[language] Re: [Fwd: bez, bUz, burush]

[H. Mark Hubey]

<><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><>




Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
>
> as Umit has pointed out it entered as mongolian as bo"s with -s not -r
> representing turkic -z so it can't be ancient.

Sound changes usually go from unvoiced to voiced, thus we'd
expect s > z.

> now it is not "just one word". there are also numerous examples
> of *dh* > z > r. kashgari (11th cent.) mentions the change
> *dh*  > z . a specific example given is a*dh*aq > azaq (probably
> in actual pronounciation azax or azag~). there is also the azaq sea
> (probably for a*dh*aq, i.e "foot" referring to the sea of azov).
> however in chuvash it is ura~ (through *azIg~). another well known
> loan exhibiting such *dh* > > r is middle persian a:*dh*i:na,
> "friday" in volga bulghar i:rne, chuvash erne ("sunday" ?).
>
> the volghabulghars had trade and contacts with iranian speaking
> khwarezm.

The word is ayak in common Turkic so what I knew from reading
was that /dh/ > y.

But this is not the main problem at all.


> > allegedly
> > both come from Arabic bazz and ultimately from Greek byssos.
>
> it ultimately comes from ancient egyptian, according to rona tas
> "chuvash studies".

This is the main problem.

See, there must have been a time in which weaving of clothing
was invented. The earliest 'skirt' was found somewhere in the
Mideast and the article said that it was a grass-skirt. I
think that was circa 9,000 BC or so.

So somewhere between then and now, humanity learned to
twirl wool to get thread and then to weave it.

The problem is that the word "bur" means "to rotate,
to twirl".

Secondly, as Dr. Tuna has shown convincincgly and as I
demonstrated in my paper at the conference in Turkey, there
are very ancient/archaic words in Turkic that go back to
Sumerian or Mideast. For some reason the words are more
archaic and the likelihood is that the original form is
preserved. So Egyptian, Greek, Arabic forms are all from
a version in which the sound was /r/ or /dh/ which
changed to /r/. It does not also sound unreal to relate
'bur' to 'bu' (to grow, as in plants growing), especially
if the original form was from grass. Also see below.


> >
> > However, the word for wrinkling in Turkish is burush. I think this has
> > to be
> > taken into consideration, and I think that as in other such pairs such
> > as yUz/yUrU, and kOr/kOz, this is related to bUz. The word bez was
>
> you have to be careful about these pairs. they may be due to
> different suffixes or may be unrelated, as possibly yUrU=
> and yUz=

As I already wrote this in Altainet. The likelihood is that the original
verbal suffix in Turkic (or at least the earlier one) was -r or -rV
not -lV as it is today. The word yUrU/cUrU seems to be an early form
and thus derives from the root cU/yU. Since we know that Turkic c and
y go back to d, this means the root was 'du'. That is the word for
'to walk' in Sumerian. And it originally could have meant travel in
or via water since yul is "spring, water, brook". And yUz/cUz means
"to swim". So it probably referred to early transportation via
water and later came to be applied to land transport. We can see this
from 'yol' (road). All fits together neatly.


--

....Mark
hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu

---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Copyrights/"Fair Use":  http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things
such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education
about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's
important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express
your own works -- only the ability to express other people's.
Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are
important considerations.

You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu