<div dir="ltr">One interesting observation that I've heard is that people who are (late) L2 learners will have problems in using and understanding idioms in the non-native language. This appears to be true in speakers who have perfect phonology and grammar and might be otherwise indistinguishable from native speakers. It suggests that the acquisition of idioms is somehow linked to mechanisms that differentiate between L1 and L2 processing.<div>
<br></div><div>Peter Gordon</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 9:34 AM, Keith Nelson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:k1n@psu.edu" target="_blank">k1n@psu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">HI all. Here is the specific reference on the the intervention study (also discussed in the JSLHR research paper) with ASD children for idioms. Best regards, Keith N<br>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><b><span style="font-family:Times">Whyte, E. M., Nelson, K. E, & Khan,
K. S. (2013). Learning of idiomatic language expressions <span> </span>in a group intervention
for children with autism, <i>Autism, </i>17,
449-464.</span></b></p>
<div><br><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Keith Nelson</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:k1n@psu.edu" target="_blank">k1n@psu.edu</a>></span><br>
Date: Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 11:44 AM<br>
Subject: Re: Idiom comprehension in child language<br>To: <a href="mailto:info-childes@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">info-childes@googlegroups.com</a>, Keith Nelson <<a href="mailto:keithnelsonart@gmail.com" target="_blank">keithnelsonart@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br><br><div dir="ltr">Hi all. I m attaching a JSLHR paper just out from our lab that reviews lit and presents an intervention study on idiom comprehension. Cheers, Keith <br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Tom Roeper <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:roeper@linguist.umass.edu" target="_blank">roeper@linguist.umass.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi folks--<div><br></div><div>just to mention a couple of things--an example I just heard:</div><div> "I know a shortcut"</div><div> "well, I know a shorter cut"</div><div>and cases like "you're a slowpoke, but I'm a fastpoke".</div>
<div><br></div><div>I wrote a paper on idioms with Zvi Penner that appears</div><div>in the volume for Jüregen Weisenborn by Mouton--it</div><div>relates to complex sentences.</div><div><br></div><div> Work by Ellen Winner on Metaphor seems pertinent</div>
<div>to children's comprehension of them. A child with</div><div>a stomache who said"</div><div> "there's a fireengine in my stomach"</div><div>or a child with a stuffed nose who said:</div>
<div>
"there's paint in my nose".</div><div><br></div><div>Deviations from compositionality can still be logically</div><div>motivated.</div><div><br></div><div>Tom Roeper</div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Mehmet ÖZCAN <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mehozcan20@gmail.com" target="_blank">mehozcan20@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Dear Hüseyin,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">(I answer all of the
questions you posed me personally here thinking that other colleagues might
want to comment on them as well)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">(Concerning your question about the location
of data collection</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">) </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The location you are going to collect the data
depends totally on the location of the study carried out by Gokmen and her
student (as you mentioned) to find out the words determined as “prototype
words”; watermelon which is found to be 8<sup><span style="border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">th</span></sup> item on
the list in Ankara may be the first or third in Urfa or Adana; or orange the
first in Mediterranean Region, if you are going to construct your
sentences depending on their list. In a nutshell, prototypicality is idiosyncratic
and a common sense of prototypicality occurs when the personal senses of
prototypicalities overlap to the sufficient extent. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">One problem with the hypothesis: As far as I
understood, you assume that idiomatic expressions are processed within the
framework of compositionality theory: the meaning of a phrase or a larger
linguistic unit can be grasped by knowing the meaning/function of each element
the whole unit contains. This may be the case in most cases, especially when it
comes to accessing the literal meaning. As you know, Compositionality Theory has
been criticized for not being able to explain the processing of pragmatics in
the expressions. Thus, you may revise your assumptions.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Another thing to concentrate on may be the
prototypicality of the idiomatic expression (among other idiomatic expressions)
itself rather than the expressions’ containing prototypical elements. You know, <i>some
birds are birder than other birds</i>. Some idiomatic expressions may have some
prototypical features structurally or regarding other qualities.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Symbol;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm">·</span><span style="font-size:7pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;border:1pt none windowtext;padding:0cm"> </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Integrating infant directed speech to this
study would be too much to my understanding. You will have to carry out
longitudinal observations to measure the exposition of a child to idiomatic expressions
or the words in the list determined by the previous studies. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p style="margin-left:36pt">
</p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I am looking forward to hearing about the findings of your
demanding study. Good luck in all ways.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br>
</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt;line-height:13.5pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><br></span></p>On Tuesday, May 20, 2014 12:56:54 AM UTC+3, <a href="mailto:huy...@gmail.com" target="_blank">huy...@gmail.com</a> wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#444444" face="georgia, serif">Dear all,<br><br>First of all, I would like to express my excitement about posting my first question in this group (Of course, after reading the older posts).<br>
<br>I have been reading about Prototype Theory of Eleanor Rosch, which is the point of departure for my M.A thesis, within the frame of child language development. Then I suddenly found myself trying to design steps for (an) experiment(s) in idiom comprehension. I am partly aware of the literature in figurative language processing (thanks to the comprehensive chapter by Gibbs and Colston in <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/book/9780123693747" target="_blank">http://www.sciencedirect.com/<u></u>science/book/9780123693747</a>). So my questions are as follows:<br>
</font><ul><font color="#444444" face="georgia, serif"><li>What is the direction of research in idiom comprehension in child language?</li><li>Could you suggest me some seminal works in idiom comprehension, or more generally figurative language?</li>
<li>Is there anyone to help me revise my experimental design?</li><li>What kind of an effect could prototypicality of concepts in idioms have on children's comprehension? (Feel free to share your criticism or advice, if you prefer to look at this research question from another perspective.)</li>
<li>A third research field having just popped into my mind is child directed speech. In what way can I integrate it into my research?</li></font></ul><font color="#444444" face="georgia, serif"><div><font face="georgia, serif">Thanks,</font></div>
Huseyin</font></div></blockquote></div><span><font color="#888888">
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