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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Wayne & Greg, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am sorry I don't have time to read all of the
correspondence carefully. I will just add the following - </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Cob-u SILCharis">From <U>Dictionaries: the art and craft of
lexicography</U>, Sidney Landau </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Cob-u SILCharis">p.107<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><o:p><FONT face="Cob-u SILCharis"
size=2> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Cob-u SILCharis"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">ALPHABETIZATION - Dictionaries usually
alphabetize letter by letter rather than word by word. They place <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cob-u SILCharis'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">power,
powerful, </SPAN></EM>and <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cob-u SILCharis'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">power of
attorney </SPAN></EM>in that order, whereas a word-by-word arrangement would
place <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cob-u SILCharis'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">power of
attorney </SPAN></EM>before <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cob-u SILCharis'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">powerful.
</SPAN></EM>Letter-by-letter arrangement has the great virtue that readers need
not know whether a compound is spelled as one word, as a hyphenated word, or as
two words. Since usage is often divided about compounds — witness <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cob-u SILCharis'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">database
</SPAN></EM>and <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cob-u SILCharis'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">data base,
e-mail </SPAN></EM>and <EM><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Cob-u SILCharis'; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">email</SPAN></EM>
— and is constantly shifting, the ability to locate such terms is of
considerable practical importance.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT size=2><FONT
face="Cob-u SILCharis"><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT size=+0><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"><U></U></SPAN><SPAN lang=EN-US
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial Unicode MS'; mso-fareast-language: EN-US"><o:p><FONT
face=Arial size=2>When I read this, even though it is written regarding English
dictionaries, it gave me the incentive to ask about changing the sort order for
Eduria & Barasano, Eastern Tucanoan, which has a confusing mixup of
word-breaks that we have tried to make more consistent based on meaning (i.e. if
the part separated by a space has no meaning, it is combined) that the speakers
agree with most of the time but there are cases where they want the space based
on the phonetics. This inconsistency caused us to lean toward a sort order that
ignores the spaces or work breaks. Also, the subentry system the speakers desire
also fed into this, but I won't give the details on that. When I asked about
changing, I was told to put a _ where there was a space / word break in the \lx
field and to add it to the sort order properties to be ignored. I am sure it is
not the best way to do it (did some by hand and others in Note Pad), but this
change has caused the Eduria & Barasana to be much happier with the sort
order, though that may be the change in the subentry organization that was done
at the same time. Paula S. Jones</FONT></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT
face="Cob-u SILCharis" size=2></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=EN-US><FONT
face="Cob-u SILCharis" size=2></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><FONT face=Arial
size=2></FONT> </P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wayne_leman@sil.org href="mailto:wayne_leman@sil.org">Wayne Leman</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A
title=lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com
href="mailto:lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com">lexicographylist@yahoogroups.com</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 09, 2006 1:23
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Lexicog] Sort order
problem</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Greg, FWIW, I don't know if there is any
lexicographical rationale for computer sort orders, such as having
<space> float to the top. There's probably some rationale, but whatever
it is comes from computer people. As you probably know, having <space>
and punctuation marks and number before letters is what is called an ASCII
sort, which just refers to the default way that computers sort. Of course,
they have been programmed to sort that way. (Side thought: If people stopping
programming that way for computers, they would be out of sorts, so to speak,
of course!!)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm just glad that we can modify sort orders as
much as we can with some lexicography programs. It would be too bad if we
always had to accept whatever order computer sorted words into.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm not out of sorts now, but out of
time,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>it's time to hit the sack,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>-----<BR>Wayne Leman<BR>Cheyenne website: <A
href="http://www.geocities.com/cheyenne_language">http://www.geocities.com/cheyenne_language</A></FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have not gotten either Toolbox or LexiquePro
to ignore spaces. However I am also interested in understanding the
rationale for adopting a given sort order.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I assume Toolbox and LexiquePro users usually
sort with spaces sorted to the top of the list.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thus the order: child, child care, child
restraint, childish, children.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>This rationale is that entries involving
the simplest form of the word take precedence over others.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have been advised to sort ignoring
the space.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thus the sort order: child, child care,
childish, children, child restraint.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The rationale for this order is that it is
strictly alphabetical. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Another possibility is too sort with the space
at the bottom.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thus the sort order: child, childish, children,
child care, child restraint.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The rationale for this order is that
all morphological forms of the head word take precedence over phrasal
forms.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Is there a preferred rationale and sort
order in the world of lexicography?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Regards, Greg</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
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