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<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>In response to Ron's comments about
noun+classifier combinations,</FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<P>The problem with Kim's solution (below) is that using \se makes it
appear<BR>that iyá 'a' and iyá kap are phrasal lexemes. They are not, if I
understand<BR>you correctly. Also using \se causes each sense to begin a new
line:<BR><BR><STRONG><FONT size=3>iyá</FONT></STRONG> n. stone.<BR>
<STRONG>iyá 'a'</STRONG> n. stone.<BR> <STRONG>iyá kap</STRONG> n.
gravel.<BR><BR>This is not at all what you want. At least it does not
accurately<BR>communicate the nature of iyá 'a' and iyá kap. </P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Actually, this format, beginning each
compound form on a new line and bolding it, is exactly what we want for Rapoisi.
I guess it depends on who your target audience is; we plan to produce a
Rapoisi-English-Tokpisin dictionary for local distribution. However, I don't see
that either of these solutions necessarily implies that these are "phrasal
lexemes." They are forms that need to be easy to locate in a bilingual
dictionary, (1) because the meaning can not always be deduced
completely from the parts, especially for a new learner of the language,
and (2) the correct classifier can not always be predicted for a form.
Consistency in dictionary entries is important, and perhaps an introduction
explaining what certain fields convey/contain, but I was not aware of rules for
how a dictionary is allowed to treat certain forms. A dictionary format should
reflect the structure of the language it's displaying. </FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Our classifiers are technically
"suffixes" rather than compounds, so they're not written with a word
break, but the set of "roots" overlaps somewhat with the set of
"classifiers", which resembles compounding. I have seen languages where the
orthography breaks up phonological words, either compounds or
clitic markers, for ease of reading. Actually, I was not sure, from
Nilson's example, how independent the classifiers in Karo are.</FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<P>Currently you are making each<BR>sense of iyá into a separate
entry:<BR><BR>iyá 'a' n. stone.<BR>iyá kap n. gravel.<BR><BR>This format also
makes it look like these are phrasal lexemes. There are two<BR>possible
formats that would convey the information correctly:<BR><BR>iyá n. 1. iyá 'a'
stone. 2. iyá kap gravel.<BR><BR>Or:<BR><BR>iyá n. 1. stone. iyá 'a'. 2.
gravel. iyá kap.<BR><BR>This second format is preferred because, by tradition,
examples of usage and<BR>collocation are placed after the definition.
</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>This looks good for a dictionary
targeted for linguists, but my feeling is that Rapoisi speakers, or other PNGans
who would like to learn Rapoisi, would be confused by the switching of position
here.</FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<P>However some dictionary<BR>traditions place parts of the paradigm toward
the beginning of the entry:<BR><BR>have v. had, having, has Used as an
auxiliary verb before...<BR><BR>We do the same sort of thing in Bantu
dictionaries to give the plural of<BR>nouns:<BR><BR>muntu n. bantu A person,
someone...</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Your examples here demonstrate
grammatical forms. There is a big difference between these and noun+classifier
forms, which in Rapoisi function as a unit with respect to plural, possessive,
and even can be verbalized. </FONT></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<P>Unfortunately MDF does not have a vernacular field that occurs between
the<BR>initial fields (\lx \lc \se \ps \sn) and the definition fields (\dv
\de<BR>\dn). Some of us have complained about this. There are some solutions,
but<BR>they all involve modifying the MDF Consistent Changes tables or
modifying<BR>the Word document once MDF has processed the file. Neither
solution is easy.<BR>So I would recommend that you put the classifier in a
lexical function field<BR>and label it as a classifier:<BR><BR>\lx iyá<BR>\ps
n<BR>\sn 1<BR>\de stone<BR>\lf Classifier<BR>\lv iyá 'a'<BR>\sn 2<BR>\de
gravel<BR>\lf Classifier<BR>\lv iyá kap<BR><BR>You will get the following
output (or something very similar):<BR><BR>iyá n. 1. stone. Classifier: iyá
'a' 2. gravel. Classifier: iyá kap.</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>The main problem I see with using the
lexical field is with reversals. I want the defs of these forms to show up in a
reversed finder list, for the benefit of language learners in the Rapoisi
community. Under \se I can add a \re field. With \lf, I can't sort out
noun+classifier forms from all the other things that \lf contains that do not
need a reversal entry. (It's MDF that wants to see a \re field under \se; if not
using MDF you could probably make the first word of the \de field appear, or
something similar.</FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>So, I still feel that for some
languages the Subentry field is the way to go, although Ron's comments are good
and have caused me to think things through more carefully--thanks,
Ron!</FONT></P>
<P dir=ltr><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Kim
Blewett</FONT></FONT></P>
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