Fw: [Lexicog] semantic domains

[List Facilitator]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Moe" <ron_moe at sil.org>
To: <lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 09, 2004 6:25 PM
Subject: RE: [Lexicog] semantic domains


> Now that I'm back from vacation, I'm trying to catch up on all the
> 'interesting' correspondence on the lexicography list. Since your
dictionary
> is so small, I wouldn't put much weight on your ratio of
> noun:verb:adjective:adverb. I would suggest using the Dictionary
Development
> Program (DDP) to collect something like 12,000 words and then look at your
> ratios. Bantu languages have almost no true adjectives, prefering to use
> verbs.
>
> I'm finding a very high percentage of multi-word lexical items in English
> and Bantu languages, perhaps exceeding 25%. I don't see much reason to
limit
> the definition of 'idiom' to two or three words. Your example of "be
without
> same thought" is a nice example. Wierzbicka and Goddard have identified
> 'think, same, thing' as semantic primitives. So I would expect that the
> phrase "think the same thing" would be translatable into any language and
be
> understood with the same meaning. Since 'think' is a mental predicate, not
a
> thing, your Embera noun 'thought' is a step away from the semantic
> universal. Although 'have/be with' is also a semantic primitive, I would
> guess that it might not be universal for a person to "have a thought/be
with
> a thought." We can certainly say the former in English, but I doubt that
> everyone can. So "be with a thought" is a second step away from the
semantic
> universal. Putting the phrase in the negative (replacing 'with' with
> 'without') and adding 'same' further complicates it. My point is that "be
> without same thought" is hardly transparent in meaning and therefore
> qualifies as an idiom/lexeme. This phrase belongs to the semantic domain
> 'Agree'. The following is one of the lexical sets that belong to the
domain
> and is taken from the DDP:
>
> (1) What words refer to when two people agree?  agree, agreement, concur,
> accede, think the same, think alike, hold the same view, be of the same
> mind, be of like mind, be in accord, be of one accord, be united, be in
the
> same place, be together on something, be with someone, coincide in our
> thinking
>
> Notice how many of the English examples are multi-word lexemes. I should
> add, 'be on the same page'.
>
> Ron
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chaz and Helga Mortensen [mailto:chaz_mortensen at sil.org]
> Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2004 9:19 AM
> To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Lexicog] semantic domains
>
>
> Ron,
>
> Happy New Year to all.
>
> I checked my Northern Embera/Spanish dictionary (still in Shoebox 4/MDF)
> yesterday and found that it is weighted heavily in favor of nouns (+/-1400
> out of 3200 entries). I have around 1200 verbs but only about 350
adjectives
> and 250 adverbs. (I also have a lot of information in subentries, probably
> not a good strategy.) The Word & Deed arrived the other day and I will get
> the semantic domain program set up soon so we can discover more
descriptive
> words.
>
> I wonder if I have such a low number of entries because the language I
work
> in uses rather many long phrases where other languages have individual
> words. For example, the illustrative sentence in an entry I checked
> yesterday reads literally:
> "Because they were without same thought, they cut out."
> English: 'Because they did not agree they parted ways.'
>
> Now "cut out" I have as an entry (lexeme/keyword) frankly because it
amounts
> to only two words. "Be without same thought" amounts to four words in N.
> Embera, in my opinion hardly appropriate for a dictionary entry.
>
> What limit do you put on length of entry (lexeme/keyword)?
>
> -Chaz
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  lexicographylist-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  lexicographylist-unsubscribe at yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
>  http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>