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Vielen Dank.<br> <br> Shalom, haver.<br> <br> Hayim<br><br><b><i>Fritz Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@sil.org></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> <!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <!-- Network content --> </div><div class="Section1"> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Dear Hayim,<o></o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Just call me “Bruder” (haver, brother), as we have the same father of faith Abraham.<o></o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Thanks a lot for your interesting cultural and historical explanation of <st1><st1>Israel</st1></st1> as “fatherland” and “home country” for religious and secular Jews.<o></o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Shalom, Haver,<o></o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font></div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Fritz<o></o></span></font></div> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg"> <div id="ygrp-msg"> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Lieber Herr Fritz,<br> <br> For the religeous Jews ha-aretz is eretz avot (the country of forefathers) and they see aliya as return to their historical homeland (seing the Bible as history).<br> For the secular Jews which are the majority of the Jews in recent years this is<br> the historical and cultural fatherland.<br> When Theodor Herzl, a Hungarian Jew, established his theories of Zionizm, -- (he worked at the end of 1890s and first years of the 20th century), -- he first looked for the thecratic principles not because he himself was a religious Jew (on the contrary he was a secular European
Jew of Austro-Hungarian Empire), but because the Jewish masses lived "in der tiefer Religiositaet,<wbr>" and he coudn't propagate his vies other than trough the prism of religion.<br> The relation of diaspora Jews to the <st1>Holy Land</st1> was in great measure similar to relation of so called Volksdeutsche to German metropolia. You probably hear about return of ! Baltic Germans and Volga Germans to <st1><st1>Germany</st1></st1> before WWII<br> and after the war to their country. And some of them were out of <st1><st1>Germany</st1></st1> 400 or 200 years.<br> To ascribe every Israeli who made aliya only religious impulse is incorrect, but<br> some more traditional Jews are doing this because of sincere love to the country<br> of forefathers, and they usually idealize it.<br> However if you share whatever I am writing with a Rabbi, he would disagree.<br> <br> Hayim Sheynin<br> <br> <br> <b><i><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Fritz
Goerling <Fritz_Goerling@<wbr>sil.org></span></i></b> wrote:<o></o></span></font></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 1pt solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><!-- Network content --><!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hayim,<o></o><o></o></span></font></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">When God told patriarch Abraham to leave his country, relatives and his father’s house<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family:
Arial; color: black;">in Gen. 12:1, how is country (erets) perceived by a native speaker of Hebrew? Is there any idea of “fatherland” or “motherland” in modern Hebrew? When Jews make Aliya, do they come back to <st1><st1><st1><st1>Israel</st1></st1></st1></st1> just as “ha erets” (as their “homeland”) or to the land of their fathers?<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Is there any politically correct movement, like in the anglophone world, among modern Hebrew speakers who avoid talking about “fathers” and prefer “ancestors?”<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black"
face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Shalom,<o></o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;"><o> </o></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Arial" size="3"><span><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Arial; color: black;">Fritz<o></o></span></span></font><o></o></div> </div> <div id="ygrp-mlmsg"> <div id="ygrp-msg"> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Dear Ken,<br> <br> On the other hand, what is striking that Latin word patria is feminine. If you can imagine a simile that you country like a mother for you, why patria even it is derived etimologically from pater, cannot be feminine.<br> The same relates to
patrimonia. The problem with gender of these words lie<br> not with the language, but rather with the thought. On one hand, you may explain <br> that patria is the country of your forefathers and foremothers and patrimonia is<br> the property (and legacy) of your forefathers and foremothers, on the other that<br> the roots of these words reflect reality of the patriarchal society, where fathers were the "top" persons. <br> <br> --Hayim Sheynin<br> <br> <b><i><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">"Kenneth C. Hill" <kennethchill@<wbr>yahoo.com></span></i></b> wrote:<o></o><o></o></span></font></div> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 1pt solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Grammatical gender is an insufficient explanation. I find it striking that in Spanish, the
word for "fatherland" is grammatically feminine: la patria. Patria is a Latin word derived from pat(e)r 'father' + the feminine derivational suffix -ia.<br> <br> --Ken<br> <br> <b><i><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">saghar sharifi <saghar_sharifi@<wbr>yahoo.com></span></i></b> wrote:<o></o><o></o></span></font></div> </div> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 1pt solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">The answer to your question would be that in some languages, as in German, the word " language " is feminine.<o></o><o></o></span></font></div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o></o><o></o></span></font></div> </div> </div> <div> <div> <div
class="MsoNormal"><b><i><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;"> Leman <wayne_leman@<wbr>sil.org></span></font></i></b> wrote:<o></o></div> <o></o></div> </div> <blockquote style="border-left: 1pt solid rgb(16, 16, 255);"><!-- Network content --> <div id="ygrp-text"> <div> <div> <div class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I'm wondering about English terms for kinds of languages:<br> <br> Why do we speak of a mother tongue but not a father tongue?<br> <br> Why do we speak of sister languages but not brother languages?<br> <br> Why are there daughter languages but not son languages?<br> <br> Why can we refer to both a motherland and a fatherland?<br> <br> Do other languages use kinship terms to refer to language relationships?<br> <br> <st1><st1><st1><st1>Wayne</st1></st1></st1></st1><br> -----<br> <st1>Wayne
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