<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">
<style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Helvetica;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";}
span.apple-style-span
{mso-style-name:apple-style-span;}
span.EmailStyle19
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">OK, then, pragmatic issues satisfied, Shelley Brundage and I tried this a while back for English and came up with a conversion factor of about 1.5 for American
English speaking kids’ speech from about 3-8 (JFD, 1989). But you are asking about norms? Because you seem to have identified that the conversion is closer to 1:1 for Inuktitut. This seems to be a question Phon users might be able to compute for longitudinal
samples in the database. I guess Brian could say whether any dataset in TalkBank is pre-syllabified. If so, one could theoretically do this on archival data.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best regards to all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Nan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> info-childes@googlegroups.com [mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Shanley Allen<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 09, 2013 6:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> info-childes@googlegroups.com<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: MLU in syllables?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">No, it's a good question. I wouldn't try this for English, but it makes sense for Inuktitut because Inuktitut is written with a syllabic script. So anyone who writes Inuktitut (98% literacy rate!) is forced to think in syllables, and native
speakers of Inuktitut who are assisting in the assessment can easily transcribe the child's speech in syllabics and then simply count the number of characters in each utterance. Those same native speakers would have a very hard time dividing Inuktitut into
morphemes to calculate a traditional MLU. And assessing MLU in words (as is done for Irish, for example) is uninformative for Inuktitut because it is polysynthetic and has rampant argument ellipsis so all the interesting linguistic development at early ages
happens in the morphology.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Shanley.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:48 PM, Nan Bernstein Ratner wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">This may seem like a stupid question, but do pediatricians know what a syllable is? My spouse, who is a doctor, probably would prefer something based on a literate unit, like words. I am afraid to ask what he
thinks about counting syllables in any language, but I will go home tonight and ask.<br>
Nan Bernstein Ratner<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com">info-childes@googlegroups.com</a> [<a href="mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com">mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com</a>] On Behalf Of Shanley Allen<br>
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 5:25 PM<br>
To: <a href="mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com">info-childes@googlegroups.com</a><br>
Subject: MLU in syllables?<br>
<br>
I'm wondering if anyone has tried to calculate MLU in syllables for any language, or knows of any study like this. I'm working with an SLP colleague to devise tests that would be suitable for assessing language delay in Inuktitut. The target user group is pediatricians
who don't know Inuktitut well enough to do a morphological analysis, but want to use measures that are appropriate for the language. This idea seems a little crazy, but our preliminary results show that MLU in syllables correlates very highly with MLU in morphemes
in Inuktitut data, so it might just work.<br>
<br>
Thanks in advance,<br>
Shanley Allen.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:13.5pt"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Shanley Allen<br>
Professor, Psycholinguistics and Language Development<br>
Dept. of Social Sciences, University of Kaiserslautern<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
<a href="mailto:info-childes+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">info-childes+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href="mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com">
info-childes@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/350A371C-88C8-4483-833F-3CE0980CB098%40bu.edu">
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/350A371C-88C8-4483-833F-3CE0980CB098%40bu.edu</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
<p></p>
-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Info-CHILDES" group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to info-childes+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br />
To post to this group, send email to info-childes@googlegroups.com.<br />
To view this discussion on the web visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D20EC7C%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU">https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/info-childes/78F7051232E584458D81A07B6C78AF7D20EC7C%40OITMX1008.AD.UMD.EDU</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out">https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out</a>.<br />