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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Dear Fritz,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>One small correction for Russian example:
while semantically Russian “<span class=SpellE>rodina</span>” and “<span
class=SpellE>otechestvo</span>” are identical, their use and etymology
differ.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Etymologically “<span class=SpellE>rodina</span>”
stems from the verb “<span class=SpellE>rodit</span>’ ” and
as such means the country of birth (very much alike French </span></font><font
size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:blue'>"le pays natal",<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Latin: terra <span class=SpellE>natalis</span>
or Dutch: "<span class=SpellE>geboortestreek</span>"; Russian “<span
class=SpellE>otechestvo</span>” stems from “<span class=SpellE>otec</span>”
[c=<span class=SpellE>tz</span>] (father), and as such is || patria. Nevertheless
the word “<span class=SpellE>rodina</span>” has a much higher
frequency and do not give derived words, while “<span class=SpellE>otechestvo</span>”
is used in most solemn terms, poetry, high style speeches and give derived
words, like adj. <span class=SpellE>otechestvennyj</span> (related to my
country, produced in our country, or [war] for our country. Cp. WWII in Russian
is <span class=SpellE>Velikaja</span> <span class=SpellE>Otechestvennaja</span>
<span class=SpellE>Voina</span> (Great Fatherland’s War). </span></font><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>PS. To go home in Russian “<span
class=SpellE>idti</span> <span class=SpellE>domoj</span>” (like Engl. “go
home” or Hebrew “la-<span class=SpellE>lekhet</span> ha-<span
class=SpellE>bayta</span>” (<span class=SpellE>domoj</span> and <span
class=SpellE>bayta</span> are semantically<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span class=GramE><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>in</span></font></span><font
size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'> locative case (so Russians can explain it as an adverb of direction).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Best wishes,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoAutoSig><font size=3 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>Hayim Sheynin<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName> [mailto:<st1:PersonName
w:st="on">lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName>] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Fritz Goerling<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, June 02, 2005
12:22 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [Lexicog] Equivalents
for German "Heimat"</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:
.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><tt><b><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>Marco, </span></font></b></tt><b><font
color=maroon face=Helvetica><span style='font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon;
font-weight:bold'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=3 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon;font-weight:bold'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><tt><b><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>The
problem with "Heimat" is that it is difficult to translate into other
languages.</span></font></b></tt><b><font color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon;font-weight:bold'><o:p></o:p></span></font></b></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><tt><b><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-weight:bold'>None of
the following Italian words functioning in a similar semantic field are
equivalents: </span></font></b></tt><font color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'>"natio", "patria",
"paese", "terra natia", "casa"</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>French has "le pays natal" (land
of birth), "la patrie" (fatherland), the latter being more a term
which belongs to the national or juridical domain</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Spanish has "patria."</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Dutch: "geboortestreek" ,
"vaderland" (fatherland) , "bakermat" (= cradle),
"tehuis" (at home)</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>
I don't know Dutch, but "tehuis" might come close to the warmth of
the German term</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Swedish: hem = home; hemland or hembygd =
home(land)</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Russian: rodina (fatherland)</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Arabic: el-Watan</span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>
This word seems to have the nostalgic, romantic component as German
"Heimat". It occurs in many Arabic songs. </span></font><font
size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Polish: Translators of German literature
into Polish either paraphrase the word or just borrow it because it is
diffiuclt to translate.</span></font><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=blue face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Fritz Goerling</span></font><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:
1.0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><font size=3 color=maroon face=Helvetica><span
style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:maroon'><a
href="http://www.gemeinsamlernen.de/laufend/heimat/h311.htm#A16" target="_blank"></a></span></font><tt><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> I think there is
no proper translation for Heimat in Italian, either.</span></font></tt><font
size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>
<br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">"Patria" works for the more political
meaning -- country one belongs to</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">and should defend in case of a war? -- and at
least to me it has a vaguely</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">negative connotation because it was over-used
during fascism and it</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">strongly collocates with war-related terms.</font></tt><br>
<br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">"Casa" in the sense of English
"home sweet home" (but, as far as I can</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">tell, we don't even distinguish between
"home" and "house", either -- they</font></tt><br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">are both "casa").</font></tt><br>
<br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">Regards,</font></tt><br>
<br>
<tt><font face="Courier New">Marco</font></tt></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><tt><font size=2 face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></tt></p>
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