From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Wed Dec 11 03:12:10 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:12:10 -0500 Subject: [language] pseudo philosophy of science Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> I found this in Science, p. 967, 1 Nov 2002. It is about the perennial issue of what is science, how is it done, and related issues of philosophy of science, such as confirmationism, verificationism, falsificationism etc. The difference is that it is written without the philosophical jargon. --------------------------------------------------------------- ...Archimedes made the following astonishingly subtle deduction:... (the famous Eurako episode).. Austere and technical as they are, Archimedes' treatises are just as striking as the anecdotes about him. In the treatises three motives run together: proof, amazement, and the juxtaposition of the unexpected. Proof and amazement are related because Archimedes amazes by proving that something that is very surprising is in fact is true. Amazement and juxtaposition of the unexpected are related, because the amazing result is usually seen in the equality or equivalence of two seemingly separate domains. ---------------------------------------- But now we can clearly see what is practiced by scientists now as a matter of course. Since the easy parts have already been done (e.g. physics, engineering, etc) the massive amounts of available data in the social sciences requires high-powered statistical analysis programs. However everything here is applied directly. Indeed, one can see the "surprise" factor in physics e.g. a strange theory based on waves all of a sudden predicts something amazing, etc. It saddens me that there are physicists who still have not understood the basis of science. I would assume that their probability theory is either weak or nonexistent or their comprehension of logic (as used by philosophers) is disconnected from anything in the real world. It seems like this list was silent for a very long time and it seems like a good time to wake it up by discussing Popper or anything else that comes to mind. -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Wed Dec 11 04:35:10 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:35:10 -0500 Subject: [language] [Fwd: Re: Sensationalism in Science and Philosophy] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Sensationalism in Science and Philosophy Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:18:57 +0000 From: linguist at linguistlist.org To: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu I'm sorry, but we must return your posting on this topic, because the moderators have closed this thread to further discussion at this time, and notice of this decision has been announced to the list. We sincerely regret having to return your message. Perhaps you can continue the discussion privately. Regards, LINGUIST From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Mon May 20 01:25:56 2002 Delivered-To: linguist at linguistlist.org Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:57:48 -0400 From: "H.M. Hubey" Subject: Sensationalism in Science and Philosophy To: The LINGUIST Network , ploch at languages.wits.ac.za, dan_everett at sil.org MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD BA45DSL (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en,pdf I would like to thank Dr. Ploch for his long post clearing the air and clarifying the confused state of matters. I would also like to add a few comments which are germane. First of all, these discussions are extremely important for linguistics. Around the 1930s people like Paul Samuelson were known as "mathematical economists". Today "economist" means "mathematical economist". And the term "literary economist" is reserved for those who would like to litter the landscape with tossed word salads. To me a person is a "literary economist" like Jules Verne is a "literary physicist". Obviously, Verne was a science fiction writer. One day there will also be "literary linguists". The times are changing, and they always did. Around 1950 "computer" was a human, like an engineer, or accountant. Hence the words for machines had the adjective "automatic" in front of it e.g. EDVAC, UNIVAC etc, because at that time sophisticated-machines were called "automatic". One day, the adjective "mathematical" will not be necessary when using the word "linguist". Over the last 300 years or so strange things have happened and strange ideas have become sold as 'truth'. I was shocked to find one of my students put on her web page that she 'practices wiccan'. All this is due to lack of knowledge about what science is. And it is not really very recent, but has been going on for centuries. The great [anti] hero of movies and films moved into the science field and usurped it. The earliest such event was the ridicule heaped upon Isaac Newton and his "mathematics" by the philosopher Berkeley (and his cronies who called Newton to their "court" and [allegedly] demolished his whole edifice) who today is not known for much more than what can best be explained as "what I don't see does not exist." The story of science has been told incorrectly by those who had a lot to lose from its successes. Let us not forget that Newton did "natural philosophy" (not "physics"). The best explanation of why science developed the way it did and why it had to essentially this deterministic path is in August Comte's book. (Unfortunately, I could only read the English translation by Andreski, not the original French.) But he too was put away by those who had much to lose, and who did not understand what was written. Then during this century we had Feyerabend who "proves" that witchcraft is science. When he gave this talk at Stanford a student asked him why he does not fly brooms instead of airplanes, and his answer was "I understand planes but not brooms."! How can this con-artist even show is face anywhere? Then finally, the dam burst when that ignoramus Searle decided to do one better and wrote his little work on why there will never be intelligent machines. There was a companion article in the Scientific American by the philosopher couple Mr/Ms Churchland. It is only too painfully clear that Searle does not even understand what was written, and has no ability to even think of complex issues in that article of his in Scientific American. But this is all what post-everything movement is about. There was a great deal of ridicule of Searle, which like a true con-man he merely termed "hostility". But it looks like the tide has turned. The big attack was launched by two physicists, Sokol and Bricmont, and it was the hoax article which they got published in a prestigious journal. In fact, one can find the website where there is a "postmodernism generator". It creates a new postmodernist article automatically everytime you click on the button. That is how much gibberish there is in that movement which, to me, includes people like Feyerabend, Searle, and Kuhn. Nothing succeeds like success, and it looks like things are going back to sanity. All of this is not much more than earlier replays of what Bill Gates did to the world (mostly America). A much more reliable operating system Linux is available for free. Just think a minute. If there were free cars outperforming Lexus, Benz, Infiniti and BMW, how long would these manufacturers stay in business? The WebServer Apache was so good that there is even a version of it that runs on Gates' Windows operating systems and yet he still sells his IIS. Why? Most people say that they use Windows only because they have to use MS-Office and that because their old files are in these packages. But there is Star-Office, which is probably still free and it produces basically MS-Office compatable files. So why does Bill Gates still hold the world by its testicles? That is the same reason why Feyerabend, Kuhn, Searle are still enjoying a kind of [anti] hero fame. Who are they fighting and why are they so popular? Obviously, I recommend reading Popper, Comte, and others who wrote on science like Mach, Frank, Paulos, Schroedinger, etc. Their works are less "heroic" than those of Feyerabend, Searle and Kuhn but they are much closer to the mark on how science is and was really done. And that is why linguists should broaden their readings to others than those who are greatly popular in the "mainstream". Look at Gates' Windows and Office? Free products are better than those. That speaks volumes about the mass marketing of products and ideas. -- M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:03:27 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:03:27 -0800 Subject: [language] Sound Changes Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> I clipped the following from this website. I want to make some off-the-cuff comments (later). http://members.tripod.com/~hettiarachchi/sinhala.html For example, in Sanskrit, the sound r takes more prominence, appearing in many words. This is not so in Prakrit (Pali) which has a tendency to eliminate this sound. In turn Pali words possessed a high proportion of double consonants, a feature that was eliminated in Sinhala. This had taken place by the 3rd century B.C. as borne out by the earliest cave inscriptions. Sanskrit Pali Sinhala karman kamma kam (work) marga magga maga (path ) Other sound changes include the change of ch to s, which took place during the 8th century A.C. and became regular by the 10th century. Pali Sinhala gachach gasa (tree) kuchchi kusa (womb) The change of p to v which occured between the 1st-2nd centuries A.C. Pali Sinhala rupa ruva (form) papa pau (sin) The change of j to d, which first took place in the 4th century A.C. and became regular by the 9th century. Pali Sinhala vejja vedha (physician) ajja adha (today) and the change of t to l, which as the renowned German philologist, Wilhelm Geiger has noted, took place through an intermediate d. This occured sometime between the 6th-10th centuries A.C. Pali Sinhala putavi polova (earth) mata mala (dead) There also exist a number of other sound changes that characterize Sinhala and distinguish it from its North Indian sister languages. The change of Sanskrit s to h and the latterÕs eventual disappearance is unique to Sinhala amongst Aryan languages, although such changes have occured in other Indo-European languages such as Greek and Armenian. We know from ancient Sinhalese inscriptions that the Sanskrit surya (sun) had become hir by the 9th century and hira by the end of the 12th century. This in turn became the present day ira by the 15th century. Owing to its geographical isolation, Sinhala has also preserved a number of old Aryan archaisms not found in any of the North Indian vernaculars. For example, whereas Sinhala, like Pali, has preserved the initial y of old Indo-Aryan, this has been changed to j in all the modern North Indian languages derived from Sanskrit. Sanskrit yati (go), Hindi jana, Bengali jay, Sinhala yanna. Some Sinhala words have however died out and been replaced by Pali or Sanskrit. For example, the old sinhala la (heart) occuring the Sigiri graffiti (8th-10 centuries) as la-kol hellambuyun (heart shattering fair damsels) is today extinct and has been replaced by the Pali hada. Similarly, the old Sinhala ag (fire) has been replaced by the Pali gini. The old Sinhala term for horse, as today exists only in compound terms such as as-val (horse-hair), as-hala (stable) and as-govva (horse-keeper) and has been superseded by the Sanskrit ashva. Such old Sinhala words like dana (people), rada (king), and pungul (person) have to all, intents and purposes ceased to exist, and have been superseded by their respective Sanskrit equivalents, jana, raja and pudgala. But by no means is pure Sinhala or Elu(as it is known in literary circles) confined to Sri Lanka. The speech of the Maldivian islanders, Divehi bas, is in fact a dialect of Sinhala, which branched off from the parent language sometime between the 4th-8th centuries. ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:10:58 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:10:58 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes1 Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > I clipped the following from this website. I want to make some > off-the-cuff comments (later). > > http://members.tripod.com/~hettiarachchi/sinhala.html > > For example, in Sanskrit, the sound r takes more prominence, appearing > in many words. This is not so in Prakrit (Pali) which has a tendency > to eliminate this sound. In turn Pali words possessed a high > proportion of double consonants, a feature that was eliminated in > Sinhala. This had taken place by the 3rd century B.C. as borne out by > the earliest cave inscriptions. > > Sanskrit Pali Sinhala > karman kamma kam (work) > marga magga maga (path ) > The mar- root has to be related to Hittite pai, Turkic bar, Latin ped, and Persian pai (foot). I can't believe that d>y or y>d. The sound must have been *dh, as seen in Turkic (attested). Any comments. Furthermore, like the PIE p > Germanic f which was caused by nonIE speakers causing the change (Comrie), I believe dh>d was caused by nonIE learners. Comments appreciated. > ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:12:13 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:12:13 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes2 ts> s or ch > s Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Other sound changes include the change of ch to s, which took place > during the 8th century A.C. and became regular by the 10th century. > > Pali Sinhala > gachach gasa (tree) > kuchchi kusa (womb) > I find this extremely hard to believe. What if it was ts and not ch? Then the t could have disappeared leaving s. Any comments? ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:14:27 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:14:27 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes3 p>v and p>u and a>0 Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > The change of p to v which occured between the 1st-2nd centuries A.C. > > Pali Sinhala > rupa ruva (form) > papa pau (sin) > THis is irregular. So how regular is regularity supposed to be? When I posted Tuna's Turko-Sumerian list, there were lots of complaints. And that after 4,000-5,000 years. Now in a few hundred years, instead of papa>pava, we have pau. Would this pass muster normally? > ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:16:44 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:16:44 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes4 jj>dh or j>d Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > The change of j to d, which first took place in the 4th century A.C. > and became regular by > the 9th century. > > Pali Sinhala > vejja vedha (physician) > ajja adha (today) > IT seems like jj changed to dh, not j>d. Is that corred? Is the dh supposed to be aspirated, or voiced-fricative? HOw do we know Pali was not vedja and adja? ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:20:56 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:20:56 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes 5 t>l nor not Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > and the change of t to l, which as the renowned German philologist, > Wilhelm Geiger has noted, took place through an intermediate d. This > occured sometime between the 6th-10th centuries A.C. > > Pali Sinhala > putavi polova (earth) > mata mala (dead) > I do not believe that either. I think it was th > l, like in Hittite tabarna/labarna and in many others. Or the th was not really that but more like the Circassian sounds e.g. the iron-worker in their Nart Sagas has the name Tlepsh. The word for iron is temir, tibira, etc and connected with heat e.g., temperature, tepid, tab, etc. So Circassian has the first syllable e.g. tlep. I cannot justify this except on the basis of nothing more than "symmetry". See for example Van Fraazen "Symmetry and Science" or something like it. Or Lord James Clerk Maxwell's fixing up the known laws of electromagnetism on the basis of symmetry. Comments? ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:26:15 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:26:15 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes 6 h >s or not? Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > There also exist a number of other sound changes that characterize > Sinhala and distinguish it from its North Indian sister languages. The > change of Sanskrit s to h and the latterÕs eventual disappearance is > unique to Sinhala amongst Aryan languages, although such changes > I guess by now it should be clear :-) I do not believe this happened either. I have been asking for an attestation of k>s for a long time. IT seems to me what happened is 1) th > t >s or t > s 2) t > k > h Any comments? > have occured in other Indo-European languages such as Greek and > Armenian. We know from ancient Sinhalese inscriptions that the > Sanskrit surya (sun) had become hir by the 9th century and hira by the > end of the 12th century. > THis can't be right. There is some kind of an error in transmission. It cannot lose the -ya and then gain it back as -a. It sounds too unbelievable. Something else happened. Maybe different dialects got into writing at different times by taking over, or else some other shift occurred. There should be some general principles of linguistics that inhibits this kind of stuff from being passed off as "fact" when so many other possibilities exist. Comments? > This in turn became the present day ira by the 15th century. > This makes sense. It is easy enough to believe h>0 but if it comes back again, whoaaa. ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:36:14 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:36:14 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes 7 y ? j/c Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Owing to its geographical isolation, Sinhala has also preserved a > number of old Aryan archaisms not found in any of the North Indian > vernaculars. For example, whereas Sinhala, like Pali, has preserved > the initial y of old Indo-Aryan, this has been changed to j in all the > modern North Indian languages derived from Sanskrit. In Turkic this is a problem. According to Doerfer, the initial y and c/j in Turkic come from a *d. It might have been some other (but related sound). But it seems like, here is a case where we can look for rules. It is a serious problem when anything changes to anything. If there are rules and there is regularity then it has to be more uniform. In any case, if this field is to become scientific we have to look for them. Any candidate sounds instead of *d, or *dh, or the just-as-unpalatable y>c. > Sanskrit yati (go), Hindi jana, Bengali jay, Sinhala yanna. > Could it have been a palatalized g, e.g like Magyar gy which shows up in Turkic as y, or c. e.g. Gyula=dulo, and later yula, and Magyar > Macar. Is that possible? > Some Sinhala words have however died out and been replaced by Pali or > Sanskrit. For example, the old sinhala la (heart) occuring the Sigiri > graffiti (8th-10 centuries) as la-kol hellambuyun (heart shattering > fair damsels) is today extinct and has been replaced by the Pali hada. > Here we see it again, d=l, and/or apparently h=l. It seems fricative-for-fricative is much better than anything for anything. If such a thing occurs the receiving language should be substituting a sound it has for one it does not have. Again it seems like th>dh>d and th>l. This also seems pretty irregular. > Similarly, the old Sinhala ag (fire) has been replaced by the Pali > gini. The old Sinhala term for horse, as today exists only in compound > Ditto here. It seems like they both derive from agni, e.g. agni > ag, and agni> gini. > terms such as as-val (horse-hair), as-hala (stable) and as-govva > (horse-keeper) and has been superseded by the Sanskrit ashva. > > Such old Sinhala words like dana (people), rada (king), and pungul > (person) have to all, intents and purposes ceased to exist, and have > been superseded by their respective Sanskrit equivalents, jana, raja > and pudgala. > Here too, I see what I see in Turkic and Hittite dh> ng>n, and sometimes n=m. Like-for-like. Is there no such principle? ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:53:28 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:53:28 -0800 Subject: [language] courtesy Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> If you post to this mailing list please follow common courtesy and delete all extra garbage. ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Wed Dec 4 04:04:47 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:04:47 -0500 Subject: [language] [Fwd: [evol-psych] Infants go to school early on grammar] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> December 2, 2002 Infants go to school early on grammar WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - A Purdue University psychology professor says that infants appear to understand much more than they are given credit for. "Infants appear to learn words and grammar simultaneously," says George Hollich, director of the Infant Language Lab and assistant professor of psychological sciences. "This underscores the importance of talking to them, early and often." Hollich is studying how infants learn language in the Infant Language Lab, a component of the Purdue Baby Lab in the School of Liberal Arts. The Baby Lab is co-directed by Hollich and Barbara Younger-Rossmann, who also is director of the Infant Cognition Lab. Babies, ages 5 months to 2 years, participate in both labs. "If you consider the almost infinite number of words, as well as the potential mappings between words and meanings, learning a language ought to be impossible," says Hollich, whose research is funded by Purdue. "Our studies are determining how infants discover words in the fluent stream of speech, how they learn the meaning of those words and how they come to understand grammar." It had been believed that children learn language step-by-step from one word to the next, but Hollich's research indicates that infants may be learning words and grammar simultaneously. For example, in one study Hollich is attempting to find out if infants understand just words, or if they can understand the whole sentence. "Do they understand, 'Where is the flower?' versus 'What hit the flower?' or are they hearing 'Blah, blah, blah flower?'" Hollich says. To address this issue a baby is shown a series of short animated sequences, such as an apple repetitively colliding with a flower. Then another screen will show the apple in one corner and the flower in the other. A voice asks "What hit the flower? " Because these babies don't talk, their answers are recorded by how long they gaze at each item. If the baby looks longer at the apple it shows the child understands the question. If the baby looks at the flower, it shows they identify the word "flower," but don't comprehend the question. By 15 months, children do look directly at the correct image. "This finding is surprising considering that most experts would predict that infants should look at the object specifically mentioned in the question, and infants will do this, but only if the question is 'Where is the flower?' Hollich says. "Thus, from the earliest ages tested, infants are demonstrating a surprising amount of linguistic savvy. This shows kids understand more than just a few words, and that babies understand grammar much earlier than previously thought." Hollich's other research focuses on the ways children learn to recognize their native language. Hollich is collaborating with a researcher from the University of Postdam in Berlin. The question in this study is whether the melody of speech, regardless of the specific words, is noticed by infants who hear only English. Each infant hears two types of German passages, one set of passages has a melody (or prosody) similar to English, even though the words aren't. Other passages had a very different and more typically German prosody. "The results still need to be evaluated, but we think that English babies will like the passages with English prosody, while we know the German babies like the passages that are more typically German sounding," Hollich says. "In this way, we will see if infants can use the melody of speech in early language learning, which might help explain why all cultures tend to talk in a very funny way to their children - an exaggerated sing-song melody that researchers have coined infant-directed speech." Another study involves streaming, in which children find words in speech. These experiments indicate that infants can use what they see to help them follow a person speaking in what can often be a noisy and distracting environment. "Kids can use what they see to hear better," Hollich says. "When you talk to the child, let them see your face, because my research suggests that seeing the person's face is very important to help infants hear, especially when it is noisy. In general, visual information is more important than a lot of researchers would have thought." About 20 to 40 children participate weekly at the language lab, and each study requires 32 to 50 babies. Babies who participate receive a gift and a certificate. For more information about participating in the Infant Language Lab, call (765) 494-6928. The studies take less than 30 minutes. Writer: Amy Patterson-Neubert, (765) 494-9723, apatterson at purdue.edu Source: George Hollich, (765) 494-2224, ghollich at purdue.edu Purdue News Service: (765) 494-2096; purduenews at purdue.edu Related Web site: Purdue Baby Labs http://www.psych.purdue.edu/~babylab/ http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/021202.Hollich.babytalk.html -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Fri Dec 6 17:53:16 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:53:16 -0800 Subject: [language] Earliest New World writing revealed] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Earliest New World writing revealed 19:00 05 December 02 NewScientist.com news service The discovery of a fist-sized ceramic cylinder and fragments of engraved plaques has pushed back the earliest evidence of writing in the Americas by at least 350 years to 650 BC. Rolling the cylinder printed symbols indicating allegiance to a king - a striking difference from the Old World, where the oldest known writing was used for keeping records by the first accountants. Full text http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993151 ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Sun Dec 15 03:09:42 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:09:42 -0500 Subject: [language] list Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> There are rumors spreading that this list is moderated. It is not. It is not censored or moderated. But the server is often down. If anyone has tried to post and has not succeeded I would like to know. Because of the problems we have with the server I am thinking of moving it to something like yahoogroups.com. Any comments? Please post to the mailing list. -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Sun Dec 15 03:10:58 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:10:58 -0500 Subject: [language] Kessler Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> I just picked up a copy of Brett Kessler's book. It seems like an interesting book. Has anyone read it? -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Mon Dec 16 15:20:28 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:20:28 -0500 Subject: [language] [Fwd: [evol-psych] Journey" Redraws Humans' Family Tree] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Journey" Redraws Humans' Family Tree Hillary Mayell for National Geographic News December 13, 2002 By analyzing DNA from people in all regions of the world, geneticist Spencer Wells has concluded that all humans alive today are descended from a single man who lived in Africa around 60,000 years ago. Modern humans, he contends, didn't start their spread across the globe until after that time. Most archaeologists would say the exodus began 100,000 years ago-a 40,000-year discrepancy. Wells's take on the origins of modern humans and how they came to populate the rest of the planet is bound to be controversial. His work adds to an already crowded field of opposing hypotheses proposed by those who seek answers in "stones and bones"-archaeologists and paleoanthropologists-and those who seek them in our blood-population geneticists and molecular biologists. In Journey of Man, Spencer Wells traces human evolution from Africa through Asia to the Navajo people of North America. Photograph copyright Mark Read, National Geographic Channels International Journey of Man premieres internationally Sunday, December 15, on the National Geographic Channel. It airs on January 21, 2003, in the United States on PBS. Consult your local TV listings. The book, The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey, was published in the United Kingdom in October 2002. It will be released in the United States by Princeton University Press in January 2003. Over the last decade, major debate on whether early humans evolved in Africa or elsewhere, when they began outward migration, where they went, and whether they interbred with or replaced archaic species has moved out of scientific journals and into the public consciousness. Full text http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/12/1212_021213_journeyofman.html News in Brain and Behavioural Sciences - Issue 81 - 14th December, 2002 http://human-nature.com/nibbs/issue81.html -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 17 02:18:56 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:18:56 -0500 Subject: [language] [ a little game] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Here is a little game. Here are some words that mean "good" in various Turkic languages from various places and times. 1. edgU where U=u" Karaxanid (Erdal in book by Johanson and Csato) 2. iyi Turkish (This could also be eyi) 3. igi Karachay-Balkar (Kipchak branch, North Caucasus) 4. yaxshi many Turkic languages 5. ashxI where I=dotless Turkish i, (karachay-balkar) This is a good example of what I have against IEanists. They just keep creating new roots as they need them. All they need is an asterisk. 1. Are there two roots here or one? 2. What was the original form? 3. How did you derive it? -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 31 17:49:07 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M.Hubey) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:49:07 -0500 Subject: [language] kessler review Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -------------- next part -------------- LINGUIST List 13.491 Fri Feb 22 2002 Review: Kessler, The Significance of Word Lists Editor for this issue: Terence Langendoen > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What follows is another discussion note contributed to our Book Discussion Forum. We expect these discussions to be informal and interactive; and the author of the book discussed is cordially invited to join in. If you are interested in leading a book discussion, look for books announced on LINGUIST as "available for discussion." (This means that the publisher has sent us a review copy.) Then contact Simin Karimi at simin at linguistlist.org or Terry Langendoen at terry at linguistlist.org . Subscribe to Blackwell's LL+ at http://www.linguistlistplus.com/ and donate 20% of your subscription to LINGUIST! You get 30% off on Blackwells books, and free shipping and postage! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Directory 1. John & Debbie Clifton, Review of Kessler: The Significance of Word Lists ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Message 1: Review of Kessler: The Significance of Word Lists Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:59:53 +0400 From: John & Debbie Clifton > Subject: Review of Kessler: The Significance of Word Lists Kessler, Brett. 2001. The Significance of Word Lists. CSLI Publications, x+277pp, hardback ISBN 1-57586-299-9, paperback ISBN 1-57586-300-6, Dissertations in Linguistics. Announced at http://linguistlist.org/issues/12/12-790.html#1 John M Clifton, Summer Institute of Linguistics and University of North Dakota DESCRIPTION OF THE BOOK The two major issues addressed in this book can be characterized in terms of two senses of the word 'significance' as used in the title of the book. The first issue is how significant word lists are to determining language relatedness. The second issue is what is involved in showing that hypotheses made on the basis word lists are statistically significant. In chapter 1, 'Introduction', Kessler (K) addresses the two major positions on the first issue. On the one side are those like Greenberg and Ruhlen (1992) who feel that the analysis of word lists can be used to demonstrate the links between remotely related languages. On the other side are scores of more traditional historical linguists who claim that the similarities used to establish these putative links are due to chance. K proposes a third option: word lists can be used to establish linguistic relationships, but only when following a rigid methodology designed to ensure the results will be statistically significant. Chapters 2, 'Statistical Methodology', and 3, 'Significance Testing', are the heart of the book. In these chapters K discusses statistical methodology in general, and then details the specific methodology proposed for the analysis of word lists. K then applies this test to Swadesh 100 word lists from eight languages: Latin, French, English, German, Albanian, Hawaiian, Navajo, and Turkish. With a few exceptions, the results of the procedure indicate that the first five are related, and the others are not. At the risk of over-simplifying a complex procedure, I will attempt to summarize the contents of the methodology. Feel free to skip the next paragraph if it is too obtuse. The methodology involves constructing a table of correspondences of word-initial segments in semantically related words in two languages. This table can then be analyzed using the chi-square test for significance. From a statistical point of view, the problem is that the number of occurrences of specific correspondences is too low for the chi-square test to be meaningful. To remedy this, K proposes the use of a Monte Carlo technique. Applying this technique, one of the word lists is randomized, a new table is constructed, and the chi-square test is applied to the new table. This procedure is repeated 10,000 times. Now the value of the original table is compared with the values of these 10,000 tables generated by the Monte Carlo technique, and a valid level of significance can be attached to the original value. As indicated above, the methodology as proposed does not always correctly identify which languages are related. There are both false positives in which a relationship is posited between apparently unrelated languages like Latin and Navajo, and false negatives in which no relationship is posited between related languages like Albanian and German. K points out that false positives are unavoidable in statistics; the goal is to minimize them. False negatives, on the other hand, should be eliminated. In addition, it would be nice if the methodology could distinguish between closer relationships like those between English and German, and more distant relationships like those between English and Albanian. In chapters 4-10, K discusses various ways in which the methodology might be improved. In chapter 4, 'Tests in Different Environments', K concludes that predictions are not improved by comparing features other than the word-initial consonant, for example, the first consonant of the second syllable, or the first vowel, or some combination of the above. Then in chapter 5, 'Size of the Word Lists', K shows that increasing the size of the word lists by using the Swadesh 200 word list instead of the Swadesh 100, does not improve the predictions. Chapter 6, 'Precision and Lumping', deals with the implications of two types of historical changes. First, phonemes can split or merge so that, for example, /t/ in language A may correspond to /t/, /tj/, and /tw/ in language B. Second, semantic shifts occur which result in, for example, the lexical item for 'skin' in language A being related to the lexical item for 'bark' in language B. K rejects attempts to incorporate such factors into the procedures on the basis of practical considerations related to the methodological requirement that lexical items be chosen without reference to their similarity to forms in other languages. Chapters 7-9 deal with what lexical items may need to be eliminated from the analysis. In chapter 7, 'Nonarbitrary Vocabulary', K discusses forms in which the phonetic form may be at least partially determined by sound symbolism including, but not limited to, onomatopoeia and nursery words. Then K discusses loan words in chapter 8, 'Historical Connection vs. Relatedness', and language-internally related forms in chapter 9, 'Language-Internal Cognates'. Language-internally related forms include such phenomena one phonetic form for related meanings (for example, 'skin' and 'bark' or 'egg' and 'seed') and derivationally related forms. K argues that if the goal of the analysis is determining whether two languages are genetically related, the nonarbitrary aspects of such forms needs to be eliminated. Then, in chapter 10, 'Recurrence Metrics', K introduces some statistical methods that might be used in place of the chi-square test. In the final chapter, 'Conclusions', K summarizes the actual procedures proposed in the book, and then offers observations on what such procedures have to offer the practice of historical linguistics. The book concludes with an appendix that includes all eight word lists that are used to test the methodology presented in the book, references, and an index. CRITICAL EVALUATION It should be obvious by now that this book may be hard going for readers who have an aversion to mathematics in general or statistics in particular. At the same time, I feel K does a good job of presenting the material in a form that should be accessible to readers who do not have a strong background in statistics. The book is full of examples illustrating the various points. And the fact that the same eight word lists are used throughout the book makes it easier to follow the arguments related to variations in the procedures. I feel K has demonstrated that it is possible to develop procedures that yield statistically significant results (that is, issue two from above). At the same time, I do not feel K demonstrates how the procedures will bring together the two sides regarding the issue of how significant a role word lists should play in determining language relatedness. The problem is that most of the discussion regarding this issue deals with languages whose relationship is very remote, while the methodology presented here only seems to be applicable to languages related at the level of Indo-European. K never shows how the methodology could be adapted to test more remote relationships. In addition, I am not sure that K's requirement that the analysis must be based on a pre-determined procedure, on word lists that are chosen without reference to any of the other languages to be analyzed, will be acceptable to those interested in determining remote relationships. This is not so say, however, that the methodology is without merit. In some areas like Papua New Guinea and Africa, relationships have not been firmly established even at the level of Indo-European. In addition, the chapters on lexical items that should be eliminated from the analysis (7-9) discuss issues that are important for anyone involved in the analysis of word lists. I have seen many analyses (my own included) that fail to take into consideration internal cognates. A major thrust of the book is that 'more is not necessarily better'. K demonstrates the importance of choosing carefully the words to be analyzed. It is better to analyze a smaller set of words that have been screened in terms of origin than to analyze a large number of words that are of questionable status. In other words, K argues that attempts to bolster an analysis based on word lists of questionable status by simply adding more words actually works against the trustworthiness of the analysis. At the same time, this will make the procedure more difficult to apply in situations as in Papua New Guinea where it is difficult to gather the information necessary to compile trustworthy word lists. Technical dictionaries of the caliber used by K simply do not exist in many of the languages there. K also makes it clear that the procedures proposed in this book are not a replacement for the more traditional tasks of establishing cognates. Instead, the procedures are meant to show which languages are good candidates for such a task. In conclusion, while I am not sure how influential the book will be in the debate over the use of word lists for determining remote relationships, I feel the book has a lot to offer to those involved in more mundane analysis of word lists. BIBLIOGRAPHY Greenberg, Joseph H. and Merritt Ruhlen. 1992. Linguistic origins of Native Americans. Scientific American 267:94-99. ABOUT THE REVIEWER John M Clifton has been involved in sociolinguistic research involving, among other aspects, language relationships, in Papua New Guinea from 1982 to 1994. More recently, he has just finished coordinating the work of a team of researchers working in language use and attitudes among speakers of less-commonly-spoken languages in Azerbaijan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kessler-book.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 191611 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Wed Dec 11 03:12:10 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:12:10 -0500 Subject: [language] pseudo philosophy of science Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> I found this in Science, p. 967, 1 Nov 2002. It is about the perennial issue of what is science, how is it done, and related issues of philosophy of science, such as confirmationism, verificationism, falsificationism etc. The difference is that it is written without the philosophical jargon. --------------------------------------------------------------- ...Archimedes made the following astonishingly subtle deduction:... (the famous Eurako episode).. Austere and technical as they are, Archimedes' treatises are just as striking as the anecdotes about him. In the treatises three motives run together: proof, amazement, and the juxtaposition of the unexpected. Proof and amazement are related because Archimedes amazes by proving that something that is very surprising is in fact is true. Amazement and juxtaposition of the unexpected are related, because the amazing result is usually seen in the equality or equivalence of two seemingly separate domains. ---------------------------------------- But now we can clearly see what is practiced by scientists now as a matter of course. Since the easy parts have already been done (e.g. physics, engineering, etc) the massive amounts of available data in the social sciences requires high-powered statistical analysis programs. However everything here is applied directly. Indeed, one can see the "surprise" factor in physics e.g. a strange theory based on waves all of a sudden predicts something amazing, etc. It saddens me that there are physicists who still have not understood the basis of science. I would assume that their probability theory is either weak or nonexistent or their comprehension of logic (as used by philosophers) is disconnected from anything in the real world. It seems like this list was silent for a very long time and it seems like a good time to wake it up by discussing Popper or anything else that comes to mind. -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Wed Dec 11 04:35:10 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 23:35:10 -0500 Subject: [language] [Fwd: Re: Sensationalism in Science and Philosophy] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Sensationalism in Science and Philosophy Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 12:18:57 +0000 From: linguist at linguistlist.org To: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu I'm sorry, but we must return your posting on this topic, because the moderators have closed this thread to further discussion at this time, and notice of this decision has been announced to the list. We sincerely regret having to return your message. Perhaps you can continue the discussion privately. Regards, LINGUIST From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Mon May 20 01:25:56 2002 Delivered-To: linguist at linguistlist.org Date: Mon, 20 May 2002 00:57:48 -0400 From: "H.M. Hubey" Subject: Sensationalism in Science and Philosophy To: The LINGUIST Network , ploch at languages.wits.ac.za, dan_everett at sil.org MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD BA45DSL (Win95; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-9 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Accept-Language: en,pdf I would like to thank Dr. Ploch for his long post clearing the air and clarifying the confused state of matters. I would also like to add a few comments which are germane. First of all, these discussions are extremely important for linguistics. Around the 1930s people like Paul Samuelson were known as "mathematical economists". Today "economist" means "mathematical economist". And the term "literary economist" is reserved for those who would like to litter the landscape with tossed word salads. To me a person is a "literary economist" like Jules Verne is a "literary physicist". Obviously, Verne was a science fiction writer. One day there will also be "literary linguists". The times are changing, and they always did. Around 1950 "computer" was a human, like an engineer, or accountant. Hence the words for machines had the adjective "automatic" in front of it e.g. EDVAC, UNIVAC etc, because at that time sophisticated-machines were called "automatic". One day, the adjective "mathematical" will not be necessary when using the word "linguist". Over the last 300 years or so strange things have happened and strange ideas have become sold as 'truth'. I was shocked to find one of my students put on her web page that she 'practices wiccan'. All this is due to lack of knowledge about what science is. And it is not really very recent, but has been going on for centuries. The great [anti] hero of movies and films moved into the science field and usurped it. The earliest such event was the ridicule heaped upon Isaac Newton and his "mathematics" by the philosopher Berkeley (and his cronies who called Newton to their "court" and [allegedly] demolished his whole edifice) who today is not known for much more than what can best be explained as "what I don't see does not exist." The story of science has been told incorrectly by those who had a lot to lose from its successes. Let us not forget that Newton did "natural philosophy" (not "physics"). The best explanation of why science developed the way it did and why it had to essentially this deterministic path is in August Comte's book. (Unfortunately, I could only read the English translation by Andreski, not the original French.) But he too was put away by those who had much to lose, and who did not understand what was written. Then during this century we had Feyerabend who "proves" that witchcraft is science. When he gave this talk at Stanford a student asked him why he does not fly brooms instead of airplanes, and his answer was "I understand planes but not brooms."! How can this con-artist even show is face anywhere? Then finally, the dam burst when that ignoramus Searle decided to do one better and wrote his little work on why there will never be intelligent machines. There was a companion article in the Scientific American by the philosopher couple Mr/Ms Churchland. It is only too painfully clear that Searle does not even understand what was written, and has no ability to even think of complex issues in that article of his in Scientific American. But this is all what post-everything movement is about. There was a great deal of ridicule of Searle, which like a true con-man he merely termed "hostility". But it looks like the tide has turned. The big attack was launched by two physicists, Sokol and Bricmont, and it was the hoax article which they got published in a prestigious journal. In fact, one can find the website where there is a "postmodernism generator". It creates a new postmodernist article automatically everytime you click on the button. That is how much gibberish there is in that movement which, to me, includes people like Feyerabend, Searle, and Kuhn. Nothing succeeds like success, and it looks like things are going back to sanity. All of this is not much more than earlier replays of what Bill Gates did to the world (mostly America). A much more reliable operating system Linux is available for free. Just think a minute. If there were free cars outperforming Lexus, Benz, Infiniti and BMW, how long would these manufacturers stay in business? The WebServer Apache was so good that there is even a version of it that runs on Gates' Windows operating systems and yet he still sells his IIS. Why? Most people say that they use Windows only because they have to use MS-Office and that because their old files are in these packages. But there is Star-Office, which is probably still free and it produces basically MS-Office compatable files. So why does Bill Gates still hold the world by its testicles? That is the same reason why Feyerabend, Kuhn, Searle are still enjoying a kind of [anti] hero fame. Who are they fighting and why are they so popular? Obviously, I recommend reading Popper, Comte, and others who wrote on science like Mach, Frank, Paulos, Schroedinger, etc. Their works are less "heroic" than those of Feyerabend, Searle and Kuhn but they are much closer to the mark on how science is and was really done. And that is why linguists should broaden their readings to others than those who are greatly popular in the "mainstream". Look at Gates' Windows and Office? Free products are better than those. That speaks volumes about the mass marketing of products and ideas. -- M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:03:27 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:03:27 -0800 Subject: [language] Sound Changes Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> I clipped the following from this website. I want to make some off-the-cuff comments (later). http://members.tripod.com/~hettiarachchi/sinhala.html For example, in Sanskrit, the sound r takes more prominence, appearing in many words. This is not so in Prakrit (Pali) which has a tendency to eliminate this sound. In turn Pali words possessed a high proportion of double consonants, a feature that was eliminated in Sinhala. This had taken place by the 3rd century B.C. as borne out by the earliest cave inscriptions. Sanskrit Pali Sinhala karman kamma kam (work) marga magga maga (path ) Other sound changes include the change of ch to s, which took place during the 8th century A.C. and became regular by the 10th century. Pali Sinhala gachach gasa (tree) kuchchi kusa (womb) The change of p to v which occured between the 1st-2nd centuries A.C. Pali Sinhala rupa ruva (form) papa pau (sin) The change of j to d, which first took place in the 4th century A.C. and became regular by the 9th century. Pali Sinhala vejja vedha (physician) ajja adha (today) and the change of t to l, which as the renowned German philologist, Wilhelm Geiger has noted, took place through an intermediate d. This occured sometime between the 6th-10th centuries A.C. Pali Sinhala putavi polova (earth) mata mala (dead) There also exist a number of other sound changes that characterize Sinhala and distinguish it from its North Indian sister languages. The change of Sanskrit s to h and the latter?s eventual disappearance is unique to Sinhala amongst Aryan languages, although such changes have occured in other Indo-European languages such as Greek and Armenian. We know from ancient Sinhalese inscriptions that the Sanskrit surya (sun) had become hir by the 9th century and hira by the end of the 12th century. This in turn became the present day ira by the 15th century. Owing to its geographical isolation, Sinhala has also preserved a number of old Aryan archaisms not found in any of the North Indian vernaculars. For example, whereas Sinhala, like Pali, has preserved the initial y of old Indo-Aryan, this has been changed to j in all the modern North Indian languages derived from Sanskrit. Sanskrit yati (go), Hindi jana, Bengali jay, Sinhala yanna. Some Sinhala words have however died out and been replaced by Pali or Sanskrit. For example, the old sinhala la (heart) occuring the Sigiri graffiti (8th-10 centuries) as la-kol hellambuyun (heart shattering fair damsels) is today extinct and has been replaced by the Pali hada. Similarly, the old Sinhala ag (fire) has been replaced by the Pali gini. The old Sinhala term for horse, as today exists only in compound terms such as as-val (horse-hair), as-hala (stable) and as-govva (horse-keeper) and has been superseded by the Sanskrit ashva. Such old Sinhala words like dana (people), rada (king), and pungul (person) have to all, intents and purposes ceased to exist, and have been superseded by their respective Sanskrit equivalents, jana, raja and pudgala. But by no means is pure Sinhala or Elu(as it is known in literary circles) confined to Sri Lanka. The speech of the Maldivian islanders, Divehi bas, is in fact a dialect of Sinhala, which branched off from the parent language sometime between the 4th-8th centuries. ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:10:58 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:10:58 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes1 Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > I clipped the following from this website. I want to make some > off-the-cuff comments (later). > > http://members.tripod.com/~hettiarachchi/sinhala.html > > For example, in Sanskrit, the sound r takes more prominence, appearing > in many words. This is not so in Prakrit (Pali) which has a tendency > to eliminate this sound. In turn Pali words possessed a high > proportion of double consonants, a feature that was eliminated in > Sinhala. This had taken place by the 3rd century B.C. as borne out by > the earliest cave inscriptions. > > Sanskrit Pali Sinhala > karman kamma kam (work) > marga magga maga (path ) > The mar- root has to be related to Hittite pai, Turkic bar, Latin ped, and Persian pai (foot). I can't believe that d>y or y>d. The sound must have been *dh, as seen in Turkic (attested). Any comments. Furthermore, like the PIE p > Germanic f which was caused by nonIE speakers causing the change (Comrie), I believe dh>d was caused by nonIE learners. Comments appreciated. > ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:12:13 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:12:13 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes2 ts> s or ch > s Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Other sound changes include the change of ch to s, which took place > during the 8th century A.C. and became regular by the 10th century. > > Pali Sinhala > gachach gasa (tree) > kuchchi kusa (womb) > I find this extremely hard to believe. What if it was ts and not ch? Then the t could have disappeared leaving s. Any comments? ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:14:27 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:14:27 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes3 p>v and p>u and a>0 Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > The change of p to v which occured between the 1st-2nd centuries A.C. > > Pali Sinhala > rupa ruva (form) > papa pau (sin) > THis is irregular. So how regular is regularity supposed to be? When I posted Tuna's Turko-Sumerian list, there were lots of complaints. And that after 4,000-5,000 years. Now in a few hundred years, instead of papa>pava, we have pau. Would this pass muster normally? > ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:16:44 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:16:44 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes4 jj>dh or j>d Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > The change of j to d, which first took place in the 4th century A.C. > and became regular by > the 9th century. > > Pali Sinhala > vejja vedha (physician) > ajja adha (today) > IT seems like jj changed to dh, not j>d. Is that corred? Is the dh supposed to be aspirated, or voiced-fricative? HOw do we know Pali was not vedja and adja? ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:20:56 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:20:56 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes 5 t>l nor not Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > > and the change of t to l, which as the renowned German philologist, > Wilhelm Geiger has noted, took place through an intermediate d. This > occured sometime between the 6th-10th centuries A.C. > > Pali Sinhala > putavi polova (earth) > mata mala (dead) > I do not believe that either. I think it was th > l, like in Hittite tabarna/labarna and in many others. Or the th was not really that but more like the Circassian sounds e.g. the iron-worker in their Nart Sagas has the name Tlepsh. The word for iron is temir, tibira, etc and connected with heat e.g., temperature, tepid, tab, etc. So Circassian has the first syllable e.g. tlep. I cannot justify this except on the basis of nothing more than "symmetry". See for example Van Fraazen "Symmetry and Science" or something like it. Or Lord James Clerk Maxwell's fixing up the known laws of electromagnetism on the basis of symmetry. Comments? ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:26:15 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:26:15 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes 6 h >s or not? Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > There also exist a number of other sound changes that characterize > Sinhala and distinguish it from its North Indian sister languages. The > change of Sanskrit s to h and the latter?s eventual disappearance is > unique to Sinhala amongst Aryan languages, although such changes > I guess by now it should be clear :-) I do not believe this happened either. I have been asking for an attestation of k>s for a long time. IT seems to me what happened is 1) th > t >s or t > s 2) t > k > h Any comments? > have occured in other Indo-European languages such as Greek and > Armenian. We know from ancient Sinhalese inscriptions that the > Sanskrit surya (sun) had become hir by the 9th century and hira by the > end of the 12th century. > THis can't be right. There is some kind of an error in transmission. It cannot lose the -ya and then gain it back as -a. It sounds too unbelievable. Something else happened. Maybe different dialects got into writing at different times by taking over, or else some other shift occurred. There should be some general principles of linguistics that inhibits this kind of stuff from being passed off as "fact" when so many other possibilities exist. Comments? > This in turn became the present day ira by the 15th century. > This makes sense. It is easy enough to believe h>0 but if it comes back again, whoaaa. ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:36:14 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:36:14 -0800 Subject: [language] Re: Sound Changes 7 y ? j/c Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> H.M. Hubey wrote: > <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language > List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > Owing to its geographical isolation, Sinhala has also preserved a > number of old Aryan archaisms not found in any of the North Indian > vernaculars. For example, whereas Sinhala, like Pali, has preserved > the initial y of old Indo-Aryan, this has been changed to j in all the > modern North Indian languages derived from Sanskrit. In Turkic this is a problem. According to Doerfer, the initial y and c/j in Turkic come from a *d. It might have been some other (but related sound). But it seems like, here is a case where we can look for rules. It is a serious problem when anything changes to anything. If there are rules and there is regularity then it has to be more uniform. In any case, if this field is to become scientific we have to look for them. Any candidate sounds instead of *d, or *dh, or the just-as-unpalatable y>c. > Sanskrit yati (go), Hindi jana, Bengali jay, Sinhala yanna. > Could it have been a palatalized g, e.g like Magyar gy which shows up in Turkic as y, or c. e.g. Gyula=dulo, and later yula, and Magyar > Macar. Is that possible? > Some Sinhala words have however died out and been replaced by Pali or > Sanskrit. For example, the old sinhala la (heart) occuring the Sigiri > graffiti (8th-10 centuries) as la-kol hellambuyun (heart shattering > fair damsels) is today extinct and has been replaced by the Pali hada. > Here we see it again, d=l, and/or apparently h=l. It seems fricative-for-fricative is much better than anything for anything. If such a thing occurs the receiving language should be substituting a sound it has for one it does not have. Again it seems like th>dh>d and th>l. This also seems pretty irregular. > Similarly, the old Sinhala ag (fire) has been replaced by the Pali > gini. The old Sinhala term for horse, as today exists only in compound > Ditto here. It seems like they both derive from agni, e.g. agni > ag, and agni> gini. > terms such as as-val (horse-hair), as-hala (stable) and as-govva > (horse-keeper) and has been superseded by the Sanskrit ashva. > > Such old Sinhala words like dana (people), rada (king), and pungul > (person) have to all, intents and purposes ceased to exist, and have > been superseded by their respective Sanskrit equivalents, jana, raja > and pudgala. > Here too, I see what I see in Turkic and Hittite dh> ng>n, and sometimes n=m. Like-for-like. Is there no such principle? ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 3 22:53:28 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:53:28 -0800 Subject: [language] courtesy Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> If you post to this mailing list please follow common courtesy and delete all extra garbage. ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Wed Dec 4 04:04:47 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 23:04:47 -0500 Subject: [language] [Fwd: [evol-psych] Infants go to school early on grammar] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> December 2, 2002 Infants go to school early on grammar WEST LAFAYETTE, Ind. - A Purdue University psychology professor says that infants appear to understand much more than they are given credit for. "Infants appear to learn words and grammar simultaneously," says George Hollich, director of the Infant Language Lab and assistant professor of psychological sciences. "This underscores the importance of talking to them, early and often." Hollich is studying how infants learn language in the Infant Language Lab, a component of the Purdue Baby Lab in the School of Liberal Arts. The Baby Lab is co-directed by Hollich and Barbara Younger-Rossmann, who also is director of the Infant Cognition Lab. Babies, ages 5 months to 2 years, participate in both labs. "If you consider the almost infinite number of words, as well as the potential mappings between words and meanings, learning a language ought to be impossible," says Hollich, whose research is funded by Purdue. "Our studies are determining how infants discover words in the fluent stream of speech, how they learn the meaning of those words and how they come to understand grammar." It had been believed that children learn language step-by-step from one word to the next, but Hollich's research indicates that infants may be learning words and grammar simultaneously. For example, in one study Hollich is attempting to find out if infants understand just words, or if they can understand the whole sentence. "Do they understand, 'Where is the flower?' versus 'What hit the flower?' or are they hearing 'Blah, blah, blah flower?'" Hollich says. To address this issue a baby is shown a series of short animated sequences, such as an apple repetitively colliding with a flower. Then another screen will show the apple in one corner and the flower in the other. A voice asks "What hit the flower? " Because these babies don't talk, their answers are recorded by how long they gaze at each item. If the baby looks longer at the apple it shows the child understands the question. If the baby looks at the flower, it shows they identify the word "flower," but don't comprehend the question. By 15 months, children do look directly at the correct image. "This finding is surprising considering that most experts would predict that infants should look at the object specifically mentioned in the question, and infants will do this, but only if the question is 'Where is the flower?' Hollich says. "Thus, from the earliest ages tested, infants are demonstrating a surprising amount of linguistic savvy. This shows kids understand more than just a few words, and that babies understand grammar much earlier than previously thought." Hollich's other research focuses on the ways children learn to recognize their native language. Hollich is collaborating with a researcher from the University of Postdam in Berlin. The question in this study is whether the melody of speech, regardless of the specific words, is noticed by infants who hear only English. Each infant hears two types of German passages, one set of passages has a melody (or prosody) similar to English, even though the words aren't. Other passages had a very different and more typically German prosody. "The results still need to be evaluated, but we think that English babies will like the passages with English prosody, while we know the German babies like the passages that are more typically German sounding," Hollich says. "In this way, we will see if infants can use the melody of speech in early language learning, which might help explain why all cultures tend to talk in a very funny way to their children - an exaggerated sing-song melody that researchers have coined infant-directed speech." Another study involves streaming, in which children find words in speech. These experiments indicate that infants can use what they see to help them follow a person speaking in what can often be a noisy and distracting environment. "Kids can use what they see to hear better," Hollich says. "When you talk to the child, let them see your face, because my research suggests that seeing the person's face is very important to help infants hear, especially when it is noisy. In general, visual information is more important than a lot of researchers would have thought." About 20 to 40 children participate weekly at the language lab, and each study requires 32 to 50 babies. Babies who participate receive a gift and a certificate. For more information about participating in the Infant Language Lab, call (765) 494-6928. The studies take less than 30 minutes. Writer: Amy Patterson-Neubert, (765) 494-9723, apatterson at purdue.edu Source: George Hollich, (765) 494-2224, ghollich at purdue.edu Purdue News Service: (765) 494-2096; purduenews at purdue.edu Related Web site: Purdue Baby Labs http://www.psych.purdue.edu/~babylab/ http://news.uns.purdue.edu/html4ever/021202.Hollich.babytalk.html -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Fri Dec 6 17:53:16 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 09:53:16 -0800 Subject: [language] Earliest New World writing revealed] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Earliest New World writing revealed 19:00 05 December 02 NewScientist.com news service The discovery of a fist-sized ceramic cylinder and fragments of engraved plaques has pushed back the earliest evidence of writing in the Americas by at least 350 years to 650 BC. Rolling the cylinder printed symbols indicating allegiance to a king - a striking difference from the Old World, where the oldest known writing was used for keeping records by the first accountants. Full text http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99993151 ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Sun Dec 15 03:09:42 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:09:42 -0500 Subject: [language] list Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> There are rumors spreading that this list is moderated. It is not. It is not censored or moderated. But the server is often down. If anyone has tried to post and has not succeeded I would like to know. Because of the problems we have with the server I am thinking of moving it to something like yahoogroups.com. Any comments? Please post to the mailing list. -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Sun Dec 15 03:10:58 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 22:10:58 -0500 Subject: [language] Kessler Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> I just picked up a copy of Brett Kessler's book. It seems like an interesting book. Has anyone read it? -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Mon Dec 16 15:20:28 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 10:20:28 -0500 Subject: [language] [Fwd: [evol-psych] Journey" Redraws Humans' Family Tree] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Journey" Redraws Humans' Family Tree Hillary Mayell for National Geographic News December 13, 2002 By analyzing DNA from people in all regions of the world, geneticist Spencer Wells has concluded that all humans alive today are descended from a single man who lived in Africa around 60,000 years ago. Modern humans, he contends, didn't start their spread across the globe until after that time. Most archaeologists would say the exodus began 100,000 years ago-a 40,000-year discrepancy. Wells's take on the origins of modern humans and how they came to populate the rest of the planet is bound to be controversial. His work adds to an already crowded field of opposing hypotheses proposed by those who seek answers in "stones and bones"-archaeologists and paleoanthropologists-and those who seek them in our blood-population geneticists and molecular biologists. In Journey of Man, Spencer Wells traces human evolution from Africa through Asia to the Navajo people of North America. Photograph copyright Mark Read, National Geographic Channels International Journey of Man premieres internationally Sunday, December 15, on the National Geographic Channel. It airs on January 21, 2003, in the United States on PBS. Consult your local TV listings. The book, The Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey, was published in the United Kingdom in October 2002. It will be released in the United States by Princeton University Press in January 2003. Over the last decade, major debate on whether early humans evolved in Africa or elsewhere, when they began outward migration, where they went, and whether they interbred with or replaced archaic species has moved out of scientific journals and into the public consciousness. Full text http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/12/1212_021213_journeyofman.html News in Brain and Behavioural Sciences - Issue 81 - 14th December, 2002 http://human-nature.com/nibbs/issue81.html -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 17 02:18:56 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M. Hubey) Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:18:56 -0500 Subject: [language] [ a little game] Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Here is a little game. Here are some words that mean "good" in various Turkic languages from various places and times. 1. edgU where U=u" Karaxanid (Erdal in book by Johanson and Csato) 2. iyi Turkish (This could also be eyi) 3. igi Karachay-Balkar (Kipchak branch, North Caucasus) 4. yaxshi many Turkic languages 5. ashxI where I=dotless Turkish i, (karachay-balkar) This is a good example of what I have against IEanists. They just keep creating new roots as they need them. All they need is an asterisk. 1. Are there two roots here or one? 2. What was the original form? 3. How did you derive it? -- M. Hubey -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o The only difference between humans and machines is that humans can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke /\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu From hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu Tue Dec 31 17:49:07 2002 From: hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu (H.M.Hubey) Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:49:07 -0500 Subject: [language] kessler review Message-ID: <><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -------------- next part -------------- LINGUIST List 13.491 Fri Feb 22 2002 Review: Kessler, The Significance of Word Lists Editor for this issue: Terence Langendoen > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ What follows is another discussion note contributed to our Book Discussion Forum. We expect these discussions to be informal and interactive; and the author of the book discussed is cordially invited to join in. If you are interested in leading a book discussion, look for books announced on LINGUIST as "available for discussion." (This means that the publisher has sent us a review copy.) Then contact Simin Karimi at simin at linguistlist.org or Terry Langendoen at terry at linguistlist.org . Subscribe to Blackwell's LL+ at http://www.linguistlistplus.com/ and donate 20% of your subscription to LINGUIST! You get 30% off on Blackwells books, and free shipping and postage! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Directory 1. John & Debbie Clifton, Review of Kessler: The Significance of Word Lists ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Message 1: Review of Kessler: The Significance of Word Lists Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:59:53 +0400 From: John & Debbie Clifton > Subject: Review of Kessler: The Significance of Word Lists Kessler, Brett. 2001. The Significance of Word Lists. CSLI Publications, x+277pp, hardback ISBN 1-57586-299-9, paperback ISBN 1-57586-300-6, Dissertations in Linguistics. Announced at http://linguistlist.org/issues/12/12-790.html#1 John M Clifton, Summer Institute of Linguistics and University of North Dakota DESCRIPTION OF THE BOOK The two major issues addressed in this book can be characterized in terms of two senses of the word 'significance' as used in the title of the book. The first issue is how significant word lists are to determining language relatedness. The second issue is what is involved in showing that hypotheses made on the basis word lists are statistically significant. In chapter 1, 'Introduction', Kessler (K) addresses the two major positions on the first issue. On the one side are those like Greenberg and Ruhlen (1992) who feel that the analysis of word lists can be used to demonstrate the links between remotely related languages. On the other side are scores of more traditional historical linguists who claim that the similarities used to establish these putative links are due to chance. K proposes a third option: word lists can be used to establish linguistic relationships, but only when following a rigid methodology designed to ensure the results will be statistically significant. Chapters 2, 'Statistical Methodology', and 3, 'Significance Testing', are the heart of the book. In these chapters K discusses statistical methodology in general, and then details the specific methodology proposed for the analysis of word lists. K then applies this test to Swadesh 100 word lists from eight languages: Latin, French, English, German, Albanian, Hawaiian, Navajo, and Turkish. With a few exceptions, the results of the procedure indicate that the first five are related, and the others are not. At the risk of over-simplifying a complex procedure, I will attempt to summarize the contents of the methodology. Feel free to skip the next paragraph if it is too obtuse. The methodology involves constructing a table of correspondences of word-initial segments in semantically related words in two languages. This table can then be analyzed using the chi-square test for significance. From a statistical point of view, the problem is that the number of occurrences of specific correspondences is too low for the chi-square test to be meaningful. To remedy this, K proposes the use of a Monte Carlo technique. Applying this technique, one of the word lists is randomized, a new table is constructed, and the chi-square test is applied to the new table. This procedure is repeated 10,000 times. Now the value of the original table is compared with the values of these 10,000 tables generated by the Monte Carlo technique, and a valid level of significance can be attached to the original value. As indicated above, the methodology as proposed does not always correctly identify which languages are related. There are both false positives in which a relationship is posited between apparently unrelated languages like Latin and Navajo, and false negatives in which no relationship is posited between related languages like Albanian and German. K points out that false positives are unavoidable in statistics; the goal is to minimize them. False negatives, on the other hand, should be eliminated. In addition, it would be nice if the methodology could distinguish between closer relationships like those between English and German, and more distant relationships like those between English and Albanian. In chapters 4-10, K discusses various ways in which the methodology might be improved. In chapter 4, 'Tests in Different Environments', K concludes that predictions are not improved by comparing features other than the word-initial consonant, for example, the first consonant of the second syllable, or the first vowel, or some combination of the above. Then in chapter 5, 'Size of the Word Lists', K shows that increasing the size of the word lists by using the Swadesh 200 word list instead of the Swadesh 100, does not improve the predictions. Chapter 6, 'Precision and Lumping', deals with the implications of two types of historical changes. First, phonemes can split or merge so that, for example, /t/ in language A may correspond to /t/, /tj/, and /tw/ in language B. Second, semantic shifts occur which result in, for example, the lexical item for 'skin' in language A being related to the lexical item for 'bark' in language B. K rejects attempts to incorporate such factors into the procedures on the basis of practical considerations related to the methodological requirement that lexical items be chosen without reference to their similarity to forms in other languages. Chapters 7-9 deal with what lexical items may need to be eliminated from the analysis. In chapter 7, 'Nonarbitrary Vocabulary', K discusses forms in which the phonetic form may be at least partially determined by sound symbolism including, but not limited to, onomatopoeia and nursery words. Then K discusses loan words in chapter 8, 'Historical Connection vs. Relatedness', and language-internally related forms in chapter 9, 'Language-Internal Cognates'. Language-internally related forms include such phenomena one phonetic form for related meanings (for example, 'skin' and 'bark' or 'egg' and 'seed') and derivationally related forms. K argues that if the goal of the analysis is determining whether two languages are genetically related, the nonarbitrary aspects of such forms needs to be eliminated. Then, in chapter 10, 'Recurrence Metrics', K introduces some statistical methods that might be used in place of the chi-square test. In the final chapter, 'Conclusions', K summarizes the actual procedures proposed in the book, and then offers observations on what such procedures have to offer the practice of historical linguistics. The book concludes with an appendix that includes all eight word lists that are used to test the methodology presented in the book, references, and an index. CRITICAL EVALUATION It should be obvious by now that this book may be hard going for readers who have an aversion to mathematics in general or statistics in particular. At the same time, I feel K does a good job of presenting the material in a form that should be accessible to readers who do not have a strong background in statistics. The book is full of examples illustrating the various points. And the fact that the same eight word lists are used throughout the book makes it easier to follow the arguments related to variations in the procedures. I feel K has demonstrated that it is possible to develop procedures that yield statistically significant results (that is, issue two from above). At the same time, I do not feel K demonstrates how the procedures will bring together the two sides regarding the issue of how significant a role word lists should play in determining language relatedness. The problem is that most of the discussion regarding this issue deals with languages whose relationship is very remote, while the methodology presented here only seems to be applicable to languages related at the level of Indo-European. K never shows how the methodology could be adapted to test more remote relationships. In addition, I am not sure that K's requirement that the analysis must be based on a pre-determined procedure, on word lists that are chosen without reference to any of the other languages to be analyzed, will be acceptable to those interested in determining remote relationships. This is not so say, however, that the methodology is without merit. In some areas like Papua New Guinea and Africa, relationships have not been firmly established even at the level of Indo-European. In addition, the chapters on lexical items that should be eliminated from the analysis (7-9) discuss issues that are important for anyone involved in the analysis of word lists. I have seen many analyses (my own included) that fail to take into consideration internal cognates. A major thrust of the book is that 'more is not necessarily better'. K demonstrates the importance of choosing carefully the words to be analyzed. It is better to analyze a smaller set of words that have been screened in terms of origin than to analyze a large number of words that are of questionable status. In other words, K argues that attempts to bolster an analysis based on word lists of questionable status by simply adding more words actually works against the trustworthiness of the analysis. At the same time, this will make the procedure more difficult to apply in situations as in Papua New Guinea where it is difficult to gather the information necessary to compile trustworthy word lists. Technical dictionaries of the caliber used by K simply do not exist in many of the languages there. K also makes it clear that the procedures proposed in this book are not a replacement for the more traditional tasks of establishing cognates. Instead, the procedures are meant to show which languages are good candidates for such a task. In conclusion, while I am not sure how influential the book will be in the debate over the use of word lists for determining remote relationships, I feel the book has a lot to offer to those involved in more mundane analysis of word lists. BIBLIOGRAPHY Greenberg, Joseph H. and Merritt Ruhlen. 1992. Linguistic origins of Native Americans. Scientific American 267:94-99. ABOUT THE REVIEWER John M Clifton has been involved in sociolinguistic research involving, among other aspects, language relationships, in Papua New Guinea from 1982 to 1994. More recently, he has just finished coordinating the work of a team of researchers working in language use and attitudes among speakers of less-commonly-spoken languages in Azerbaijan. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: kessler-book.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 191611 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- ---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><> Copyrights/"Fair Use": http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express your own works -- only the ability to express other people's. Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are important considerations. You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu