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<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN>H<SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3>i there
Patrick, </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3>Thanks for your questions and remarks. I answer
below.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3></FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3>Greetings,</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3>Fritz</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3></FONT><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>the
beautiful gender-neutral word "Mensch",<BR><BR>Ah, Fritz, yes -- but how
curious that the grammatical gender of "Mensch" </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>is masculine - "der Mensch". <SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> Grammatical gender in German cannot be
changed. It is</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> totally irregular, and the fact that
"Mensch" has the masculine</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> article does not mean that every
"Mensch" has to be a "Mann" </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> (man). </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff> So when I say
"Mensch" is gender-neutral in German, </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> I mean </FONT></SPAN><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>that it can refer to
both genders.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> </SPAN>Don't you feel that, for the
sake of consistency, </DIV>
<DIV>it ought to be neuter - "das Mensch"? <SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> Good joke. Apart from that, "das
Mensch" is a severe insult</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> in German. It dehumanizes the person
and makes him/her</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> to be something undefinable, "neither
fish nor fowl."</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> </SPAN>Maybe we could start a
movement</DIV>
<DIV>in favour of "das Mensch und die (singular) Mädchen"? <SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> Good joke again. "Mädchen" (girl) is
grammatically neuter</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> but that does not make the "Mädchen"
neuter.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> </SPAN>Or are my
intution </DIV>
<DIV>about this based on the fact that, as a native speaker of English, I
am </DIV>
<DIV>insensitive to the truly arbitrary nature of grammatical gender in those
</DIV>
<DIV>languages that have it? <SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> You are right, at least for German I can say
that grammatical</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> gender is very arbitrary.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> </SPAN>I.e. does the fact that
Mensch is grammatically </DIV>
<DIV>masculine and Mädchen is grammatically neuter bother only English </DIV>
<DIV>speakers -- or only me -- and not German native speakers?<SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> No it does not bother German
speakers.</FONT> </SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff> We
know that a "Mädchen" is feminine.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> </SPAN><BR><BR>Returning to Germany
in 2003 after a 40-year absence (I spent a few months<BR>in Berlin when I was
a student), I was struck by several language changes, for </DIV>
<DIV>example:<BR> <BR>"Fräulein" had become politically incorrect during
my 40-year absence. <BR>Now all women are addressed and referred to as "Frau
X", without regard<BR>to age or marital status. Progress? I think
so.<SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> Not quite. Age stills plays a role. I don't
know the exact age when</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> you start to address a
representative</FONT> <FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>of the feminine
gender by</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>
"Frau" but there is a cut-off age in the teenager years.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> What one calls progress another one might see
in a different light.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> I have met unmarried French women over sixty
who insist on</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> being called "mademoiselle"
(Fräulein).</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT> </SPAN><BR><BR>Considerable
ingenuity is used to maintain gender-neutrality in communications </DIV>
<DIV>like emails, using slashes, parentheses, and word-internal
capitals. So, </DIV>
<DIV>someone wanting to start an email. gender-neutrally with the words "Dear
</DIV>
<DIV>Colleagues" (plural) <FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>will write "Liebe Kolleg<STRONG>I</STRONG>nnen" with a capital I in the
middle </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>of the
</FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>word. The singular of this is </FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>"Liebe(r) Kolleg(in)".
Probably there is a </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>study of all
this somewhere but if there is, </FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial><FONT
face="Times New Roman">I don't know it. <SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> These monstrous solutions you are
mentioning show the difficulty</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> to make German
gender-neutral.</FONT> </SPAN><BR><BR>The problems of using English
"they" as a gender-neutral singular pronoun<BR>(which goes back at least to
the 18th century and the use of which in a <BR>lexicographical context was
pioneered in the Cobuild dictionary in the 1980s)<BR>pale into insignificance
compared with equivalent problems in German. <SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff> You
seem to be well informed. Indeed, they pale into
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff> insignificance
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005>... You can try a google search for
"frauengerechte</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005> Sprache" and will see how few hits
you get as compared with</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005> when you search for
"gender-neutral, gender-accurate, gender-</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005> inclusive language" in
English.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><FONT face="Times New Roman"><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005></SPAN><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff> </FONT></SPAN><BR><BR>And
oh, by the way, another thing that changed in my 40-year absence --
<BR><BR>There are still strikingly more notices in Germany than in England
telling <BR>you that you are not allowed to do something, but now they tend to
say <BR>"nicht gestattet" (not allowed) rather than "verboten"
(forbidden). I'm not <BR>sure what the pragmatic force of this
is. Can you shed any light on it? </FONT></FONT><FONT face=Arial
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> Sure. "Nicht
gestattet" sounds nicer being more in line with a
less</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> strict and more
relaxed contemporary German society. You will probably
</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> confirm that
</FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=#000000>fundamental societal change, as you live in
cosmopolitan</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN class=046072119-23082005><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000> Berlin. I know
"verboten" is </FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000>one of the
sterotypes about </FONT></SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005>Germans insisting </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> on stern
discipline. </SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN class=046072119-23082005>One might hear
the word in the mouth of</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> Colonel Klink,
the protoype of a Nazi soldier </SPAN></FONT><FONT><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005>in "Hogan's Heroes".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> By the way, I get
a kick out of watching "Hogan's Heroes" (an older</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=046072119-23082005> American TV
series) and do not feel offended at all. Have you seen it?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT><SPAN class=046072119-23082005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005> I am interested in your "Digitales
Wörterbuch der Deutschen</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=046072119-23082005> Sprache".</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>-- Patrick
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Current Address:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> Dr Patrick
Hanks<BR> Digitales Wörterbuch der Deutschen
Sprache,<BR> Berlin-Brandenburgische Akademie der
Wissenschaften,<BR> Jägerstrasse
22-23,<BR> Berlin 10117,<BR>
Germany.<BR> Phone: + 49 30 20370 539<BR>
Fax: + 49 30 20370 214</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR> </FONT></DIV>
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