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<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=757315920-01092005></SPAN>W<SPAN
class=757315920-01092005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=3>ayne,</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN
class=757315920-01092005></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=757315920-01092005>Well, not all
words with -ess attached are the same.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=757315920-01092005><FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=3>How about "governess" or "mistress"? Are they
also on the way out? :-)</FONT> </SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><SPAN class=757315920-01092005></SPAN><SPAN
class=757315920-01092005></SPAN><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><SPAN class=757315920-01092005>(</SPAN>O<SPAN class=757315920-01092005>f
course, one would not say "Diane Feinstein was the governess of
California.")</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><SPAN class=757315920-01092005>How about a gender-inclusive word
"gov?"</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><SPAN
class=757315920-01092005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><SPAN class=757315920-01092005>Thanks for your good
explanation.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><SPAN
class=757315920-01092005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><SPAN
class=757315920-01092005>Fritz</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Tahoma><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3><SPAN class=757315920-01092005></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT size=2>Fritz, it is not the words themselves which are particularly
demeaning to women but the idea that such words would even need to be used
anymore. My wife is director of one of the governing units of SIL. She is not
a feminist--at least not in the sense of being a follower of the feminist
movement, but she simply wanted to be known as a director, not directress, or
any other word that would indicate that she was a female doing the job. When
she was chairman of the executive committee, she wanted to be known as
chairman, which is the standard word for someone in that role. She requested
that she not be referred to as chairwoman. The idea that there needs to be
special forms of words when women fill jobs different from the default word
for that job is what is demeaning to many women today.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>At one time in the past, calling a woman by a category name
with a feminine ending might have been a sign of honor given to a woman. Today
it is no longer viewed as a matter of honor, but, rather, a means of stating
that this is a woman doing a job. Many (most?) women today simply want to do
their jobs and have the same title as a man would have for that same
job.</FONT><SPAN class=757315920-01092005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff
size=3> </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=757315920-01092005></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=757315920-01092005><FONT
size=2> What if the man's job title is
"fireman"? ("Firefighters" has already been coined)</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Semantic change within English due to changing roles of
women in society. Once again, language reflects culture. And perceptions of
meaning determine connotative meaning, at a minimum.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>In cultures where honor is still the primary component of
honorifics, speakers of a language need to continue to use those honorifics.
When cultures change, there will likely also be correlating language
changes.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Wayne Leman</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=600393016-01092005>Patrick,</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=600393016-01092005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=600393016-01092005>Why does
"poetess" or "scuptress" sound derogatory to your or to a contemporary
English speaker's </SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=600393016-01092005>ears? I asked
other British and American English speakers who did not think so. What is
the</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=600393016-01092005>connotation?
</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=600393016-01092005>Does
"lady poet" sound better?</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=600393016-01092005>You know German
enough to confirm that it is impossible to refer to a female poet/lady
poet/poetess</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=600393016-01092005>by the term
Dichter (that is reserved for male poets). She is a Dichterin with -in as
the feminine suffix.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=600393016-01092005>And how about
other word formations with - ess like "empress"? I cannot see that this
is</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=600393016-01092005>demeaning.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
class=600393016-01092005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=600393016-01092005>Fritz
Goerling</SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><SPAN class=600393016-01092005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>Patrick
Hanks wrote:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Your point about "mademoiselle" reminds me of
Italian "professoressa", </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>which sounds derogatory to my English ears
(thinking of English "poetess", </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"sculptress", etc.), a connotation which
apparently does not exist for </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Italian native speakers. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
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