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<div>Fritz,</div> <div> </div> <div>May be I used a wrong word when I wrote: "It is also not negative." Probably better would be to tell: It is not pejorative. Why? Because it describes a real life situation about nearly 50% percent of families of Judeo-Christian world. The same was in Roman Empire and frequently in Muslim world. I know that the wifes of both Mao tze Dun and Chai Kang Chek were bossy women. However in Muslim world it occurs rarer than in Judeo-Christian society, because there the wives are always in danger that the husband will take another wife. And the law of divorce in Muslim practice is very simple. If husband doesn't want to continue to live with a wife. He is taking her to kadi and pronounces divorce formula. The wife returns to the house of her father. That's it. </div> <div> </div> <div>Hayim</div> <div> </div> <div>P.S. I think we deviate from our direct goals on this forum. Don't you think so?<BR><BR><B><I>David
Tuggy <david_tuggy@sil.org></I></B> wrote:</div> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid"><!-- Network content --> <DIV id=ygrp-text> <div>My dad used to say that a little incompatibility wasn't such a bad thing in a marriage, especially if he had the income and she had the pattibility.<BR><BR>Do German, Polish, Russian, etc., have anything parallel to the English "battle-axe" for a certain kind of woman?<BR><BR>--David T<BR><BR>Fritz Goerling wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid000601c769ac$f8c10840$3c01a8c0@mai.sil.org type="cite"> <STYLE> v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} </STYLE> <O> <STYLE> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <!-- Network content --></O> <DIV class=Section1> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">Dear Hayim,<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Thanks for your explanation of the Slavic ideal woman. I am familiar with the Hebrew ideal. I just wonder why you say “Hebrew ideal woman”. Does Proverbs 31:10-30 not talk about the ideal “wife”? <O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am surprised to hear that in Russian, if a
husband is “under the boot” of his wife, that is *not* negative. In German we make many jokes about such a marriage, about both spouses, but especially about the man. In <ST1>West Africa</ST1> where I have worked for about 25 years, a good wife is a submissive one.<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">As you talk about criteria of attractiveness of women in a fairly generalized way, here is one criterion about the attractiveness of men which I have heard widely in West Africa: “No matter how ugly a man is, what counts is that he has a full wallet.”;-)<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Le
Chaim,<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Fritz<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV id=ygrp-mlmsg> <DIV id=ygrp-msg> <DIV id=ygrp-text> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Dear Fritz,<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">This is usually positive description of woman who knows how to appeciate
herself and who would fulfill her goals even if they are difficult. This is a Slavic ideal of a woman in difference, let say, to Hebrew ideal woman (diligent, industrious [read laborious] and wise) as it described in Proverbs 31:10-30, even there there is verse 17, where it is said, "She girds herself with strength and performs her tasks with vigor" and in verse 25 "She is clothed with strength and splendor." In the verse 30 it is said that beauty and grace are rather not important, because they are deceptive and illusory, which older people know that this is true. However most of men, both Hebrew [read Jewish] or Gentiles, are attracted to beautiful women rather than the industrious or wise ones. <O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">For bossy woman, who rules over her husband in Russian there is an idiom ! that was already cited by my Polish colleague. They say in Russian "On u neyo pod sapogom", i.e. he is under her boot. This is also not negative. This is just a frequent situation recurrent when a woman has stronger mind or character than her husband. <O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Cheers,<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Hayim Y. Sheynin<BR><BR><B><I><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Fritz Goerling
<Fritz_Goerling@<WBR>sil.org></SPAN></I></B> wrote:<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: 1.5pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none"><!-- Network content --><!-- Network content --> <DIV id=ygrp-text> <DIV> <DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=black size=4><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt; COLOR: black">Hayim,</SPAN></FONT><O></O></div></DIV><O></O> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O>Is this <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">boy baba</SPAN></I> a positive or negative term? ‘Strong’ and ‘bossy’ do not go together for me. A ‘strong woman’ sounds positive to me, while ‘bossy’ does not. So if this <I><SPAN style="FONT-STYLE: italic">boy baba </SPAN></I>is not a ‘Kampfhenne’ (= fighting hen), a German term for a ‘malicious woman with a fierce temper; a
vixen’, what is it?<O></O></SPAN></FONT><O></O></div></DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=black size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O></O><D>Fritz<O></O></D></SPAN></FONT><O></O></div></DIV> <DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O><O></O>Another idiom describing a very strong and bossy woman in Russian is "boy baba" (here is boy not like in English 'boy', and not Tom boy girl, but 'a battle', and there is non-idiomatic parallel to this expression 'boevaya zhenstchina" ) so the literary meaning can be translated approximately as 'warrior woman'. This is a metafor and has nothing to do with war or battle.<BR><BR>Hayim Y. Sheynin<BR><BR><BR><O></O>! <O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><!--End group email --> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O></O></SPAN></FONT></div><!--End group
email --> <div><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <O></O></SPAN></FONT></div> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=1> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <div class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Now that's room service! <A href="http://travel.yahoo.com/hotelsearchpage;_ylc=X3oDMTFtaTIzNXVjBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzIEc2VjA21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw--%0d%0a">Choose from over 150,000 hotels <BR>in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel</A> to find your fit.<O></O></SPAN></FONT></div></DIV></DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: white" width="1"></SPAN><!--End group email --></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <div></div></DIV><!--End group email --></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p>
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