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My question was a rhetorical one. I know that 'archaic' and 'old-fasioned' are not interchageable but that's precisely what a dictionary user can sometimes think. And I chose the word 'perchance' simply because teams of eminent lexicographers don't seem to agree how to label it, which in turn means that the boundaries between these notions are somewhat fuzzy. I could try and find a better word, devoid of poetic connotations but it wouldn't change anything. Dictionaries are usually wriiten for average users, not for lexicographers or linguists, and these users are likely to be confused when they see the same words labelled in three or four different ways.<br><br>Filip Rudolf<br><br><b><i>Filip Rudolf <keiefar_66@yahoo.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <br><br>Creative speakers surely cannot be stopped. People frequently revive words which are no longer commonly used simply
because they want to enliven their speech. However, that doesn't mean a particular word ceases to be archaic.<br>Let me quote David Crystal: 'An archaism is a feature of an older state of the language <span style="font-style: italic;">which continues to be used while retaining the aura of its past'. </span>(italics mine) (<span style="font-style: italic;">The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language</span>, p. 185). <br><br>Labelling words in a dictionary is probably the trickiest task a lexicographer is faced with - the word 'perchance' is a good case in point:<br>'old use' - Cambridge International Dictionary of English (1995)<br>'archaic' or 'poetic' - 'The New Collins Dictionary and Thesaurus' (1989)<br>'old use' - 'Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary' (2000)<br>'chiefly poetic or humorous' - 'Longman Dictionary of the English Language' (1994)<br>'an old-fashioned or literary word' - 'Collins Cobuild' (1990)<br>Is 'archaic' the same as 'old-fashioned'? Are these
notios interchangeable? <br>Who should make judgements - how should these judgements be made? Incidentally, the same holds good for such labels as 'spoken', 'informal', 'colloquial', 'slang'... <br><br>Filip<br><br><br><b><i>Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@sil.org></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2802" name="GENERATOR"> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span class="351365320-10022006"><font face="Arial" size="3"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">"Obsolete" might go one step further. I have heard it used as a club (or should I say "axe"?)</font></font></span></font></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span class="351365320-10022006">by people who had an axe to grind and who tried to expunge words from the</span></font></div> <div
dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span class="351365320-10022006">language that did not fit their ideological agenda. Such language engineering usually</span></font></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span class="351365320-10022006">backfires.</span></font></div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span class="351365320-10022006"></span></font> </div> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span class="351365320-10022006">Fritz Goerling </span></font><br></div> <div></div> <div>It might be worth asking how various people differentiate "archaic" from "obsolete" while we're at it.</div> <div> </div> <div>Andrew Dunbar.<br><br> </div> <div><span class="gmail_quote">On 2/10/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Fritz Goerling</b> <<a href="mailto:Fritz_Goerling@sil.org">Fritz_Goerling@sil.org</a>> wrote:</span> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid
rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><font face="Tahoma"><font size="2"><span></span>G<span><font face="Arial" size="3">ood point, Phil, </font></span></font></font></div> <div><font face="Tahoma"><font size="2"><span><font face="Arial" size="3"></font></span></font></font> </div> <div><font face="Tahoma"><font size="2"><span><font face="Arial" size="3">Such a judgment can kill a word. There is also the possibility of resurrecting or rejuvenating a word labelled</font></span></font></font></div> <div><font face="Tahoma"><font size="2"><span><font face="Arial" size="3">"archaic." Who can hinder creative speakers from doing so?</font></span></font></font></div><span class="sg"> <div><font face="Tahoma"><font size="2"><span><font face="Arial" size="3"></font></span></font></font> </div> <div><font face="Tahoma"><font size="2"><span><font face="Arial" size="3">Fritz
Goerling</font></span></font></font></div></span> <div><span class="e" id="q_1095565aa67eb30a_2"> <div dir="ltr" align="left"><br><br> </div> <div></div>thanks Filip, Jimm, I was also hoping to know who was making the judgement of a term being 'archaic' - the lexicographer or the speaker consultant(s) or speech community. <div><br> </div> <div>qo'c (later), </div> <div>Phil Cash Cash <div><br> <div> <div>On Feb 10, 2006, at 1:04 AM, Filip Rudolf wrote:</div><br> <blockquote type="cite"><br><br><b><i><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:goodtracks@peoplepc.com" target="_blank">goodtracks@peoplepc.com</a></i></b> wrote: <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><tt>I use "archaic" as a term that has documented use in past generations, but <br>is no longer used or known by present day speakers. There may be persons <br>who recall the
term however.<br>I use "old" for those terms that may be heard from and used by a few <br>persons, but are not the usual word or pronunciation of a word that is <br>current.<br>Jimm<br>----- Original Message ----- <br>From: "phil cash cash" <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:pasxapu@DAKOTACOM.NET" target="_blank">pasxapu@DAKOTACOM.NET</a>><br>To: <<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com" target="_blank"> lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</a>><br>Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 3:03 PM<br>Subject: [Lexicog] archaic entries<br><br><br>> Hi everybody,<br>><br>> I just wanted to ask for some input on the intent or meaning behind <br>> defining a dictionary entry as "archaic."<br>><br>> Thanks in advance,<br>><br>> Phil Cash Cash<br>> University of Arizona<br><br><no longer
used or known by present day speakers> Well, perhaps <no longer used> would suffice. Forms such as 'thou art' or 'thou shalt' are no longer used but are surely understood by educated speakers. It would be interesting to have a closer look at such labels as 'old', 'old use', 'archaic', 'obsolescent' or 'obsolete' as the the distinctions between them are not clear-cut. <br><br>Filip<br><br></tt></blockquote><br><br><br> <div>__________________________________________________<br>Do You Yahoo!?<br>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <br><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="http://mail.yahoo.com/" target="_blank">http://mail.yahoo.com</a> <br><br></div> <div style="margin-bottom: 1px; width: 500px; color: rgb(144, 144, 144); text-align: right;"><tt>SPONSORED LINKS</tt> </div> <table bgcolor="#e0ecee" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="13" width="500">
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