[language] Chuvash initial-l, and Common Turkic initial-t

H.M. Hubey hubeyh at mail.montclair.edu
Sun Jan 19 05:27:02 UTC 2003


<><><><><><><><><><><><>--This is the Language List--<><><><><><><><><><><><><>



I have a set of cognates from the two Turkic families. I got the Chuvash
words from Paasonen,
but I could only get the Turkish translation, so I had to translate them
back into English. I am sure
they are cognates. But the only time I have seen t=l is in Hittite
tabarna=labarna. More strange
parallels follow. I have looked at Watkins and Buck, and Bomhard's
Nostratic books. I am still
not sure about certain things.

Here they are:

1.) Chuvash lapatka bileyi tahtas?; kenarlar?na katran sürülmüs,, sapl?
bir tahtad?r ki üzerindeki t?rpanlar bilenir; çamas,?r tokmag(?
[rusças?:???????] [Paasonen08:82]; This is a board for sharpening
scythes. It is also used for beating (washing)
clothes.

Turkic tapla (to sharpen); found at least in Karachay-Balkar

2) Chuvash lapa(rdat suda çalkalanmak[Paasonen08:82];
To be rinsed in water (that is what is says)

Turkic shIpIrdat to make gurgling noises

3.a) Chuvash lapa(rkka çamur (yollarda); kir, pislik, deg(ersiz, is,e
yaramaz[Paasonen08:82];
(mud, dirt, worthless)

Turkic toprak dirt, earthen
The -ge suffix is an ancient Turkic suffix (Clauson) .

3.b) Chuvash lapra kir, çamur[Paasonen08:83];
(dirt, mud)
It looks like Chuvash retains both versions. It looks like the word for
"earth" in Turkic should be
more like *torpang so that the original root *tor becomes cognate with
Latin terra, Sumerian tir,
Turkic toz (dust), Turkic tuz (salt), Turkic turi (sour), etc. Common
Turkic for "land, earth" is
cer/yet, but the initial *c/y are reconstructed as deriving from *d
(Doerfer) thus der also fits into the
same scheme. This word has been found in runic inscriptions in the North
Caucasus (Tavkul...)

4) Chuvash lapa(stat gürültü ile vurmak, kakmak[Paasonen08:82];
(to hit, push, shove noisily)
Turkic tep to kick, hit, move;
It shows up in various words tekme (<*tepme) a kick, tebre (tepre) to
move, to kick, etc

5) Chuvash lac(ag^a çamur[Paasonen08:82];
Shows up in Turkish as lachka e.g a borrowing evidently

6) Chuvash la?an çamas,?r teknesi, leg(en [Kaz. la?an] [Paasonen08:82];
tok, tegen, ogen
(a trough for washing clothes)

It shows up in Turkic as legen, another borrowing. It shows up also in
words like tegene (a tub, basin)
tekne (trough). It seems to be related to to"k (to pour).

7) Chuvash laja at [Kaz. alas,a] [Paasonen08:82];
(horse. Shows up in Kruger's book as loshad)
Turkic languages (along with some Uralic languages have it as alasha.
The word seems to derive from
en/in (to go down), which also shows up in Turkish as o"n (front), e.g.
o"nde (in front of ). The words al/il
show up as "front" (alda, ileri, etc) but as "low" as in alasha, and
Turkish alchak. I derived these and
related them to "donkey", ass, anshe, etc. once on sci.lang.
e.g. alasha, alashang, onos, onager, donkey > doneg.

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=3DBF1AB4.7070205%40mail.montclair.edu&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dalashang%2Bgroup:sci.lang.*%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D3DBF1AB4.7070205%2540mail.montclair.edu%26rnum%3D1


8a) Chuvash lap ova, düz yer [Bas,k. K. lapak alçak] [Paasonen08:83];
(plain, flat ground)
But in K Bashk apparently lapak means "low". But in Turkic the t-words are

tobbe (top)
tepe (hill)
tu"b (bottom)
to"ben (lower)

8b) Chuvash le(pke bas,?n tepesi [Paasonen08:85];
(the top of the head) see others above

9) Chuvash lapka sulu kar[Paasonen08:83];
(wet snow)

10) Chuvash lar oturmak [Soy. Uyg. R. olur, Yak. olor, Kom. Krm. Kumd.
Uyg. R. oltur, Kaz ut?r] [Paasonen08:83];
(to sit, to dwell?)
Turkic tur to stay, to remain, to stand, to dwell
Turkic tu"sh to fall down, go down, sit


11) Chuvash lavkka dükan[Paasonen08:83];
(store)
This means that Turkic dukkan, KBal tuken are directly from protoTurkic
and lavka is not Russian.

12) Chuvash lek as?l? durmak, bulunmak; çatmak, isabet etmek [Kaz. lek,
?lek] [Paasonen08:84];
(to remain hanging, to be found, to hit)
Turkic as to hang e.g. from a wall or something
Turkic il to hang onto, to connect to something e.g. ilik button-hole,
ilin to latch onto something
Turkic tak to hang (transitive)

This last one is constructed like yak (to burn, trans); vs yan (to burn,
intrans) from *ya
Other verbs formed similarly: yIk (to knock down, pull down), bak (to
look), to
k (to pour, see above)
Strangely enough, Hittite lak (to burn), and Hittite luk (to knock down)

(Are the last two Hittite words from IE roots?)

13) Chuvash lere orada[Paasonen08:84];
(there, at there)
Turkic deri/teri "up to [there]"
KBal alayda "there"

It is very strange because I constructed protoTurkic *th so that *th>l
and *th>t to explain these
but in addition to Hittite l-words now we get English *th words, e.g.
lere=there

14) Chuvash les' iletmek, götürmek, tas,?mak [Kaz. ilt, it; Kaz. Tob.
Ba(r. R. ilt; Uyg. elt; Yak ilt] [Paasonen08:84];
(to forward, to carry)
Turkic tashI to carry
Hittite tarna to carry! Another strange parallel.
Turkish tash (to overflow); Turkic tIsh (outside) e.g. overflow=go
outside the bucket

Connected with the scapegoat from Hittite.

15) Chuvash la(g^a kakmak, tak?rt? etmek[Paasonen08:84];
(to hit, shove, make noises e.g. takIrtI)
Turkic toku to beat up
Turkic tu"y, do"v, tu"g to beat up
Turkic tayak stick,

16) Chuvash la(plan dinmek (rüzgar hakk?nda); yavas,lamak[Paasonen08:84];
KBal tIn to calm down, to be quiet, calm

17) Chuvash la(rg^a m?r?ldan, m?zm?z[Paasonen08:85];
(to complain, )

KBal tarIghIrgha < * targa? to complain (Irgha is the infinitive case)

18) Chuvash la(sta(rdat titremek, sallanmak[Paasonen08:85];
(to shake, to swing)
Turkish titre to shake, to tremble
KBal tentire to tremble

19) Chuvash la(ymag^a salya [Paasonen08:85];
(spittle, saliva, sputum)

20) Chuvash le(g^e( kepek, tortu[Paasonen08:85];


21) Chuvash le(p ?l?k[Paasonen08:85];
(warm, tepid)
Turkic tamId to blaze up and many other such words about heat, warmth,
iron-working,
etc. including words with the shift t>k e.g. kabIn (to catch fire) from
apparently something like
*tab.

It looks like *th>l and *th > t.

Perhaps those with knowledge of the present state of *PIE and *PAA can
give me hints
as to the most likely phonetic realization of the *th.

--
M. Hubey
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
The only difference between humans and machines is that humans
can be created by unskilled labor. Arthur C. Clarke

/\/\/\/\//\/\/\/\/\/\/ http://www.csam.montclair.edu/~hubey



---<><><><><><><><><><><><>----Language----<><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Copyrights/"Fair Use":  http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html
The "fair use" exemption to copyright law was created to allow things
such as commentary, parody, news reporting, research and education
about copyrighted works without the permission of the author. That's
important so that copyright law doesn't block your freedom to express
your own works -- only the ability to express other people's.
Intent, and damage to the commercial value of the work are
important considerations.

You are currently subscribed to language as: language at listserv.linguistlist.org
To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-language-4283Y at csam-lists.montclair.edu



More information about the Language mailing list