[Lexicog] Using moccasin, canoe or other words with other Native etymology

[Susan Gehr]

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

I can relate to the sentiment of the advisory group.  I¹m also Karuk. We¹re
from Northwestern California, and sometimes it just gets old when you meet
yet another person whose only understanding of anything Native American
comes from the Plains ­ war bonnets, Dances With Wolves, tipis, buffalo.  So
I¹m thinking the idea is to differentiate ourselves from those images as
much as possible.

But when I gave the éeyxuvik definition some thought, and even looked up the
word moccasin on the Merriam Webster website, I thought myself that moccasin
would be an easier word to use, and there is a long history by local tribes
of using the word canoe to describe the boats that we have always bought
from our downriver neighbors, the Yuroks.

Our traditional houses don¹t look anything like tipis, so it would be a
stretch to use the word tipi.  But the old style shoes resemble moccasins,
and our canoes, resemble canoes.

This thread has been helpful. Thanks Ron & Chaz!

Susan Gehr

On 4/8/08 5:36 PM, "Ronald Moe" <ron_moe at sil.org> wrote:

>  
>  
> 
> Susan Gehr wrote:
> ³it¹s possible to write that kind of circumlocution²
>  
> Virtually any word you use conjures up an image. Ken McElhannon points out
> that Œviolin¹ and Œfiddle¹ are essentially the same musical instrument. (There
> is a slight modification to the bridge.) But they conjure up very different
> images, especially of the social situation in which they are used (tuxedo in a
> concert hall versus suspenders in a barn). However it would take a great deal
> of verbage to adequately describe the form and function of a Œfiddle¹. It
> would be much more efficient to define a fiddle in terms of a violin (or vice
> versa) and clarify the different social situations in which each is used. In
> English we know that there are a variety of moccasins and canoes. The use of
> these terms merely serves to more quickly identify the type of object being
> described. If you use lengthy circumlocutions, the user may have a hard time
> understanding what it is you are talking about. But even lengthy
> circumlocutions are likely going to use words that conjure up images. For
> instance your definition Œsoft leather heelless shoe¹ uses the word Œshoe¹
> which conjures up its own image. In fact I wouldn¹t call Œa soft leather
> heelless article of clothing worn on the feet¹ a shoe. I would call it a
> moccasin. The use of Œshoe¹ conjures up a quite different image. Likewise a
> definition such as Œa vehicle used to navigate lakes and rivers constructed of
> bark sewn to a framework of woodŠ¹ simply sounds silly. Using some other
> generic term like Œboat¹ or Œship¹ or (worse) Œrowboat¹ likewise conjures up
> an image. Each of us has a prototypical image of a Œboat¹ along with a range
> of instances of Œboats¹. I picture a gleaming white fiberglass boat with a
> square stern on which is mounted a big outboard motor. I don¹t think this is a
> better image than the one conjured up by Œcanoe¹.
>  
> So my recommendation is to pick the word in the analysis language that is
> closest in meaning to the vernacular word and add any modifications necessary
> to clarify the differences between (for instance) Œéeyxuvik¹ and Œmoccasin¹.
> An option is to use the classic Aristotelian analytical definition type in
> which you pick the generic term and then add criterial features that limit the
> meaning. In the case of Œéeyxuvik¹ the generic English term is Œshoe¹ or
> possibly Œfootware¹. In this case your definition would read, Œa type of soft
> leather heelless shoe worn by the imusaan in ceremonyŠ¹ But to me your
> original definition Œtype of moccasins worn by the imúsaan in ceremony¹  is
> superior.
>  
> But I suspect that the real problem is not the adequacy of the definitions,
> but the attitudes of the speakers of the language. Your real problem may be to
> educate your users to accept the use of borrowed words such as Œmoccasin¹ and
> Œcanoe¹ in the definitions. When a language has been suppressed or neglected
> or demeaned, its speakers often want to rebuild its prestige. One frequently
> seen reaction is to reject foreign loans and seek the ³pure² language. That
> may or may not be what is going on here. It is admirable that the Karuk people
> have pride in their language and want to promote accuracy and correctness in
> their dictionary. I just don¹t think that rejecting words borrowed into
> English from other Native American languages is a healthy way to go about it.
> A better way is to write good descriptive definitions and include nice
> pictures.
>  
> Ron Moe
> SIL International
>  
> 
> 
> From: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Susan Gehr
> Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 4:19 PM
> To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Lexicog] Using moccasin, canoe or other words with other Native
> etymology
>  
> 
> I¹m working with an advisory group on the second edition of the Karuk
> dictionary, and several of the group members have expressed a concern with
> using words like canoe or moccasin in the definitions of Karuk words.
> 
> For example, the word éeyxuvik has the definition Œtype of moccasins worn by
> the imúsaan in ceremony.¹
> 
> They are a soft leather heelless shoe, and it¹s possible to write that kind of
> circumlocution in order to refrain from using words from other tribes.
> 
> I think the feeling is that we want avoid using words that conjure up
> non-Karuk imagery.  Is that a legitimate way of handling the concern of the
> advisory group?
> 
> Thanks,


-- 
Susan Gehr
Karuk Language Program Director
Karuk Tribe of California
PO Box 1016, Happy Camp, CA 96039
(800) 505-2785 x2205  NEW FAX # (530) 493-1658

Karuk Language Resources on the Web - http://www.karuk.org/
Karuk Section of William Bright's Site - http://ncidc.org/bright/karuk.html
Karuk Dictionary - http://dictionary.karuk.org/


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