<html><body>
<DIV>
<DIV>Hi Ken,</DIV>
<DIV>I think Kim is right. It can very well be two senses and to be sure it is good to check with the native speakers. I'm helping with dictionaries 9 different languages from DR Congo and I was amazed to see the differences between how I would deal with a word (after they have translated it for me) and how their perspective was...very different.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Besides if you would categorize them according to Semantic Domains they would fall in two very different ones. Not that this would always help determine if different of same senses but would put them in different contexts that gives you different perspectives.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Cami Borza<BR><BR><B><I>Kim Blewett <kim_blewett@sil.org></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">
<META content=Word.Document name=ProgId>
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1106" name=GENERATOR>
<META content="Microsoft Word 9" name=Originator><LINK href="cid:filelist.xml@01C40505.5C814E90" rel=File-List>
<STYLE>@font-face {
font-family: SimSun;
}
@font-face {
font-family: @SimSun;
}
@page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; mso-paper-source: 0; }
P.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
LI.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
DIV.MsoNormal {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
P.MsoAutoSig {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
LI.MsoAutoSig {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
DIV.MsoAutoSig {
FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-language: ZH-CN; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: SimSun
}
SPAN.EmailStyle15 {
COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial
}
DIV.Section1 {
page: Section1
}
</STYLE>
<DIV><SPAN class=905301202-10032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I'm certainly no expert, but it seems to me that this example could possibly be truly two senses in the native speaker's underlying grid, even though it seems not, to an outsider. Could you test with other speakers of the language?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=905301202-10032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=905301202-10032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Kim Blewett</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Kenneth Keyes [mailto:ken_keyes@sil.org]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 8 March 2004 1:03 AM<BR><B>To:</B> Lexicographylist@Yahoogroups. Com (E-mail)<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Lexicog] sense groupings<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ">Dear all, </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ">I have a question about sense groupings. In the following example, my national colleague and I have a disagreement over whether different spheres/semantic domains in which a word is used constitute separate sense groups. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>What do you all think about it? Is it one sense group or two?</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN lang=KZ style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ; mso-ansi-language: KZ">\lx епті</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN lang=KZ style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: KZ; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-ansi-language: KZ"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black">\ps adj</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black">\sn 1</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black">\ge skillful, wise, apt (of trades)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black">\sn 2 </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black">\ge skillful, cunning (of social skills)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN lang=DE style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-ansi-language: DE">\gd anstellig, gewandt, geschickt</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN lang=DE style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-ansi-language: DE"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE">\nt This seems to be one meaning, but I question whether two senses are necessary (KCK)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE">Looking forward to your comments with interest. </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE">Ken Keyes</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN lang=DE style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-ansi-language: DE"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN lang=DE style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-ansi-language: DE"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=3><SPAN lang=DE style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-ansi-language: DE"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=black size=3><SPAN lang=DE style="FONT-SIZE: 11.5pt; COLOR: black; mso-fareast-language: DE; mso-color-alt: windowtext; mso-ansi-language: DE"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN class=EmailStyle15><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2><SPAN lang=DE style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-ansi-language: DE; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
Yahoo! Search - <a href="http://search.yahoo.com/?fr=ad-mailsig-home">Find what you’re looking for faster.</a>
<br>
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
<td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor</b></font></td>
</tr>
<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
<td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/SIG=12c3qehfa/M=266841.4700596.5858952.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1709195911:HM/EXP=1079180749/A=2026346/R=0/SIG=12473cbsu/*http://www.lifescapeinc.com/picasa/landing.php?capid=314&caId=2343" alt=""><img src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/li/lifescape/allinone_300x250_003.gif" alt="click here" width="300" height="250" border="0"></a></td></tr></table> </td>
</tr>
<tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=266841.4700596.5858952.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=:HM/A=2026346/rand=879601161"></td></tr>
</table>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
<br>
<tt><hr width="500">
<b>Yahoo! Groups Links</b><br>
<ul>
<li>To visit your group on the web, go to:<br><a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist/">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist/</a><br>
<li>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br><a href="mailto:lexicographylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe">lexicographylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br>
<li>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.
</ul>
</tt>
</br>
<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
</body></html>