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<DIV><SPAN class=921430221-22032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>I like
Rich's discussion, but the semantics of these words gets even better.
We have positionals, which in English come out as 'be + preposition' (he's at
home, he's in the shower, he's on the bed), or simply prepositions in some sort
of clause (he just stepped on my freshly mopped floor with his muddy boots).
Then we have linear movement verbs, some incorporating manner (walk, run), and
some incorporating starting and ending points (come, go, arrive), and all sorts
of other fun stuff (bang around). These movement verbs can be intransitive,
transitive (send, push), or bitransitive (give) with all sorts of fun
extras (accompany, follow). Then there are the verbs with multiple objects
(arrange, gather, scatter) with all sorts of fun extras (join, tie). We also
have directionals (toward, from, upwards, north), which can get incorporated
(rise, raise). Most of these involve movement from one place to another. But the
words we are interested in belong to a large group of non-linear movement verbs
that still involve movement, but the object doesn't move from one place to
another. In this class we have verbs like 'shake, oscillate, swing (back and
forth), rotate'.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=921430221-22032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=921430221-22032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The
verbs we have been discussing belong to the domain I call 'Posture' (sit,
stand, lie, lean). But here we have two lexical sets, those that indicate a
static state resulting from the movement, and those that involve the movement
itself. So a person can be sitting, or he can sit down. FrameNet has two
corresponding frames 'Change posture' and 'Posture'. Although the FrameNet
people don't say so, I believe 'Change posture' inherits from
the</FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=921430221-22032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2> large frame 'Change of state scenario', which in turn has the
subframe 'Change of state endstate'. Prototypically (?) the posture words refer
to human posture. But they can be (universally?) extended to animals and
non-animate things that can assume similar postures. So a person can lean
against a wall, a bear can lean against a tree, and a ladder can lean against a
wall. Presumably animal postures are more similar to human postures than
inanimate objects, so I would guess that posture terms can be easily applied to
animals. At least animals can volitionally change posture whereas inanimate
objects cannot. For inanimate objects we have to have
accidental/non-volitional lexical items (fall over, collapse, topple)
or transitive verbs with an animate/volitional subject 'set (vt), stand
(vt), lean up against (vt), lay (vt)', or transitive verbs with a
non-volitional/unintentional causer as the subject '(the man/the wind)
knocked over the ladder'. When applied to an inanimate object, the
'Posture' verbs must have a secondary sense. Although on the surface 'He was
standing outside the door' and 'The vase was standing on the desk' appear to be
the same meaning of 'stand', they don't yield the same implicatures (The vase is
standing because it stood up) or take directional adverbial complements (stand
up, sit down, lean over). Rich correctly points out that 'The
ladder is standing up' is incorrect. But I accept 'The cup is sitting on the
table'. It isn't that inanimates can't take a locative, it's that they can't
take a directional. However it is probably more accurate to say that 'stand
up' is a phrasal verb that takes an animate/volitional subject. I've already
analyzed 'the cup is sitting on the table' as a positional rather than a
posture. So I would guess that these inanimate subject verbs must take a
locative. The animate subject verbs answer the question 'What is he doing?' The
inanimate subject verbs answer the question 'Where is it?' On the other
hand I really like Rich's analysis of the "predominant dimension"
relationship between the animate and inanimate verbs. Which only goes to
show you how complex and interrelated lexical semantics is. Somebody should
check out the corpus evidence and find out if any of this will stand up :) in
the face of the evidence.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=921430221-22032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=921430221-22032004><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=2>Ron</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=921430221-22032004></SPAN><FONT face=Tahoma><BR><FONT
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> rrhodes@cogsci.berkeley.edu
[mailto:rrhodes@cogsci.berkeley.edu]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 22, 2004 1:02
PM<BR><B>To:</B> lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE:
[Lexicog] sit vs. sit<BR><BR></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV>Wayne,</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>You've gotten a
lot of good suggestions, but ...</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>English<I> sit</I> is part of a three-way system of verbs of location
that are distinguished by the shape and orientation of the object in question,
regardless of its animacy. (This sounds rather Athabaskan.) Various versions
of this are found in all Germanic languages. It works like this:</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><I>stand</I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>object with a single predominant
dimension is located in a place</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>oriented
vertically, supported from the bottom.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>He was
standing outside the door.</I></DIV>
<DIV><I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The vase was
standing on the desk.</I></DIV>
<DIV><I><BR></I></DIV>
<DIV><I>stand</I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>object without a third
predominant dimension is located in a place</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>oriented
horizontally, supported from the bottom.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>He was lying
outside the door.</I></DIV>
<DIV><I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The book was
lying on the desk.</I></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><I>sit</I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>object with three
predominant dimensions is located in a place,</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>supported from
the bottom.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>He was
sitting outside the door.</I></DIV>
<DIV><I><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The cup was
sitting on the desk.</I></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>(You have to say something about the support because if the object is on
a vertical surface or the bottom of a horizontal surface, you are required to
use a verb that references how the object remains in place, e.g.<I> The paper
is *lying on/stuck on the wall.</I> If you say<I> The paper is lying on the
wall.</I> It can only mean that the wall has no ceiling or roof attached and
the paper is lying on the top of it. You can work out ceilings for
yourself.)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Notice that people can change shape. The various Germanic languages
differ in how the extensions of these prototypes work. English, extends<I>
stand</I> to what animals do when all their legs are extended supporting them.
German often uses<I> setzen</I> 'sit' in metaphorical contexts, where English
would use<I> lie</I> (or<I> be</I> or something else).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><I>In meiner Brust da sitzt ein Weh.</I> 'Within my breast
there lies an ache' (Heine poem, trans. by Emily Ezust)</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><I>Das Glück sitzt im Gehirn</I>. 'Happiness resides in the
brain.' (Title of a recent research article, my
translation)</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>It's also worth noting that some locative is almost obligatory, esp. when
the subject is inanimate.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The ladder is
standing *(next to the shed).</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The boy is
standing (next to the shed).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The cup is
sitting *(on the table).</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The man is
sitting (on the table).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The log is
lying *(across the driveway).</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The girl is
lying (across the driveway).</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>*The ladder is
standing up.</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The boy is
standing up.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>*The cup is
sitting down.</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The man is
sitting down.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>*The log is
lying down.</DIV>
<DIV><X-TAB> </X-TAB>The girl is
lying down.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>What does this all mean for Cheyenne lexicography? Probably that there
should be a BE_IN_A_PLACE category as Ron suggests, or better, BE_AT, since
the relevant verbs are all relative roots and the complement isn't included in
the verb form. It just appears that it is sometimes because null complements
are possible.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>This question brings up a good theoretical point. We have to be every bit
as sophisticated about the semantics of the glossing language as we are about
the semantics of the target language. English (or French or Spanish) aren't
truly metalanguages. We just tend to use them that way. A point frequently
missed.</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Rich</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite">Longman's Language Activator puts this
meaning of 'sit' under their domain<BR>'Place', although interestingly they
don't list 'sit' as one of the words.<BR>However I set up a separate
subdomain for 'Be in a place', since PLACE is a<BR>primitive in NSM and a
major section heading in my system. LLA separates the<BR>notion 'be in a
place' into two lexical sets, (1) ways of saying that an<BR>object is in a
particular place, (be, stand, lie) (2) ways of saying that<BR>something,
such as a country, town, building, or organization is in a<BR>particular
place (be, lie, be situated, be located, be sited, stand, be<BR>based). If
you want a single English word to capture this idea, I think a<BR>good
option would be 'located' (as in 'be located', not 'has been
located',<BR>which means 'discovery the location
of').<BR><BR>Ron<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Wayne Leman
[mailto:wayne_leman@sil.org]<BR>Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 7:20 AM<BR>To:
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite">Subject: [Lexicog] sit vs.
sit<BR><BR><BR>John Koontz asked:<BR><BR>> In the Siouan languages the
analogs of the 'sit/set, 'lie/lay', 'stand'<BR>> verbs are termed
positionals. Is that the term you're looking for, Wayne?<BR><BR>Not
really, John. I just needed some English word to act as a keyword
by<BR>which I could extract from my lexical database the intransitive
verbs<BR>which have inanimate subjects and an ending (the Algonquian
language<BR>label is "final", from<BR>Bloomfield). I was hoping for some
simple synonym of 'sit' which I already<BR>have in use for the
morphologically corresponding intransitive verbs with<BR>animate subjects
and 'sit' finals. I suspect that the Sioun positionals may<BR>not be as
morphologically transparent as are the Algonquian finals for 'sit'<BR>(or
'be at'), but, of course, there would be some functional
similarities.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Wayne<BR>-----<BR>Wayne Leman<BR>Cheyenne
website:
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<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><X-SIGSEP><PRE>--
</PRE></X-SIGSEP>
<DIV>******************************************************************<BR><BR>Richard
A. Rhodes<BR>Associate Dean, Undergraduate Division<BR>Interim Director,
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