela
Szagun<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 13, 2009 8:38 AM<BR><B>To:</B>
info-childes@googlegroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Re: Pace of early language
development<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>Dear colleagues,<BR><BR>not only has the enormous varibility in early
language development been demonstrated by the research cited by Lorraine,
Katherine and Keith, but it has by now been demonstrated in large representative
sample of children acquiring a variety of different languages in different
cultures. So, it is probably a true "universal" (as opposed to some postulated
ones).<BR><BR>I tend to think that discussions about the "speeding up" or
"deterioration" of some or the other behavioural development may tell us more
about researchers and non-researchers in different countries than about
children's development. With respect to language development and in the absence
of really solid evidence over generations, i tend to see these discussions as
variations on two themes "in the old days everything was better" and "we are
getting better all the time". I can't see the evidence for either with respect
to children's language development. And I suppose we haven't reached Johann
Sebastian Bach's skills in variations on themes. He managed fugues with three or
four themes and variations on them - and it all fitted
together!<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Gisela<BR><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Margaret Fleck <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:margaretmfleck@yahoo.com">margaretmfleck@yahoo.com</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
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vAlign=top><BR>I think the range of variation is one of those things
that's obvious to<BR>the parents and teachers "on the ground" and more
difficult to<BR>document in a way that convinces skeptics. I
don't think you have<BR>to know very many kids socially before you run
into examples of the<BR>upper and lower ends of the range on language
and other standard toddler/preschool skills. There
also seems to be wide variation in<BR>when kids learn other skills e.g.
potty training, holding a fork well,<BR>singing, climbing.<BR><FONT
color=#888888><BR>Margaret Fleck<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT></TD></TR>
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<TD><BR></TD></TR></TD></TBODY></TABLE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Prof Gisela Szagun PhD
BSc<BR><BR>Vertraulichkeitshinweis:<BR>Diese Nachricht ist nur für Personen
bestimmt, an die sie adressiert ist. Jede Veröffentlichung ist ausdrücklich
untersagt.<BR><BR>Confidentiality:<BR>This message is intended exclusively for
the persons it is addressed to. Publication is
prohibited.<BR><BR><BR><BR<br>
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