Hi Gisela,<div><br></div><div>I want to first respond to the issue of teaching the 4/5 year old grandson to read and write in German (in addition to English).<br><div><br></div><div>1. There is now a literature on children learning to read and write in Spanish and English in the US at the same time and the greater phonological transparency of Spanish has been shown to have a positive effect on the English;</div>
<div><br></div><div>2. A friend of mine raised her son with Spanish/Father's lg and French/mother's lg at home and English being introduced around 3. I advised his mother to start teaching to read in French (a deep orthography- different from English) as soon as he leaned in English- and it is the same issue formal reading and writing in France and therefore in in French material typically starts at 6, not 5. Still she started with the relatively transparent words (with trepidation: she herself has a slight dyslexia that makes her a slow readers in her 3 lgs) and the Spanish-speaking dad did not directly teach him to read and write in Spanish but kept reading him books and pointing to the words etc. He is 8 years old now and his reading in English is fine (same or above his age peers on standard tests that US public schools are obsessed with) and he also enjoys reading in Spanish and French,a s well as French, which is crucial to the development of his languages. </div>
<div><br></div><div>3. I really think that you cannot over emphasize the importance of literacy and many of my university students at Brooklyn College (the students population speaks about 100 different lgs ) are Heritage Lg Learners who feel their home language is impoverished by their lack of literacy skills in that lg. Those of attend Heritage Lg classes offered (in Cantonese, Haitian Creole, Russian, Spanish etc) say they feel empowered by these literacy skills.</div>
<div>After a certain age , we learn more about language (new words etc) and we lean more through/in a language with our literacy skills (and this is particularly true in today's IT world) so not having your grandson learn to read in German (which as you say yourself is not that hard given the transparency of the system) is depriving him of a chance to develop his German language skills independently. And if you wait his English literacy skills are going to be so strong he is not going to be interested in learning/improving his German ones. This is also what I share with the Russian-speaking parents of bilingual children at w/shops I regularly deliver in Brooklyn. </div>
<div><br></div><div>4. One the languages I have been working with is Yiddish in the Hasidic community in Brooklyn. This community has been exceptional at continuing the cultural transmission in sometimes adverse conditions and one of the reasons why it has been successful is the emphasis of literacy skills. Yiddish is transmitted, partly because it provides a bridge to the Hebrew alphabet, that of course is ties to religion. And there are many historical accounts of the teaching methods in the community that emphasized learning the alphabets with different modalities (including anecdotes on letters made out of wood placed in honey for children to suck so they would love learning the alphabet, Baumgarten, 1988) </div>
<div><br></div><div>5. In my lab we have looked at emergent literacy skills of children exposed to both the Hebrew and Roman alphabets of Hebrew-English-speaking preschoolers and we have not found any delay and we have found evidence of transfer of skills, re: letter recognition and phonological processing. </div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>I hope this helps,</div><div><br></div><div>Isabelle<br><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 8:33 AM, Gisela Szagun <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gisela.szagun@googlemail.com" target="_blank">gisela.szagun@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Dear Elena, Laura, Annick, All,<br><br>I have been reading the recent messages on bilingualism with great (largely personal) interest. My personal interest concerns my grandson who is now 4 and soon 5. I can give an answer relating to pronounciation, accent. <br>
<br>Elliot, my grandson, has heard English and German at home from birth. His mother is German, his father British. He speaks German fluently. The usual home language is English (they live in London). My daughter (his mother) spoke in German and English to him for some time - about his first two years. And German is spoken between my daughter and me when I visit, usually once a week (both native speakers of German). As with Laura's son Elliot's first words were German, but when he started with English and went to nursery from 2 1/2 he did not want to speak German any more, sometimes also complaining when my daughter and I speak German. <br>
<br>Last summer I did a German course for Kindergartners from Goethe Institut with him. He enjoyed that and remembers the words and phrases very well. I did not think he would. But he still does now although we have not practised them.<br>
<br>What is very noticable is that he has almost no English accent in his German. He has always been able to pronounce Umlaut and "ch" - the usual difficulties English people have. As regards the schwa at the end of words which is "a" with an English accent, he does this sometimes, but when I repeat the word or answer him in German, and he repeats the word it become the German schwa immediately. His pronounciation - if it does show English influences - become native German in no time. I relate that to the fact that he has heard German from baby onwards.<br>
<br>I am at a bit of a loss how to continue with his German now, and I would be grateful if anyone has an idea. <br>He has started school - as they do in England at the early age of 4 years. That means they do some form of writing. Elliot enjoys it. If I continue with the Goethe Institue German course for primary school children, it would require writing. But children don't start school and writing till 6 in Germany. I do not want to confuse Elliot's phonological - graphological system. The relation between sound and letters is pretty straightforward in German, whether there are any regularities in English and what they do at school, escapes me. (They seem to start with some regularities. How English children learn the relations between sound and letters escapes me, too). However, Elliot wants me to write words in German, and it does not seem to confuse him. He particularly likes the "eyes" on vowels with Umlaut. So, I may be able to continue.<br>
<br>What my daughter and I do now is that we create situations - i.e. having breakfast, playing with forest animals in a forest and speak in simple German sentences. Elliot tends to answer in English, but does say single words in German. He understands the actions. I also read from an attractive book with pictures: first a phrase in German, then in English. As he enjoys the characters and stories in the book, he likes this and answers to simple questions in German by pointing or answering in English.<br>
<br>Regarding a total immersion, it would be possible next year in the summer. But then he will be six. Just possible for Kindergarten in Germany. But would it work at the age of 6?<br><br>Elliot definitely understands quite a bit of German. But he has a reluctance to speak except for single words.<br>
<br>Does anyone have any ideas what to do? I would be grateful. <br><br>Elliot has a baby brother now, 7 months. My daughter wants to start with German again and attend a German play group in London, once a week. We think Elliot might join in (in some form) if we speak German with his little brother, as he likes him a lot.<br>
<br>Regards,<br>Gisela<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><br> <br><br><br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 22, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Elena Lieven <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lieven@eva.mpg.de" target="_blank">lieven@eva.mpg.de</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<font><span style="font-size:10pt">I am interested in what
these children's accent was like in the language that 'suddenly
switched on'. Do they need to have produced it to sound
initially like a native speaker? One child I know also refused
to speak English, though she was spoken to exclusively in
English by her father who was the main carer from 1;0 - 3;0. But
the family lives in Germany, the mother spoke German to the
child, the child went to German daycare and both parents are
almost native speakers in both languages. She understood
English perfectly but only started to be willing to speak it
around the age of 5 or 6 - and she had, and to some extent still
has, a German accent in English<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
elena lieven</font></span></span></font><span><font color="#888888">
</font></span></div><span><font color="#888888">
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br>Prof Gisela Szagun PhD BSc<br><br><a href="http://www.giselaszagun.com" target="_blank">www.giselaszagun.com</a><br>
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