From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Thu Sep 2 22:24:40 1999 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M.Hubey) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:24:40 -0400 Subject: [language] Ancient Voices Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> "Ancient Voices": BBC2 1st Sept 99 UK "The Hunt for the First Americans" (ceefax p623) The program concentrated on Serra da Capivara - a rocky outcrop of cliffs and valleys in NE Brazil. (About equidistant from the mouth of the Amazon, the point of deepest projection of the Pacific into S America halfway up its west coast, and the Atlantic (South of the eastermost point of S America)). Walter Neves (University of SaoPaulo) said: "This is very clear in South America: all populations I have in my data set from the whole of South America, from 7,000 to the present, they're absolutely classic Mongoloid. Everything I have more than 9,000 is absolutely non-Mongoloid..." The program reported the rock paintings in Serra da Capivara are "Much older than the American Indians. The hunters are chasing giant armadillos. The animal flourished during the ice-age - long before the arrival of the Indians." There was said to be a playful feel to the pictures, including a standing couple leaning over and kissing. Portrayed were: "a net to catch deer", a stick for getting honey from beehives, 3 people helping someone give birth...men in disguise dancing with women. One of the wall paintings shows a number of figures, but have been interpreted as a single person running, jumping and spearing someone else. These scenes of possible conflict only begin to appear after the arrival of the Mongoloids. This was the only suggestion as to might have painted them. French diggers found what looked like quartzite hand axes in levels 40,000 years old. At 50,000 year old levels they seemed to find hearths with nearby food (animal) leftovers. Anne-marie Pessis, one of the workers there, tells a story of some modern fishermen off the coast of Africa, making it to Brazil, to illustrate how possible it is. (It took three weeks. It really is relatively quite easy to make that crossing.) 9-12,000 year old skulls found elsewhere in Brazil were said to be the oldest in the Americas. A solid reconstruction was made of the oldest of them all ("Lucia" [sp?]) by Richard Neave of Manchester Uni, who said "That to me is a Negroid face [...] it has all the features you'd associate..." It shared features with types found traditionally around the Indian Ocean rim. Flashing now to Australian rock shelters with images painted "10's of thousands of years ago"... One contains a high prowed boat (thought therefore to be ocean going) and thought to be the oldest boat picture in the world. Graham Walsh (Aus rock-art specialist) says their distinctive head-dresses associate the figures in the boat with a type of figuration called "Simple Northern Figures" found in that part of the North Kimberley (which are considered "pre-spear throwers" since conflict scenes of that type elsewhere do not show them, and woomeras are first seen 17,000 years ago). He talks in terms of "Up to 50,000 years ago" for the boat picture. [Of course the boats would have been used a long way from *that* painting, but anyway we already knew the first Australians had to cross - is it 200 miles? - by boat, even if it were at a time of low ocean water level.] It has convinced me. (Odd they never made Madagascar though.) More recent skulls from Tierra del Fuego are said to show more similarity to the Australian model. (Good 70-year-old footage of Fuegans and their huts, canoes (with constant fires, on layers of damp grass), bows and arrows...) >From a perhaps more on-topic point of view, male Fuegans (70 years ago) revealed that their secret ceremonies referred to times in the distant past when society was run by women, and it would not do to let them know that today, lest the men lost their grip on power. Similar legends are said to have been recorded among modern Australian aborigines. [That would be a long time for a legend to last though. The legend of the first horse amongst N American indians didn't last very long - in any tribe]. John V Jackson ---<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights and "Fair Use": http://www.templetions.com/brad//copyright.html "This means that if you are doing things like comment on a copyrighted work, mak ing fun of it, teaching about it or researching it, you can make some limited use of the work w ithout permission. For example you can quote excerpts to show how poor the writing quality is. You can teach a course about T.S. Eliot and quote lines from his poems to the class to do so. So me people think fair use is a wholesale licence to copy if you don't charge or if you are in ed ucation, and it isn't. If you want to republish other stuff without permission and think you have a fa ir use defence, you should read the more detailed discussions of the subject you will find through t he links above." You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4987E at csam-lists.montclair.edu From HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu Wed Sep 15 07:16:46 1999 From: HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu (H. Mark Hubey) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:16:46 -0400 Subject: [language] new address Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> The address for the list has changed. It is now at language at csam-lists.montclair.edu Please make a note of this for future reference. -- Sincerely, M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey --o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-- ---Simplicity of character is the result of profound thought.-- Anonymous ---<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights and "Fair Use": http://www.templetions.com/brad//copyright.html "This means that if you are doing things like comment on a copyrighted work, mak ing fun of it, teaching about it or researching it, you can make some limited use of the work w ithout permission. For example you can quote excerpts to show how poor the writing quality is. You can teach a course about T.S. Eliot and quote lines from his poems to the class to do so. So me people think fair use is a wholesale licence to copy if you don't charge or if you are in ed ucation, and it isn't. If you want to republish other stuff without permission and think you have a fa ir use defence, you should read the more detailed discussions of the subject you will find through t he links above." You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4987E at csam-lists.montclair.edu From HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu Sat Sep 25 19:10:49 1999 From: HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu (H. Mark Hubey) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:10:49 -0400 Subject: [language] language development Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Choirboy 'brought up by chimpanzees' BY PAUL WILKINSON IN A story straight from the pages of Edgar Rice Burroughs, a boy said to have been brought up by apes in the rain forest is coming to Britain to sing with a children's choir. The visit is being arranged by Hilary Cook, a dentist. She met the boy, a 14-year-old known as John, and was told his story while she was working in a remote settlement 100 miles from Kampala this summer. John's parents had been killed in a tribal skirmish when he was 2 and he was abandoned in the forest. A colony of chimpanzees apparently came across the toddler and began to care for him. They fed him fruit, nuts and berries, sheltered him and treated him as one of their own. For the next four years, the story goes, John lived with the chimpanzees, out of sight of any human beings. He grew to believe he was an ape and learnt to forage for food. Then, eight years ago, a tribesman saw what he thought was a naked boy roaming with the apes. At first no one believed him, but, when he persisted, a group set off to investigate. When they found John, he fled in fear from the human beings and his chimpanzee benefactors put up a ferocious fight to prevent the tribesmen taking him away. However, the boy was caught and taken to the Kamuzinda Christian Orphanage, where he lived with the family of the orphanage manager, who set about teaching him civilised ways. They discovered that he could say nothing beyond a few animal noises, so they first had to teach him to speak. In the course of his lessons, it was discovered that he had a fine singing voice. John joined a 20-strong children's choir that has since become famous in the area. Now Mrs Cook, 56, a mother of five children, has arranged to bring the choir on a tour of Britain next month, singing African and Christian songs. The cost will be met by the BBC, which sent a film crew to Uganda to make a programme about John that will be screened later next month. Mrs Cook, from Bannercross in Sheffield, said: "It is an incredible story and there is great excitement about the choir's trip. Many people want to meet John. "You hear stories of children being brought up in the jungle by animals, but most people think it happens only in books and films. But, in John's case, it was true. His chances of survival were nil until the family of chimpanzees came along and began to care for him. "From that point until he was aged about 6, he was reared by the chimps, who fed him on their own diet and sheltered him until he was found and returned to civilisation. "He is a shy boy with the most wonderful smile and, because he was late learning to talk, he still speaks slowly. He also tends to greet people with a hug, much the same as chimpanzees, and when he hugs you, you know about it. It is an incredibly powerful hug." Mrs Cook treated 200 people in makeshift premises and slept in a hut riddled with bullets from the army of Uganda's former dictator, Idi Amin. As she mended teeth, often by torchlight, her daughter acted as a nurse. "We saw so much poverty," Mrs Cook said, "yet the people we met were wonderful." Complete report at: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/99/09/23/timfgnafr01001.html?19967 66 -- Sincerely, M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey --o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-- ---Simplicity of character is the result of profound thought.-- Anonymous ---<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights and "Fair Use": http://www.templetions.com/brad//copyright.html "This means that if you are doing things like comment on a copyrighted work, mak ing fun of it, teaching about it or researching it, you can make some limited use of the work w ithout permission. For example you can quote excerpts to show how poor the writing quality is. You can teach a course about T.S. Eliot and quote lines from his poems to the class to do so. So me people think fair use is a wholesale licence to copy if you don't charge or if you are in ed ucation, and it isn't. If you want to republish other stuff without permission and think you have a fa ir use defence, you should read the more detailed discussions of the subject you will find through t he links above." You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4987E at csam-lists.montclair.edu From HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu Sat Sep 25 19:14:18 1999 From: HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu (H. Mark Hubey) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:14:18 -0400 Subject: [language] language development Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Orphans likely to be eaten BY NIGEL HAWKES, SCIENCE EDITOR THE legend of the child raised by animals is found in the folklore of many cultures:from Romulus and Remus to Mowgli and Tarzan. Alas, science cannot corroborate a single instance. "A chimpanzee is more likely to eat an abandoned child than raise it," Phyllis Lee, a primatologist from the biological anthropology department at Cambridge, said. "I know of no case of a long-term adoption of a human infant by another primate. Gorillas will sometimes pick up and cuddle a child and if a female chimpanzee found a baby she might try to be motherly, but a male would almost certainly kill it. "In any case, there is no way a human child could survive in chimpanzee society. Babies can't cling to a female chimp's fur and a human infant couldn't follow chimps through the jungle searching for food. Anyway, most of the food the chimps in Uganda eat contains things that are toxic to human beings." From time to time, children do emerge from the woods apparently untouched by human company. In 1800, a boy was captured in the woods of Aveyron, southern France. Naked, filthy and unable to speak, the Wild Boy of Aveyron had no family and no history. Dr Lee, who has visited Uganda, said that there are many children there orphaned by war or Aids. She suspects that John may fall into this group. If it is true that he lacked human company from an early age, then experience indicates he will find it difficult to catch up. The boy from Aveyron was befriended by a young doctor, Jean-Marc Itard, who tried to civilise him. He got him to wear clothes and use cutlery, but he never truly learnt to speak. The same was true of Genie, a girl from Temple City, California, imprisoned by her father until she was 13. She could say only "Stopit" and "Nomore" and never constructed sentences. The key period for learning languages had passed by the time she emerged. http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/99/09/23/timfgnafr01002.html?19967 -- Sincerely, M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey --o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-- ---Simplicity of character is the result of profound thought.-- Anonymous ---<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights and "Fair Use": http://www.templetions.com/brad//copyright.html "This means that if you are doing things like comment on a copyrighted work, mak ing fun of it, teaching about it or researching it, you can make some limited use of the work w ithout permission. For example you can quote excerpts to show how poor the writing quality is. You can teach a course about T.S. Eliot and quote lines from his poems to the class to do so. So me people think fair use is a wholesale licence to copy if you don't charge or if you are in ed ucation, and it isn't. If you want to republish other stuff without permission and think you have a fa ir use defence, you should read the more detailed discussions of the subject you will find through t he links above." You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4987E at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Thu Sep 2 22:24:40 1999 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M.Hubey) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 1999 18:24:40 -0400 Subject: [language] Ancient Voices Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> "Ancient Voices": BBC2 1st Sept 99 UK "The Hunt for the First Americans" (ceefax p623) The program concentrated on Serra da Capivara - a rocky outcrop of cliffs and valleys in NE Brazil. (About equidistant from the mouth of the Amazon, the point of deepest projection of the Pacific into S America halfway up its west coast, and the Atlantic (South of the eastermost point of S America)). Walter Neves (University of SaoPaulo) said: "This is very clear in South America: all populations I have in my data set from the whole of South America, from 7,000 to the present, they're absolutely classic Mongoloid. Everything I have more than 9,000 is absolutely non-Mongoloid..." The program reported the rock paintings in Serra da Capivara are "Much older than the American Indians. The hunters are chasing giant armadillos. The animal flourished during the ice-age - long before the arrival of the Indians." There was said to be a playful feel to the pictures, including a standing couple leaning over and kissing. Portrayed were: "a net to catch deer", a stick for getting honey from beehives, 3 people helping someone give birth...men in disguise dancing with women. One of the wall paintings shows a number of figures, but have been interpreted as a single person running, jumping and spearing someone else. These scenes of possible conflict only begin to appear after the arrival of the Mongoloids. This was the only suggestion as to might have painted them. French diggers found what looked like quartzite hand axes in levels 40,000 years old. At 50,000 year old levels they seemed to find hearths with nearby food (animal) leftovers. Anne-marie Pessis, one of the workers there, tells a story of some modern fishermen off the coast of Africa, making it to Brazil, to illustrate how possible it is. (It took three weeks. It really is relatively quite easy to make that crossing.) 9-12,000 year old skulls found elsewhere in Brazil were said to be the oldest in the Americas. A solid reconstruction was made of the oldest of them all ("Lucia" [sp?]) by Richard Neave of Manchester Uni, who said "That to me is a Negroid face [...] it has all the features you'd associate..." It shared features with types found traditionally around the Indian Ocean rim. Flashing now to Australian rock shelters with images painted "10's of thousands of years ago"... One contains a high prowed boat (thought therefore to be ocean going) and thought to be the oldest boat picture in the world. Graham Walsh (Aus rock-art specialist) says their distinctive head-dresses associate the figures in the boat with a type of figuration called "Simple Northern Figures" found in that part of the North Kimberley (which are considered "pre-spear throwers" since conflict scenes of that type elsewhere do not show them, and woomeras are first seen 17,000 years ago). He talks in terms of "Up to 50,000 years ago" for the boat picture. [Of course the boats would have been used a long way from *that* painting, but anyway we already knew the first Australians had to cross - is it 200 miles? - by boat, even if it were at a time of low ocean water level.] It has convinced me. (Odd they never made Madagascar though.) More recent skulls from Tierra del Fuego are said to show more similarity to the Australian model. (Good 70-year-old footage of Fuegans and their huts, canoes (with constant fires, on layers of damp grass), bows and arrows...) >From a perhaps more on-topic point of view, male Fuegans (70 years ago) revealed that their secret ceremonies referred to times in the distant past when society was run by women, and it would not do to let them know that today, lest the men lost their grip on power. Similar legends are said to have been recorded among modern Australian aborigines. [That would be a long time for a legend to last though. The legend of the first horse amongst N American indians didn't last very long - in any tribe]. John V Jackson ---<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights and "Fair Use": http://www.templetions.com/brad//copyright.html "This means that if you are doing things like comment on a copyrighted work, mak ing fun of it, teaching about it or researching it, you can make some limited use of the work w ithout permission. For example you can quote excerpts to show how poor the writing quality is. You can teach a course about T.S. Eliot and quote lines from his poems to the class to do so. So me people think fair use is a wholesale licence to copy if you don't charge or if you are in ed ucation, and it isn't. If you want to republish other stuff without permission and think you have a fa ir use defence, you should read the more detailed discussions of the subject you will find through t he links above." You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4987E at csam-lists.montclair.edu From HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu Wed Sep 15 07:16:46 1999 From: HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu (H. Mark Hubey) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 1999 03:16:46 -0400 Subject: [language] new address Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> The address for the list has changed. It is now at language at csam-lists.montclair.edu Please make a note of this for future reference. -- Sincerely, M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey --o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-- ---Simplicity of character is the result of profound thought.-- Anonymous ---<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights and "Fair Use": http://www.templetions.com/brad//copyright.html "This means that if you are doing things like comment on a copyrighted work, mak ing fun of it, teaching about it or researching it, you can make some limited use of the work w ithout permission. For example you can quote excerpts to show how poor the writing quality is. You can teach a course about T.S. Eliot and quote lines from his poems to the class to do so. So me people think fair use is a wholesale licence to copy if you don't charge or if you are in ed ucation, and it isn't. If you want to republish other stuff without permission and think you have a fa ir use defence, you should read the more detailed discussions of the subject you will find through t he links above." You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4987E at csam-lists.montclair.edu From HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu Sat Sep 25 19:10:49 1999 From: HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu (H. Mark Hubey) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:10:49 -0400 Subject: [language] language development Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Choirboy 'brought up by chimpanzees' BY PAUL WILKINSON IN A story straight from the pages of Edgar Rice Burroughs, a boy said to have been brought up by apes in the rain forest is coming to Britain to sing with a children's choir. The visit is being arranged by Hilary Cook, a dentist. She met the boy, a 14-year-old known as John, and was told his story while she was working in a remote settlement 100 miles from Kampala this summer. John's parents had been killed in a tribal skirmish when he was 2 and he was abandoned in the forest. A colony of chimpanzees apparently came across the toddler and began to care for him. They fed him fruit, nuts and berries, sheltered him and treated him as one of their own. For the next four years, the story goes, John lived with the chimpanzees, out of sight of any human beings. He grew to believe he was an ape and learnt to forage for food. Then, eight years ago, a tribesman saw what he thought was a naked boy roaming with the apes. At first no one believed him, but, when he persisted, a group set off to investigate. When they found John, he fled in fear from the human beings and his chimpanzee benefactors put up a ferocious fight to prevent the tribesmen taking him away. However, the boy was caught and taken to the Kamuzinda Christian Orphanage, where he lived with the family of the orphanage manager, who set about teaching him civilised ways. They discovered that he could say nothing beyond a few animal noises, so they first had to teach him to speak. In the course of his lessons, it was discovered that he had a fine singing voice. John joined a 20-strong children's choir that has since become famous in the area. Now Mrs Cook, 56, a mother of five children, has arranged to bring the choir on a tour of Britain next month, singing African and Christian songs. The cost will be met by the BBC, which sent a film crew to Uganda to make a programme about John that will be screened later next month. Mrs Cook, from Bannercross in Sheffield, said: "It is an incredible story and there is great excitement about the choir's trip. Many people want to meet John. "You hear stories of children being brought up in the jungle by animals, but most people think it happens only in books and films. But, in John's case, it was true. His chances of survival were nil until the family of chimpanzees came along and began to care for him. "From that point until he was aged about 6, he was reared by the chimps, who fed him on their own diet and sheltered him until he was found and returned to civilisation. "He is a shy boy with the most wonderful smile and, because he was late learning to talk, he still speaks slowly. He also tends to greet people with a hug, much the same as chimpanzees, and when he hugs you, you know about it. It is an incredibly powerful hug." Mrs Cook treated 200 people in makeshift premises and slept in a hut riddled with bullets from the army of Uganda's former dictator, Idi Amin. As she mended teeth, often by torchlight, her daughter acted as a nurse. "We saw so much poverty," Mrs Cook said, "yet the people we met were wonderful." Complete report at: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/99/09/23/timfgnafr01001.html?19967 66 -- Sincerely, M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey --o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-- ---Simplicity of character is the result of profound thought.-- Anonymous ---<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights and "Fair Use": http://www.templetions.com/brad//copyright.html "This means that if you are doing things like comment on a copyrighted work, mak ing fun of it, teaching about it or researching it, you can make some limited use of the work w ithout permission. For example you can quote excerpts to show how poor the writing quality is. You can teach a course about T.S. Eliot and quote lines from his poems to the class to do so. So me people think fair use is a wholesale licence to copy if you don't charge or if you are in ed ucation, and it isn't. If you want to republish other stuff without permission and think you have a fa ir use defence, you should read the more detailed discussions of the subject you will find through t he links above." You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4987E at csam-lists.montclair.edu From HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu Sat Sep 25 19:14:18 1999 From: HubeyH at Mail.Montclair.edu (H. Mark Hubey) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 15:14:18 -0400 Subject: [language] language development Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Orphans likely to be eaten BY NIGEL HAWKES, SCIENCE EDITOR THE legend of the child raised by animals is found in the folklore of many cultures:from Romulus and Remus to Mowgli and Tarzan. Alas, science cannot corroborate a single instance. "A chimpanzee is more likely to eat an abandoned child than raise it," Phyllis Lee, a primatologist from the biological anthropology department at Cambridge, said. "I know of no case of a long-term adoption of a human infant by another primate. Gorillas will sometimes pick up and cuddle a child and if a female chimpanzee found a baby she might try to be motherly, but a male would almost certainly kill it. "In any case, there is no way a human child could survive in chimpanzee society. Babies can't cling to a female chimp's fur and a human infant couldn't follow chimps through the jungle searching for food. Anyway, most of the food the chimps in Uganda eat contains things that are toxic to human beings." From time to time, children do emerge from the woods apparently untouched by human company. In 1800, a boy was captured in the woods of Aveyron, southern France. Naked, filthy and unable to speak, the Wild Boy of Aveyron had no family and no history. Dr Lee, who has visited Uganda, said that there are many children there orphaned by war or Aids. She suspects that John may fall into this group. If it is true that he lacked human company from an early age, then experience indicates he will find it difficult to catch up. The boy from Aveyron was befriended by a young doctor, Jean-Marc Itard, who tried to civilise him. He got him to wear clothes and use cutlery, but he never truly learnt to speak. The same was true of Genie, a girl from Temple City, California, imprisoned by her father until she was 13. She could say only "Stopit" and "Nomore" and never constructed sentences. The key period for learning languages had passed by the time she emerged. http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/tim/99/09/23/timfgnafr01002.html?19967 -- Sincerely, M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey --o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-~-o-- ---Simplicity of character is the result of profound thought.-- Anonymous ---<><><><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights and "Fair Use": http://www.templetions.com/brad//copyright.html "This means that if you are doing things like comment on a copyrighted work, mak ing fun of it, teaching about it or researching it, you can make some limited use of the work w ithout permission. For example you can quote excerpts to show how poor the writing quality is. You can teach a course about T.S. Eliot and quote lines from his poems to the class to do so. So me people think fair use is a wholesale licence to copy if you don't charge or if you are in ed ucation, and it isn't. If you want to republish other stuff without permission and think you have a fa ir use defence, you should read the more detailed discussions of the subject you will find through t he links above." You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4987E at csam-lists.montclair.edu