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<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I
think at least for the cow/bull entry in English, the dictionary should give
examples of what sort of species the words apply to. Many native English
speakers are not aware that a male whale is a bull and a female a cow. My
American Heritage Dictionary 3 gives:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>1a. An
adult male bovine mammal.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>1b.
The uncastrated adult male of domestic cattle.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>1c.
The male of certain other large animals, such as the alligator, elephant, or
moose.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>These
three seem good to me. 1a gives the most common reading. 1b tells the reader
that once castrated, a bull is not a bull (though 1a would include it). And 1c
gives breadth, though I think whale should be included as well because people
probably won't think of sea mammals as fitting into 1c.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
entry then goes on to give other meanings of bull, such as a large person; an
optimist, etc. You couldn't include the word bull in a dictionary and only these
latter meanings without the basic 1a-c meanings. That would confuse the
reader.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>As for
Japanese, you just put the word for male/female together with the name of the
animal (o-ushi for bull, mesu-ushi for cow), and the words do not have
additional meanings, so I can imagine in Japanese, inclusion of these in a
monolingual dictionary would be for completeness rather than edification of the
reader.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Thus I
guess I can see Phillippe Humblé's point for not including bull/cow in a
Japanese monolingual dictionary, but not an English monolingual
one.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>But
surely it is not the job of the lexicographer to decide whether to include such
basic words. (This is different from selecting words to include based
on their frequency of use.) What may seem obvious to one lexicographer may
not be so to the public at large. And excluding some such words would cause
distress for people who need help with such words, such as those speaking a
different dialect, children needing to know whether bull has one l or two, and
people wanting other information such as the etymology.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Benjamin Barrett</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=640030720-09032004> </SPAN>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
cce [mailto:humble@cce.ufsc.br] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, 09 March 2004 1:22
AM<BR><B>To:</B> lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[Lexicog] circular definitions<BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">Wouldn’t it be that the
question underlying this whole issue is that we don’t really know what a
monolingual dictionary is for? Apart from the evident answers, I mean. We
obviously don’t know all the words in our own language and occasionally we
stumble on a word we don’t understand. Personally, I have two mother tongues,
Dutch and French, and every once in a while I have to look up a word I don’t
know. <SPAN class=GramE>More in French than in Dutch, because I read more
literature in French.</SPAN> But, on the whole, I hardly ever use the Robert
or the Van Dale. But in any case, I would never look up a word like ‘cow’ or
‘bull’ in a monolingual dictionary, not in Dutch or French<SPAN
class=GramE>,<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>for</SPAN> obvious
reasons, and not in any other foreign language, because in that case, Japanese
for instance, I would not understand a monolingual dictionary and I would only
understand it if the learning of words like ‘cow’ and ‘bull’ would be so far
away I couldn’t even remember how and when I learned them. So, in Japanese, I
use a bilingual dictionary. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><SPAN
class=640030720-09032004><snipped throughout></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">So the definition of what a
‘cow’ and a ‘bull’ is, is an existential question, not first a lexicographical
one. <SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><SPAN
class=640030720-09032004> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-ansi-language: EN-GB">I can’t imagine a concrete
dictionary user looking up a word like ‘cow’ in a monolingual dictionary just
to know what a ‘cow’ is. A situation like, for instance, someone coming across
the word ‘cow’ in a sentence like “</SPAN><STRONG><B
style="mso-ansi-font-weight: normal"><I><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: italic; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold">Did
you know that cows love cereal, just like
you?”</SPAN></FONT></I></B></STRONG><STRONG><B
style="mso-ansi-font-weight: normal"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold; mso-bidi-font-style: italic">
wondering what a ‘cows’ would be? <SPAN class=640030720-09032004><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> </FONT></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG></FONT></P><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><STRONG><B
style="mso-ansi-font-weight: normal"><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><SPAN
class=640030720-09032004>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><B style="mso-ansi-font-weight: normal"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold; mso-bidi-font-style: italic"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><STRONG><B style="mso-ansi-font-weight: normal"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-weight: bold; mso-bidi-font-style: italic">Philippe
<SPAN class=SpellE>Humblé</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG><SPAN lang=EN-GB
style="mso-ansi-language: EN-GB"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT> </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></B></STRONG></FONT><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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