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<DIV>To throw in my three cents to the discussion... (perhaps I may find some more spare change in my pocket later... :-) )</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> I don't know the Turkish word, but Kazak(h) has <STRONG>жарғанат</STRONG> [zharRanat] (where [zh] indicates a voiced post-alveolar or palato-alveolar fricative, [R] is a voiced uvular fricative and [r] is an alveolar trill).</DIV>
<DIV> Manchu has <EM>ashangga singgeri</EM> lit. 'winged mouse'.</DIV>
<DIV> Also, what is often transcribed as a <v> in Mongolian (based on the Cyrillic orthography) is in fact a bilabial approximant [w], and is usually connected diachronically with an older /b/ phoneme.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>-Andrew<BR><BR><B><I>Simon Wickham-Smith <wickhamsmith@gmx.net></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span>hi - so I looked up the Tibetan word for bat. I found <I>pha wang</I>, which didn't really help very much until it dawned on me that it might be an alternative or dialectical pronunciation of <I>'phur wa</I>, ie a flying fox. I haven't come across any mythology which could help in this etymological search, maybe someone out there can help. I would definitely connect <I>pha</I> with <I>'phur</I>, which would emphasise the flying thing.</SPAN>
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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span><SPAN class=Apple-style-span></SPAN>In Mongolian it's <I>sarisan bagvaaxai</I>, in which <I>saris</I> means a membrane or else leather (here in the appositive genitive) and <I>bagvaaxai</I> is another word for a simple commonorgarden bat. I can't work out the etymology of <I>bagvaaxai</I> (any takers?) but interestingly the word for a dandelion is <I>bagvaaxai tsetseg</I>, a bat-flower. (Note that these terms are grammatically different: the leathery bat is noun+gen+noun, but the dandelion is noun+noun.)</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span>I also found a Uyghur dictionary and scanned that. There are three words (or more likely three spelling variants) - <I>şäpäräk</I>, <I>şäpiräñ </I>and<I> şipäräk. Şäpä </I>means a sound, signal or indication, which clearly has something to do with the bat's tweepytweep signalling. On the other hand, <I>şäpiräk</I> means emaciated or lean...don't quite get that. I have no idea whether this is of any use, but the ending <I>-räk</I> (or <I>-raq </I>in fronted vowel words) is a comparative marker for adjectives. </SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV>What's the Turkish word?</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span>
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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span>Interesting that the Hungarian bat is a leather(y) mouse. A bit like an effless Fledermaus, perhaps?</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span>What about the adjective <I>batty</I>? I suspect that there is no connection between the Jamaican argot use for<I> queer</I> (which reminds me of the quasi-euphemistic phrase "batting for the other side", clearly pejorative and clearly from the playing fields of English public schools, where I tell you from experience that battiness is not uncommon; but also there's a left-hander I think too, another historically pejorative phrase, meaning a queer man) and the British meaning of <I>crazy</I> (a Fledermaus short of an f perhaps?). Maybe it's because they do things the "wrong" way round - hanging upside down and sleeping during the day...?</SPAN></DIV>
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<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span>Si<BR>
<DIV><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2"><SPAN class=Apple-style-span style="WORD-SPACING: 0px; FONT: 12px Helvetica; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); TEXT-INDENT: 0px; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; apple-text-size-adjust: auto; orphans: 2; widows: 2">
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