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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> ----- Original Message ----- </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "John Roberts" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:dr_john_roberts@sil.org"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>dr_john_roberts@sil.org</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>I note that in the New Oxford Dictionary of
English 'electric fire' and 'gas fire' are mentioned </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>under 'fire' as 'fire' being short for
'electric fire' or 'gas fire'. Under phrases it has the MWEs </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>'breathe fire' and 'catch fire' but not 'open
fire'. (In Amele (Papuan) 'open fire' means 'to light >a fire'.)
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>On the other hand, they list 'alarm clock', 'atomic
clock', 'biological clock', 'cuckoo </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>clock', 'grandfather clock', 'grandmother
clock', and 'quartz clock' presumably as different </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>types of 'clock' but not 'digital clock' or
'wall clock'. And they don't list these MWEs under </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>'clock' as extensions of meaning denoting the
range of the concept. What principles do the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>>compilers of NODE work with for including MWEs
in their dictionary of English or not?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>John - </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Good question(s). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>NODE is a printed paper dictionary, so it
would have been quite impossible to include all the non-transparent MWEs (as I
would like to do in an on-line dictionary), even if criteria for transparency
wree well developed. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WRT the cases you mention, I think we simply made a
mistake in omitting the verb phrase <STRONG><EM>open fire</EM></STRONG>. I
have just re-read the NODE entry for <EM><STRONG>open</STRONG></EM> and it does
not cover <EM><STRONG>open fire</STRONG></EM> satisfactorily, though sense
4 comes close in places. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Terms like <EM><STRONG>electric fire</STRONG></EM>
and <STRONG><EM>gas fire</EM></STRONG> were included in NODE, if I remember
rightly, because a) they are fixed expressions; b) they are fairly common;
and c) they denote classes of artefacts, contrasting with other terms such as
<STRONG><EM>radiator</EM></STRONG> and <EM><STRONG>storage
heater</STRONG></EM>. This might be seen as militating in favor
of including <EM><STRONG>digital clock</STRONG></EM> -- but it can argued or
shown that the head noun after <EM><STRONG>digital</STRONG></EM> is somewhat
more variable (think of <STRONG><EM>digital watch</EM></STRONG>, for
example). If there is a principle involved, it is the degree of fixedness
-- both fixedness of reference class and fixedness of
phraseology.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>However, I don't want to press too far the
case that NODE makes principled distinctions affecting every
detail. No doubt there are inconsistencies. We could have
debated the principles and their application to individual cases for ever.
("This way, madness lies!") The lexicographers were given broad
guidelines (many of which are explained in the front matter) and they did their
best to implement them while working under severe constraints of time and
space.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cheers, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Patrick</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
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