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<DIV>In Setswana you would have "<EM><STRONG>O digile pena</STRONG>"</EM> - [you dropped the/a pen]. A pen dropped [<EM><STRONG>Pena e ole</STRONG></EM>] would suggest that the pen is not in anyone's care, or no one is responsible for dropping it - it fell on its own.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thapelo<BR><BR><BR><B><I>"Dr. Hayim Y. Sheynin" <hsheynin@gratz.edu></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><BR>Dear Mike,<BR><BR>Russian and Hebrew languages have the same way to express<BR>"You dropped your pen" as English and German. So in this particular <BR>aspect they are similar to English and German, even it is widely known,<BR>that in most of other aspects they are quite different languages.<BR>The question here is not merely linguistic, but a stylistic one,<BR>which languages prefer passive constructions and in what particular <BR>circumstances. <BR>Sometimes it is also a question of semantics. Consider Cesars' locution "Alea jacta est." (the die is cast).The Latin language allows to say "Jeci aleam." (I've cast the die), but it was important to stress the fact that the die is cast, and there is no a way back. <BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR>Hayim Y. Sheynin<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: Mike_Cahill@sil.org [mailto:Mike_Cahill@sil.org] <BR>Sent: ג 08 מרץ 2005 09:46<BR>To:
lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com<BR>Subject: [Lexicog] accusatory observation?<BR><BR><BR>Hi all,<BR>This is only marginally related to lexicography, but then we've had some<BR>marginal discussions before...<BR><BR>Someone wrote to me:<BR><BR>He (the teacher had one activity for us (the class) in which he dropped<BR>a pen, and then he<BR>asked us what we would say to him. ("You dropped your pen") Then he<BR>asked<BR>anyone who spoke another language how they would say it in another<BR>language,<BR>and what the direct translation was. (Usually "the pen dropped"). He<BR>said<BR>that only in English and in German you would say "You dropped the pen",<BR>and<BR>that ALL OTHER LANGUAGES would say "the pen dropped". He then went on<BR>to<BR>say that we can learn things about the culture from the way we say<BR>things,<BR>and had us come up with words to describe the two types of cultures<BR>represented by these two phrases. The majority of responses had English<BR><BR>speakers being
accusatory, or some other unsavory adjective, and the<BR>other<BR>speakers being much more polite and sensitive.<BR><BR>Anytime someone claims a universal, my tendency is to say "Oh I bet I can<BR>find a counterexample." So my question to those of you who are native<BR>speakers of something other than English or German, what is the most<BR>NATURAL way to make an observation of someone dropping something, to call<BR>that person's attention to it? Not what is possible, but the most common<BR>way of saying it. Facts first, then interpretation...<BR><BR>Mike Cahill<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Yahoo! Groups Links<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> <BR>What would our lives be like without music, dance, and theater?<BR>Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good!<BR>http://us.click.yahoo.com/TzSHvD/SOnJAA/79vVAA/HKE4lB/TM<BR>--------------------------------------------------------------------~->
<BR><BR><BR>Yahoo! Groups Links<BR><BR><*> To visit your group on the web, go to:<BR>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lexicographylist/<BR><BR><*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<BR>lexicographylist-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<BR><BR><*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:<BR>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#00007f><STRONG>Thapelo Otlogetswe <BR></STRONG></FONT><FONT color=#00007f>Information Technology Research Institute</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#00007f>University of Brighton </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#00007f>Lewes Road, Brighton <BR>BN2 4GJ, <STRONG>England</STRONG> <BR></FONT><FONT color=#444f75>Tel: (+44) 1273 642912 (office) <BR><FONT color=#00007f> </FONT>(+44) 1273 642908 (fax) <BR></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>http://www.itri.brighton.ac.uk/~Thapelo.Otlogetswe/</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV><p>
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