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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well, in practical dictionaries on synchronic
principles </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I think we can at least draw the line at giving the
kiss of life to</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>offensive expressions that are dying a natural
death anyway.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thus. I WOULD want to include "draw a bow at a
venture" (= make </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>a wild guess) in a </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>big one-volume dictionary, because </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>even
though </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>it's rare and </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>probably obsolete or at least obsolescent it's not </FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2>offensive </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-- so there's no </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>problem </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>about explaining it, which will be
good if </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>anyone ever </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>stumbles
</FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>across </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>it and
looks it up. However, I </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>WOULD NOT include "nigger in </FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2>the woodpile", because it is </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>offensive as well as rare.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Bob Burchfield, editor of the OED supplements, of
late lamented </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>memory, received death threats, you know, over the
definition </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>of "jew" as a verb meaning "to drive a hard bargain
with, or cheat"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>in Oxford dictionaries. </FONT><FONT
face=Arial size=2>It was in most ordinary </FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2>English
dicts. of the </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1960s and 70s, I think, </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>both British and American. But the
expression </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>is now completely obsolete</FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2> (Isn't it?)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Maybe even by discussing it we are in danger of
reviving it. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Patrick</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wayne_leman@sil.org href="mailto:wayne_leman@sil.org">Wayne Leman</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com">lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 22, 2005 5:21
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Lexicog] stereotypical beliefs
and lexicography</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Where do we draw the line, Fritz? My own thinking
on the matter is that we do not draw the line. My preference for lexicography
is to be exhaustive, and I prefer that for dictionaries also. But I believe we
can mark rascist entries as being rascist, vulgar entries as vulgar,
xenophobic entries as xenophobic, etc. If a term or phrase is used in a
rascist manner by speakers of a language, that fact is part of its lexical
information and deserves to be in a dictionary.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-----<BR>Wayne Leman<BR><A
href="http://committed.to/fieldtesting">http://committed.to/fieldtesting</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005></SPAN>W<SPAN class=890371717-22022005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3>ayne and
Thapelo,</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=890371717-22022005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3>Where do we draw the line? If we have a
politically correct dictionary, </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>certain entries will be marked sexist, racist, or
homophobic or not even</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>be mentioned. Of course, there are dictionaries of
certain subcultures,</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>slang or argot
dictionaries.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>But if we want to produce a GENERAL dictionary for
the whole population</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>of an ethnic group, where do we draw the line about
what to include and/</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>or what to mark as slang etc.? The "positive social
role" you are talking </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>about, Wayne, cannot consist of
expunging </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=890371717-22022005>unwanted words and
expressions</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>("unwanted" by dictionary-makers who have a certain
political or whatever </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=890371717-22022005>agenda; impartiality does not
really exist in these matters, as far I am</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>concerned).</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>Certain great books (the Bible) or authors
(Shakespeare) have enriched </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>the vocabulary of English enormously. Can biassed
dictionary-makers </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>expurgate </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=+0><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=890371717-22022005>the English language
because such and such expressions are </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>from the </SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=+0><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=890371717-22022005>Bible or from a
"white dead male" (Shakespeare)? A certain </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=890371717-22022005>Thomas <I>Bowdler</I>, an
editor in Victorian times tried to rewrite Shakespeare,
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>removing all profanity so as not to offend the
</SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>sensibilities of the audiences
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>of his day (hence the term "to bowdlerize"). It did
not work.</DIV></SPAN></FONT></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>Thapelo, can you tell me more about Terry
Eagleton's position in the</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>chapter of "Literary
Theory"?</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=+0><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=890371717-22022005>Fritz Goerling</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=890371717-22022005>
<P></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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